[lucifer1881]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

...For example, when I shoot snow, I do not go to M mode, I simply dial in +1 exposure, and let the camera meter for me...

I agree with you.

A lot of people do not understand that in these days of fairly accurate metering, manual is mostly limited to dialing in the exposure compensation. It does not matter whether you use the M mode to set an exposure of -2 or set the camera to Av mode and dial in the -2 exposure compensation. In either case, the aperture and shutter speed will be identical.

[architect]

Originally Posted by bikxsans660

I second, 5k's for a 1.4? Presumably you must talking of the 1.8, which is available at that price. For a 1.4, one needs to shell out around 20-22k's.

Well... you're probably right, I read the aperture wrong.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by architect

A friend of mine bought one for around Rs 5,000/- about 2 months ago.

No, he paid 5000 for 50mm 1.8. A 50mm 1.4 is significantly more expensive

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by bikxsans660

I second, 5k's for a 1.4? Presumably you must talking of the 1.8, which is available at that price. For a 1.4, one needs to shell out around 20-22k's.

+1
The 1.4 is nearly 5 times the price of the 1.8
EF Lenses Lineup - Canon India

[rajb3125]

Originally Posted by lucifer1881

You don't get it. If you are using flash to correct the exposure, then why not use the P mode? The camera meter will automatically compensate for the flash. In M mode, the camera meter will not compensate for flash. It is not designed that way. In fact, the camera meter will not compensate for flash in Av or Tv modes either. It will only compensate for flash in the P mode.

So it is not the fault of the camera. If you are using flash, then P is the mode to go with. Otherwise you will have to set exposure manually. Please try to understand how metering works in each picture mode before you say that M mode is better than any thing else.

Let me see if I understood what you are trying to say. You say you use the M mode. According to you, whatever exposure you set in M mode the camera meter always tells you that it is underexposed by 2 stops. This could mean one of two things -

1. Your camera meter is indeed faulty.
2. You prefer underexposed photographs. This is strictly a personal preference and it is neither wrong nor right. Let us not have a debate on this.

Since you have tried this on multiple Nikon cameras, it is safe to assume that the camera meter is not faulty. Perhaps point number 2 holds in your case.

Its neither #1 or #2.

You are correct in saying that meter will only take flash into account in P mode. I am not going to write a long explanation on how and why M mode is best, but I will say one thing. When one is shooting any kind of wedding, it can be a Canikon 1100D/D3100 or 1Ds3/D3x/1D4/D3s, one WILL come out with perfectly exposed images without highlight clipping while using M mode. Av/Tv/P mode fail, simple as that.

Infact I would go as far as to say, that M mode gives highest %age of perfectly exposed images, only issue I experience is flash recycling times which are somewhat reduced by external battery packs.

Originally Posted by shajufx

Thats very true, I have been trying to nail the 'clipping' issue for quite sometime even in the normal lighting conditions, so its now a habit to try underexposure first, mainly because we can correct the RAW data easily than overexposed files. Flash usage is anyway asking for underexposure (or higher shutter speed), specially if its fired in full power. Strobist techniques are totally different world to master, I just started experimenting.

Learn and practise Sunny16 and keep the camera in M mode with flash raised high and highlight clipping will never show its ugly head. Oh and make sure you have double the MFD.

[VW2010]

WILL come out with perfectly exposed images without highlight clipping while using M mode. Av/Tv/P mode fail, simple as that.

I would agree if it was just Canon. I find the canon flashes to be most erratic compared to Nikon. Nikon flashes are far more accurate compared to canon. One thing i wont trust is letting the camera calculate the exposure with a flash through the lens.

But agree to the fact that M mode is the best. Even better is to have both the camera and the flash in M mode. Gives complete control

[shajufx]

Originally Posted by rajb3125

.....M mode gives highest %age of perfectly exposed images.......
Learn and practise Sunny16 and keep the camera in M mode with flash raised high and highlight clipping will never show its ugly head. Oh and make sure you have double the MFD.

I should happily agree to that fact because the %age of my keepers increased from the day I moved to M learning. I will surely try the Sunny16 rule with more attention. Flash is mostly used in the bounce mode, so thats not a worry for me. About your MFD suggestion, its not very clear to me. Did you mean minimum focus distance ? Could you clarify what you meant by that doubling ?

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by rajb3125

Its neither #1 or #2.

You are correct in saying that meter will only take flash into account in P mode. I am not going to write a long explanation on how and why M mode is best, but I will say one thing. When one is shooting any kind of wedding, it can be a Canikon 1100D/D3100 or 1Ds3/D3x/1D4/D3s, one WILL come out with perfectly exposed images without highlight clipping while using M mode. Av/Tv/P mode fail, simple as that.
.

How do you know what shutter speed or aperture to chose in M mode? you carry a separate light meter, or use the camera light meter to tell you what settings to choose?
If your camera tells you different exposure in M mode, and sets a different exposure in Av/Tv mode, then your camera is faulty. I suggest you get it repaired.

[lucifer1881]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

How do you know what shutter speed or aperture to chose in M mode? you carry a separate light meter, or use the camera light meter to tell you what settings to choose?
If your camera tells you different exposure in M mode, and sets a different exposure in Av/Tv mode, then your camera is faulty. I suggest you get it repaired.

How am I supposed to put it without sounding offensive and attracting infractions from the mods?

Some believe that M mode is the way to go. They lug their tripods in broad daylight believing that using them instantly produces better pictures. In fact, if you are in the mood for a good laugh go to a tourist spot, set up your tripod and try to look all busy. Within 10 minutes you will have a huge group of people clicking away with their cameras. They believe that since someone has set up a tripod the place must be photo worthy.

Better gear or dedicated light meters will not make better pictures. The camera meter works the same irrespective of the mode the camera is in. It does not matter if you select M mode to deliberately get 2 stops of under exposure or dial in the same value with the exposure compensation dial.

Fiddling with M mode makes you lose time - time which could have been spent taking more pictures. If it takes 'x' sec to set aperture and shutter speed in M mode, it will take 'x/2' sec to do the same in Av or Tv mode. And the settings would be identical.

The above tirade is not directed at any particular individual or group of people. I am simply fried with all the half-truths and myths surrounding photography that are all over the internet. This is a general rant.

[shajufx]

Originally Posted by lucifer1881

.....Some believe that M mode is the way to go. They lug their tripods in broad daylight believing that using them instantly produces better pictures.....Better gear or dedicated light meters will not make better pictures. The camera meter works the same irrespective of the mode the camera is in.......

Nobody is arguing on any of these buddy, majority here are learners like me, so taking something from here and there over the internet only helps in the learning process. If there is a mode called M on the DSLRs, its to be used and checked for its potential, if it works for me, its good for me, may not work for everyone. So there is nothing to prove A is wrong or B is right. Every one is trying to get better pictures, so thats the only sole target. End justifies the means

About the tripod, I love to carry it wherever I go whenever I feel it might come to use. Atleast its a relief when I can rest my 5 kgs of body and glass, sparing my neck, and trust me, its a big relief

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by lucifer1881

How am I supposed to put it without sounding offensive and attracting infractions from the mods?

Fiddling with M mode makes you lose time - time which could have been spent taking more pictures. If it takes 'x' sec to set aperture and shutter speed in M mode, it will take 'x/2' sec to do the same in Av or Tv mode. And the settings would be identical.

The above tirade is not directed at any particular individual or group of people. I am simply fried with all the half-truths and myths surrounding photography that are all over the internet. This is a general rant.

Actually there are two parts to the M mode

a) If you have the faculty to get the light right (and most of the old time pros have got it), then setting the aperture/speed combination is a breeze. No fiddling, no guessing, just natural action.

b) If not, then like me, you look at the meter (or suggestion in the display), and then set the aperture/speed combo. This is quite fast.

Auto modes help when the action is fast or the lighting is tricky, but most of the times there is enough time to see the meter and set the camera up. There are times when the camera thinks differently from what I want, and that is where manual mode comes in.

The use of tripod has nothing to do with metering. If your hands shake, if you would like to get the exact scene and wait for the light to become "just right", then you set up the camera on the tripod and shoot when it is right. When a tripod is used the camera shake is reduced and you get sharper pictures, may not be visible in a 5x3 but definitely so when blown up to 10x8 or 12x10.

[VW2010]

Fiddling with M mode makes you lose time - time which could have been spent taking more pictures. If it takes 'x' sec to set aperture and shutter speed in M mode, it will take 'x/2' sec to do the same in Av or Tv mode. And the settings would be identical

I thought the discussion to use the M mode was to achieve better results compared to AV to Tv mode using a flash and not about the speed it takes.. Controlling light using M mode is far easier than Tv or Av mode when using a flash.

[typeOnegative]

I really do not know about why we are fighting over modes. Sometime back we had a big hoo-ha on whether to shoot in RAW or not. At the end of the day, the end justifies the means. In my case the break up is - 90% Manual, 10% in fully auto mode / sports.

[VW2010]

I really do not know about why we are fighting over modes

Fights are good. We can learn a lot when someone presents a case or defends the same. Learning is always good. I am trying to move from DSLR to just a simple point and shoot. Learning was fun. Now trying to get back to practicality and simplicity

[shajufx]

typeO-ve, all such discussions are good for learners, atleast we will google more than usual and get answers ourselves ! So, we now finished RAW vs JPEG, Manual Vs A/S modes and what shall we take next ? I think there are plenty of topics worth discussing.

VW2010, its sad to hear your shifting back to P&S. Hope you did not have some bad field experience while hiding and shooting