[neoonwheels]

Guys,

I checked out 1100D at Croma on Sunday. I am very happy with its image quality with the stock 18-55mm length (I clicked indoor pics at night without a flash). The price is 29350/- though. Anybody from Pune knows a place where I could get a good deal?

I decided on 1100 (As opposed to 1000) because - more AF points, more MP and video option. Down the line, I would add a 50mm 1.8 prime and 50-250 canon IS lens.

As I read on the net the 1100 has the 1.6 crop factor. Does that mean it can give me a reach of 400mm for a 250mm lens? If yes, this would more or less solves my purpose of a telephoto lens.

[sukiwa]

@neoonwheels: Malls aren't good place for bargains. Check for Canon dealers in the city in Laxmi road or Bajirao road area.

[neoonwheels]

Originally Posted by sukiwa

@neoonwheels: Malls aren't good place for bargains. Check for Canon dealers in the city in Laxmi road or Bajirao road area.

Yeh, the canon dealer is selling it for 27250 which is 2KM from Croma

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by lucifer1881

It is not a film vs. digital issue. Old school photographers use M mode because in the olden days the cameras either did not have in-built meters or the in-built meters did not work well. They had to use dedicated meters and then manually set those values in their cameras. Use of M mode today is a hangover of those days.

Yes, they do.

No its not a hangover. When you are doing a planned Pro shoot, with reflectors etc., eg a beach shoot with an army of assistants, metering is done using precision light meters.
Evaluative or Matrix metering will average the scene, which is not the intent of the photographer.
so he will go to the model, check out exposure near the face, body etc., then calibrate the reflectors, and repeat the process. In the end after a long drawn procedure they determine the ideal setting and shoot.
However, even professional landscape photographers, often trust camera metering with digital. But they often take 5 exposure bursts from -1.5 to +1.5 so that even if the camera was off in metering, they do not have the issue.
So with cheap memory cards, exposure problem has been solved.

[lucifer1881]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

No its not a hangover. When you are doing a planned Pro shoot, with reflectors etc., eg a beach shoot with an army of assistants, metering is done using precision light meters.
Evaluative or Matrix metering will average the scene, which is not the intent of the photographer.
so he will go to the model, check out exposure near the face, body etc., then calibrate the reflectors, and repeat the process. In the end after a long drawn procedure they determine the ideal setting and shoot.
However, even professional landscape photographers, often trust camera metering with digital. But they often take 5 exposure bursts from -1.5 to +1.5 so that even if the camera was off in metering, they do not have the issue.
So with cheap memory cards, exposure problem has been solved.

I was not referring to professional photo shoots with multiple lights or reflectors. Yes, there are instances when M mode is the only way to go. But those instances are few and far between. The thing is M mode is used more often than it is needed. And that is a hangover from the olden days.

[tifosikrishna]

Originally Posted by shajufx

Couple of shots to judge the output is always required, because all what you judge and predict may not come exactly as it should be. Fine tuning is done through those test shots.

Shaju,

I am not getting it. Camera's light meter is going to work the same way even in M mode, so if you going to rely on meter reading, you can straight away set exposure the way you want.

However, if you are not sure as to what exposure to go for a particular shot, then you statement is true for both Av/Tv modes as well.


Assuming ISO & other variables to be same in all modes,

Aperture x Shutter speed = Exposure Value (Ev)

In Av Mode

user sets Aperture Value
Half press the trigger and activate the light meter
Camera derives Ev and from there deduces the Shutter speed

In Tv Mode

user sets the Shutter speed
Half press the trigger and activate the light meter
Camera derives Ev and from there deduces the Aperture value


In M mode
user chooses the Shutter speed
user sets the Aperture value
Half press the trigger and activate the light meter and camera displays the meter reading based on current setting, it tells you whether the scene will be under/over/properly exposed.

So there's no need to guess the exposure value.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

No its not a hangover. When you are doing a planned Pro shoot, with reflectors etc., eg a beach shoot with an army of assistants, metering is done using precision light meters...

If metering is done outside the camera, then it is a different matter altogether.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Evaluative or Matrix metering will average the scene, which is not the intent of the photographer.

As you know, to circumvent the problem,

Use Camera's inbuilt Spot-meter to take meter reading of the area
Apply exposure lock
Recompose and shoot.

[pawan_pullarwar]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Whoa. You are finding shots sharp because they are small prints. With such a dense sensor, you will actually have diffraction kicking in around F8. So I suggest you shoot landscapes at F8.
The canon lens is extremely sharp at F5.6 onwards, and even at F5.6 at 16mm you will get enormous DOF. Infact the hyperfocal distance will just be a few feet

It is not due to small print, they are equally sharp at 100% zoom and without any noise. I can provide you the original images.

I think, diffraction also depends on the distance of the subject. If your subject is very close to the camera, chances of diffraction will increase, but if you are capturing the image from distance, say 50 meter, you will not have any diffraction at F18.

[shajufx]

Originally Posted by tifosikrishna

......I am not getting it. Camera's light meter is going to work the same way even in M mode.....

Somewhere we are going in two different tracks , I am not good enough to explain whats in my mind, coupled with lack of field experience. Probably I should post more on this when I finish my LKG in photography !!

To summarise what I posted so far: I shoot Manual because I want to learn better and faster. I believe the learning is not complete shooting in Auto modes, otherwise I would have continued using my P&S even today than splurging money into body, lenses and accessories. Once I understand the basics well, its upto me to chose what mode I want according to situations. Let it be any mode, if the images taken are crap, nobody cares if we shoot in aperture or manual

I think I started this M mode discussion, hope we have confused enough newbies and not planning to add any more to it atleast from my side.

[tifosikrishna]

Originally Posted by shajufx

Somewhere we are going in two different tracks , I am not good enough to explain whats in my mind, coupled with lack of field experience. Probably I should post more on this when I finish my LKG in photography !!

To summarise what I posted so far: I shoot Manual because I want to learn better and faster. I believe the learning is not complete shooting in Auto modes, otherwise I would have continued using my P&S even today than splurging money into body, lenses and accessories. Once I understand the basics well, its upto me to chose what mode I want according to situations. Let it be any mode, if the images taken are crap, nobody cares if we shoot in aperture or manual

I think I started this M mode discussion, hope we have confused enough newbies and not planning to add any more to it atleast from my side.

I can consider myself to be in UKG and my humble suggestion is not to approach photography with pre-conceived notion that only M mode gives you full control. I too thought that M mode was the way to go, until I met a popular old man at a track day in 2006. :-) He advised me to use Av and have been following it since then. I started the discussion on the premise that Av/Tv are not Automatic modes and I still maintain my status quo.

Happy shooting.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by tifosikrishna

I too thought that M mode was the way to go, until I met a popular old man at a track day in 2006. :-) He advised me to use Av and have been following it since then.

Same old man kicked my butt from M to A around the same time.

A and S are not automatic modes, it just makes life a little easier. With A mode and EV setting, one can do anything M mode does.

[shajufx]

Guys, specially Nikon fans:
D90 is officially discontinued by the company as on 15th May 2011. Check Nikon's Japanese website, its listed in the old camera (discontinued) section already. News is given to me by my in-laws who are in Japan. You might find the info in their global site as the stocks get cleared from other countries.

[amolpol]

Originally Posted by tifosikrishna

Why should it take couple of shots to get the right exposure, unless you are experimenting? Camera is going to meter in the same way as it does for Av or Tv mode.

This is coz I'm in denial mode of what the camera thinks is best for me. (kiddin ) Actually, its coz I'd have off camera flashes or some other variable that the camera cant account for. Using the M mode and still using the camera metering settings doesnt make sense to me coz you can achieve same results in Av mode.

Originally Posted by tifosikrishna

Shaju,

In M mode
user chooses the Shutter speed
user sets the Aperture value
Half press the trigger and activate the light meter and camera displays the meter reading based on current setting, it tells you whether the scene will be under/over/properly exposed.

So there's no need to guess the exposure value.

If metering is done outside the camera, then it is a different matter altogether.

I dont have a light meter so I use a very popular technique to do this - guesstimate. Sometimes it needs more than 2 tries to get acceptable results.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar

It is not due to small print, they are equally sharp at 100% zoom and without any noise. I can provide you the original images.

I think, diffraction also depends on the distance of the subject. If your subject is very close to the camera, chances of diffraction will increase, but if you are capturing the image from distance, say 50 meter, you will not have any diffraction at F18.

The visible effect of diffraction starts at f8, and has very little if at all to do with the distance. In fact the smaller the sensor size, the faster it sets in. Thus while diffraction may not be apparent at f16 on a 5x4 film, it may just be discernible on a medium format and be very visible on a 35mm film. With sensor sizes going smaller the effects of diffraction set in faster
Diffraction Limited Photography: Pixel Size, Aperture and Airy Disks
Understanding Lens Diffraction

Originally Posted by tifosikrishna

Shaju,

I am not getting it. Camera's light meter is going to work the same way even in M mode, so if you going to rely on meter reading, you can straight away set exposure the way you want.

The camera's light meter always works the same, it is its interpretation that differs from a human. The meter calculates the exposure by assuming that the world is Grey. This holds for most of the cases, but there are exceptions. Those are when the contrast is very high, or the case of a black cat on snow. In such case you have to deviate from what the camera tells you. Details are available on the net.

Originally Posted by lucifer1881

I was not referring to professional photo shoots with multiple lights or reflectors. Yes, there are instances when M mode is the only way to go. But those instances are few and far between. The thing is M mode is used more often than it is needed. And that is a hangover from the olden days.

Once you get the hang of exposure, you will rarely require a meter. When I started there were no auto modes available. You used an external meter or if you were lucky the meter was on your camera, but you had to set the aperture/speed combo your self.

The auto mode makes life a bit easy especially when you are shooting full blast at a moving object in varied light - sports or wild life, but it is not essential. In fact if you have no idea what the exposure should be, then you could be in a major problem if the meter misbehaves (and believe me I have seen a lot of once in a lifetime shots messed up due to faulty meter.
Photography 101.8 – The Light Meter
Photography techniques: Light metering

[sachinj12]

Originally Posted by shajufx

Guys, specially Nikon fans:
D90 is officially discontinued by the company as on 15th May 2011. Check Nikon's Japanese website, its listed in the old camera (discontinued) section already. News is given to me by my in-laws who are in Japan. You might find the info in their global site as the stocks get cleared from other countries.

This comes when I am planning to buy D-90 right after my exams, in a month.


Edit: Can you please post the link?

The archive doesn't list D-90.
http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/discontinue/index.htm

[shajufx]

Originally Posted by sachinj12

....Can you please post the link?

You can not find it in the global site, which is heard to be listing only after the stocks reduce. Here is the Japanese link (will open through Google translation) Google Translate

Click Digital SLR Cameras.

Also see the Nikon Rumors site Nikon D90 is now officially discontinued | Nikon Rumors