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Old 13th September 2018, 17:19   #196
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

Since a few have been emphasising on statistics, let me introduce some here.

The 8 major Indian airlines currently have a total 588 aircraft (Air India 122, Jet 112, Indigo 182, Spice Jet 69, Go Air39, Air India Express 23,Vistara 22 and Air Asia India 19). For uniformity of analysis, the data is taken from planespotters.net today.

Compare this with the US where the four biggest Airline groups alone have 3338 aircraft (American 948, Delta 885, United 769 and Southwest 736).


Based on this alone one cannot come to conclusions that India is better off than US etc.


Second, you have confidential incident reporting systems in many parts of the world like ASRS (Aviation Safety Reporting System) in US and CHIRP (Confidential Human Incident Reporting System) in UK. In India to the best of my knowledge, you do not have a similar system here. In 1995, the various Indian airlines together had a fleet size of around 135 aircraft. Now it is close to 600. Indian aviation is growing at a rapid pace.

Are accident reports not important?. Ofcourse they are and more importantly the lessons learned from them. In 1990 in the crash of an Indian Airlines A320 in Bangalore, there were major deficiencies cited about the time frame by which the rescue services reached. Yet, 20 years later similar shortcomings were reported in the 2010 Air India Express accident at Mangalore. And similar shortcomings were also cited in the 2016 accident of Jet Airways in Goa. It is not relevant here arguing that HAL was responsible for providing Fire and Rescue services in Bangalore or Navy at Goa. The issue here is have we learned something from the past incidents? Looks like nothing much has happened.

In US, the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) publishes the accident reports. But the FAA in turn brings out the excellent resource
" Lessons Learned" (currently under reconstruction) analysing the major issues which caused these Incidents. In India, as things stand, many accident reports do not even have the CVR
transcripts as part of the reports.

Let me conclude this analysis with just one final thought. I do not think any passenger of the affected flight which was the subject of this thread including the person whose efforts resulted in sharing the accident report here in Team BHP will be satisfied with lines of argument or statistics saying that similar incidents may or my not have happened with more or less frequency in other parts of the world.. It is this point that I am trying to highlight and that if the same deficiencies in a particular area (used as an example) get cited 20 and 26 years after the first documented incident I mentioned earlieir, is high time that we do learn some lessons from the past.

Good day.
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Old 14th September 2018, 11:23   #197
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Better, but also very different from your earlier conclusion. Response times of rescue services have nothing to do with the pilots and or CRM of course.

Although, it probably has a lot to do with how well coordinated, organized and competent they are. So it would still be a form of resource management that falls short here. Who is in charge/responsible for the rescue services at civil airports in India? The airport authorities I imagine? Are they ultimately controlled by the DGCA, or does the DGCA only has oversight and compliance verification responsibility?

True that statistics are meaningless for people who have been involved in an incident and or accident. No matter how rare the occurrence, it can have a profound impact on them.

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Old 14th September 2018, 12:22   #198
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

I have been a silent reader of this thread for last few weeks. Enjoyed the views put-up, especially by TKMCE and Jeron. Thank you gentlemen for throwing light on different aspects.

I am really surprised by the cause of this accident. The PIC started the take-off roll with unequal thrust; 40% and 28% (which is a glaring deviation from the SOP), the other pilot too did not notice it, after which they also failed to respond timely.

Aren't these the big mistakes? Why shall it happen when there are two pilots inside the cockpit? And how does the airline run their operations? This reminds me of many famous colleges, which misuse the reputation earned in past and employ pretty ordinary teachers just to save cost but command higher fees by projecting the brand value and posh campus.

And on the top of it, some pilots of the same airline sounded harsh and arrogant when the possibility of pilot error was being discussed on this thread.

I cannot forget one answer given to me by a commercial pilot at Pune airport long long back. When he too was waiting for arrival of the aircraft at Pune airport, I had asked him why the aircrafts are pushed back instead of using reverse thrust. He, in typical informal Hindi, remarked that this is just a ploy by the airport authorities to extract some extra money from the airlines.

Before some bigger accidents take place, the DGCA and other concerned authorities shall really look deep into how pilots are recruited and how airlines / airports run the operations.

Last edited by Rahul Bhalgat : 14th September 2018 at 12:25.
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Old 18th September 2018, 14:52   #199
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

Another new incident.
Air India flight had to be diverted to another airport due to ILS equipment not working.

As per the article, pilots and the ATC did a remarkable job handling the situation.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/65849277.cms
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Old 18th September 2018, 16:29   #200
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayakumarkp View Post
Another new incident.
Air India flight had to be diverted to another airport due to ILS equipment not working.

As per the article, pilots and the ATC did a remarkable job handling the situation.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/65849277.cms
Here is the ATC talk from LIVEATC (put in youtube by someone)



Adding the ground track of the flight path:

A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway-screenshot20180916at8.48.49pm1024x536.png

Last edited by Aditya : 20th September 2018 at 12:24. Reason: Uploading image as attachment
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