[shrivz]

Originally Posted by navin

In home audio I have found that 200Hz is high as you can go without hearing some really funny effects (phasey) when the axes are so placed. I dont know if the same will apply to car audio with all the reflections that occur.

I'm facing these funny phasey effects for some frequencies in my 3-way car setup too, its very wierd. Just on some transients, it feels that I have a phaser attached to the system. I feel that it happens somewhere in the lower mid-range band.

Any solution for this? Ajay, Navin?

The x-over point between the midbass and midrange is set somewhere around 700Hz.

EDIT: the lowest x-over point I can go to is 350Hz. Will this help?

[Technocrat]

Damn am so much confused now, can anybody tell me if this 3-way is a good idea at all keeping mind the complications listed by Navin & Shrivz?

Also as of today I am really not sure as to how much I can spend on this upgrade. So I still have following two options:

Option 1

- New HU - Clarion DXZ 785 USB (TA, 24bit DAC, USB, better pre-outs, soundstage )
- pair of 6/6.5 inch Woofer at front door with cutting & Damping
- New Wires for rear speakers
- New Sub box(if the diff is noticeable, currently the amp is roughly giving 50% power to sub)

Option 2
- New HU - Clarion DXZ 785 USB (TA, 24bit DAC, USB, better pre-outs, soundstage )
- pair of 6/6.5 inch Woofer at front door with cutting & Damping
- Good Wiring for door speakers
- new amp(2 channel)
- Power Cables
- Distribution block for 2 amps power?
- Another pair of RCA(for 2nd amp)?

As I understand option 2 will cost twice as much as option 1(Not Including HU as that is already bought)

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by shrivz

I... it feels that I have a phaser attached to the system. I feel that it happens somewhere in the lower mid-range band. ...

Errr... what exactly is a 'phaser', @shrivz?

[nitrous]

I think you should run your setup as it is with the new clarion.
Keep saving for the woofer,amp, damping, etc. and once done, go for the kill,then.

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Errr... what exactly is a 'phaser', @shrivz?

one of these?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaser_(effect)

[hydrashok]

Start with Option 1, Technocrat. It will let you move to Option 2 when the time comes, so no sweat there. You'll just need to keep the 4" midbass driver away safely for the time being (if you decide to keep the 6x9s in the back).

The switch to 6.5" midbasses in front will itself improve things by a large margin.

You don't need to change the sub's box, unless it is really needed (and is off specs by a large margin).

You can start on the upgrade to Option 2, when you feel like buying a new 2-ch amp.

[Sam Kapasi]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Errr... what exactly is a 'phaser', @shrivz?

Here you are - you should remember these

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by navin

HU ----> rear out -----> HPF at 80Hz and LPF at 200 Hz----> amp ----> 6"

Too narrow a band for the 6". Both cut-off points are not even two octaves apart.

Originally Posted by navin

Given the speakers you are going to use and their relative placement I would prefer that the 6" Midbass and 4" midbass be XOed around 200Hz.

In home audio I have found that 200Hz is high as you can go without hearing some really funny effects (phasey) when the axes are so placed. I dont know if the same will apply to car audio with all the reflections that occur.

In a 4-way loudspeaker?

Originally Posted by navin

So what worries me is that while the HPF of the High section cant be set to 200Hz (25Hz to 20kHz)

?? You have mentioned HPF range for High section as 25Hz to 20kHhz. 200 Hz falls within that range na? So why can't it be set at that?

Originally Posted by shrivz

I'm facing these funny phasey effects for some frequencies in my 3-way car setup too, its very wierd. Just on some transients, it feels that I have a phaser attached to the system.

What?

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Damn am so much confused now, can anybody tell me if this 3-way is a good idea at all keeping mind the complications listed by Navin & Shrivz?

4-way. Even the midget counts.

[frankmehta]

so you did hop on to the upgrade bandwagon finally Techno???

[vikram18]

Hey Techno,
I've been following this thread wondering if/how to post what I truly feel. Anyway here goes.
A 3-way setup does sound nice, provided the speakers are real good (not entry level) matched with a good amp, HU, etc. IMHO, the time, cost and trouble involved in a "jugaad" 3-way with entry level compos is simply not worth the effort.
So you've got the HU. Here's what I would do.

1. Get better (bigger) front compos and damping done right now. You can also get a better sub enclosure if you think that'll help.

2. Buy a better amp when I can spend on it

3. Upgrade sub and mono last, again when the pocket allows.

The cables can be done anytime you have the spare cash.

If you're truly keen on a 3-way, do look at 3-way compos that come with the XO. No need for Jugaad then.

[Technocrat]

@frank: Well yeah the moment I bought the HU I was on the bandwagon :P

Originally Posted by Hydrashok

Start with Option 1, Technocrat. It will let you move to Option 2 when the time comes, so no sweat there. You'll just need to keep the 4" midbass driver away safely for the time being (if you decide to keep the 6x9s in the back).

The switch to 6.5" midbasses in front will itself improve things by a large margin.

Well thats what I am tilting to now. As for 4 inchers I think I can safely let them be where they are right now, or should I remove them so that they are not damaged by direct sunlight & dust?

Originally Posted by Hydrashok

You don't need to change the sub's box, unless it is really needed (and is off specs by a large margin).

LOL see the images & let me know

Originally Posted by B&T

4-way. Even the midget counts.

oops How can I forget :P

Btw what You, Navin & Shrivz said was 90% bluncer

Originally Posted by Vikram18

Hey Techno,
I've been following this thread wondering if/how to post what I truly feel. Anyway here goes.
A 3-way setup does sound nice, provided the speakers are real good (not entry level) matched with a good amp, HU, etc. IMHO, the time, cost and trouble involved in a "jugaad" 3-way with entry level compos is simply not worth the effort.
So you've got the HU. Here's what I would do.

1. Get better (bigger) front compos and damping done right now. You can also get a better sub enclosure if you think that'll help.

2. Buy a better amp when I can spend on it

3. Upgrade sub and mono last, again when the pocket allows.

The cables can be done anytime you have the spare cash.

If you're truly keen on a 3-way, do look at 3-way compos that come with the XO. No need for Jugaad then.

You know what, I was planning to call you today(will still do) & was actually expecting what you have just typed. Trust me I too think that way, its just that the thought of getting a 3-way at front is quite exciting :-)

But I agree given the current set of equipment except for HU almost everything needs to be upgraded.

Congrats man. I wish I could listen to your system sometime. I could have got a fatre comparison between the polk db401 I have and your electras.

[Amey]

Although i am no ICE guru, all i can say is that even though mine is a 'jugaad' 3-way, it has been a brilliant success atleast for me.I am just loving it.
So basically if done properly, i dont see why it wont work out well. What i can tell you from my experience is that getting that awesome sound does involve a lot of attention to detail.
For example, remember the overhang in my front doors ? and how it vanished after FG ?

[vikram18]

Originally Posted by Amey

Although i am no ICE guru, all i can say is that even though mine is a 'jugaad' 3-way, it has been a brilliant success atleast for me.I am just loving it.

You're missing the entire point here. Even I love the way your setup sounds, but every component of your system is in a higher bracket and more expensive than what Techno plans to do, hence my reservations. I'd be the first person to suggest duplicating your system provided the SAME equipment is going in! Your setup sounds the way it does because the Luccents are far better than the Electras and the Steg is not a run-of-the-mill amp!

A good 3-way is definitely more than just attention to detail. In the end, simply because it is a 3-way will not make entry level components sound like flagship components!
I simply don't think it's worth going through all the trouble with the Electras running off his existing amp! I honestly think he'd be better off with a regular (read bigger midbass) 2-way component setup comprising Electras and then saving his money for an amp upgrade in the future.

I honestly don't see a 3-way setup with Electras sounding phenomenally better than a 2-way setup using Electras.

Originally Posted by vikram18

IMHO, the time, cost and trouble involved in a "jugaad" 3-way with entry level compos

All I meant was, if you have to do "jugaad", do it with better equipment!

[arpandiv]

@techo this is what i would do if i was in your place.
put in the new HU
Change the sub box.
Switch to 6.5" components.
thats all.