[New.Novice]

Well I saw three of them a few days back on NH8 while I was going home. I even took a pic which I thought of posting here. There was a convoy of three, all of them white. And trust me the road presence is undeniable, that was the reason I noticed them, zoomed past them and managed to park on the side of NH8 to be able to click a pic just in time. Let me reach home in the evening and I will post the pic.

[SAE40 in veins]

Originally Posted by Maximum_torque

but the main advantage they carry is the MAXXFORCE 7.2 Engine. Buyers will be in a fix with both these world class trucks being launched at the same time.

I dont really understand how the Maxxforce 7.2 is very superior to the Cummins ISBE which does duty in the Prima. Let's get this right first ... the Prima range offers upwards of 280 HP and close to 97 kgm of torque whereas the Maxxforce offers 210 Hp and about 880 kgm of torque which actually compares more with the souped up Cummins 6 BT AAA (235 HP and 84 Kgm torque) which AMW was using. And also the ALL H series CRS engine has a similar rating. So leaving output alone, the USP which M&M can claim is an additional '500' cc cubic capacity which i don think is a big deal as we've HCVs like Jumbo 20.16 with a 4.7 liter engine , the 6BT and H series (both 6 liter) doing well in Tata and ALL offerings. By this yardstick, the ISBE being a new generation engine @ 6.7 liters should be more than adequate for Indian duty cycles.

As to whether Maxx force is really better is something time will tell, till then let's wait.

[julupani]

For one I dont think there is much comparison between the Tata Prima, which is a much better product, though how good a fit it is in today's CV market is something of a doubt.

Also, I am sure the 7.2L engine will be capable of packing in more punch in higher states of tune.

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by julupani

...
Also, I am sure the 7.2L engine will be capable of packing in more punch in higher states of tune.

I think the Maxx force right now is in the basic cnfiguration.
They can be tuned upto higher spec though atleast upto 300 Hp

[fx45]

came to know recently Mahindra has recalled all of its Navistar trucks sold in India so far due to transmission problems.

My source says Mahindra had wrongly specified the transmission model to Eaton and therefore there are issues as the transmisison and engine is a mis-matched combination. Mahindra has kept the matter in a very hush-hush state so that it doesnt spoil the reputation of the newly launched brand.

My source says Eaton is now charging very high for Mahindra to replace each and every gearbox installed so far in Navistar range as it was Mahindra who had provided wrong details.

All this is source based information, may slightly differ than actual news.

[julupani]

That's a really really big issue. Thank god not many had actually been sold before the problem is caught.

So they are going to change the whole transmission??!!!!

How will that effect the differentials, speedometers, ECU etc. etc.??

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by julupani

....
How will that effect the differentials, speedometers, ECU etc. etc.??

Everything will perform but will show error

[hell_rider]

Wow !!!

That is a MASSIVE goof-up indeed. Wonder how many heads rolled on account of that one. Any more information ???

That apart,
What are the transmission specs for the TATA Prima ?? The Mahindra-Navistar features 9 speed transmission MN-40 onwards(MN31 and MN25 feature 6-speed). Is this true of the Prima models as well for equivalent GVW models ?? Because I *would* consider a 9-speed a huge advantage over a standard 5-speed (which I understand is practically 4-speed, the first one being crawler gear). A 9-speed would mean lower rpm cruising and better mileage, both v.imp important for heavy haulage applications.

Ashok Leyland for e.g. offers a 10-speed only on their highest variant of the U-Truck range. The lower variants offer a standard 5 speed transmission.

Additionally, Gradeability for all MN models is better than AL equivalent models as per specs on respective websites. Still can't find relevant information on the Prima. TATA HCV website is awful.

[julupani]

All Tata Primas today get ZF 10-speed gearboxes, incorporating 8 forward,1 reverse and 1 crawler gear. I think theses incorporate a electronic gear shift assist mechanism. Higher HP models will have different GBs. I think the 380hp+ models have a 14 speed ones, with 10forward, 2reverse and 2 crawler gears. Automatic gearboxes are also supposed to be introduced.As of now they are imported from ZF's facility in France.

Eaton were supposed to provide some specifically tailored models, but no such gearbox is available on the released trucks. Though I think the long term plan is to shift to Eatons once the volumes increase with Eaton setting up a special facility to manufacture high end GBs in India. Other than that you can also expect to see Tata's own 10speed GB1150 on the lower powered Primas. These are already in use in some of Tata's own trucks. I think this is the only greater than 7-speed GB manufactured in India.

As for ALL U-trucks, I think as of now they use the same GBs as the Primas on their top end models and 6+1 GBs from Eaton for the rest of the range. I dont think many 5+1GBs are sold today.

Tata mostly uses its 6+1 GB600 or GB750 on its trucks. The old GB400 or GB500 are pretty much phased out today.

In case of MNAL, something just struck me, wasnt the whole drivetrain supposed to have been developed by Navistar, or was it just the engine??

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by hell_rider

Ashok Leyland for e.g. offers a 10-speed only on their highest variant of the U-Truck range. The lower variants offer a standard 5 speed transmission.

U- Trucks are offered only with either 6(+1) speed or 9(+1) speed Gearbox only. Here U-2523 Tipper and U-4923 Tractor are with 9 speed and the rest are with 6 speed.

Originally Posted by hell_rider

Additionally, Gradeability for all MN models is better than AL equivalent models as per specs on respective websites...

On similar grounds for tippers gradeability are:

MN-25 (210HP) - 32.5%
U-2523 (225HP) - 46.3%

MN-31 (210HP) - 22.5%
U-3123 (225HP) - 33.5%
Just for info

[hell_rider]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

U- Trucks are offered only with either 6(+1) speed or 9(+1) speed Gearbox only. Here U-2523 Tipper and U-4923 Tractor are with 9 speed and the rest are with 6 speed.



On similar grounds for tippers gradeability are:

MN-25 (210HP) - 32.5%
U-2523 (225HP) - 46.3%

MN-31 (210HP) - 22.5%
U-3123 (225HP) - 33.5%
Just for info

yep. Thanks Ash ley, for the correction on the transmission.

But the U-3123 is a tipper, whereas the MN-31 is a tractor, is it not ??

The equivalent for the MN-31 would be either :
U-3518 - 180hp, Gradeability - 14.40%
U-4023 - 225 hp, Gradeability - 14.70%
U-4923 - 225hp, Gradeability - 21%

as against the
MN-31 - 210 hp, Gradeability - 22.5%.

Please correct me if wrong. Just compared specs available on the respective web-sites.

[julupani]

@hell_rider

Well, Ashley made the mistake of comparing the gradeability of tippers to rigids, which you have very correctly pointed out.

But you have made the mistake of comparing a rigid to a tractor. A tractor almost always has lower gradeability, unless you heavily load up the rear axles.

The correct competition for the MN31 are the Tata LPT3118c, the AMW 3118 and the ALL 3121 and 3118.

[hell_rider]

Julupani,

I incorrectly regarded the MN-31 as a tractor too in my comparison.

Your point about tractors always having lower gradeability is noted.

Thanks.

[hell_rider]

Whats the front suspension spec for the Navistar ?? Is it the same across all the entire range ?? The AL U-Truck cabin is "fully suspended" per specs.

Also whats the price differential between the BS-II, BS-III and BS-IV options on the Navistar models ??

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by hell_rider

Whats the front suspension spec for the Navistar ?? Is it the same across all the entire range ?? The AL U-Truck cabin is "fully suspended" per specs.

I am sure you are not confusing between cabin suspension and Suspension at the axle.
U - Trucks are fully floating / suspended and non tiltable, where are in MN its not fully suspended but its tiltable.

Originally Posted by hell_rider

Also whats the price differential between the BS-II, BS-III and BS-IV options on the Navistar models ??

There is no BS II / BS IV models currently on sale. Price difference should be atleast 50K to 60K between each of these models.