[vjoy3]

For some android skeptics who believe home grown el cheapo phone running some ugly fast OS and hardware already selling at discount prices are better than android - The HTC Droid Incredible is out of stock after less than a day of availability at Verizon Wireless

HTC DROID Incredible sold out, new orders ship May 4th Boy Genius Report

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by vjoy3

For some android skeptics who believe home grown el cheapo phone running some ugly fast OS and hardware already selling at discount prices are better than android - The HTC Droid Incredible is out of stock after less than a day of availability at Verizon Wireless

HTC DROID Incredible sold out, new orders ship May 4th Boy Genius Report

Inventory management problem of a company who could not anticipate demand and stock enough :-)

FYI since last time we interacted on this thread much water has flown under the bridge now smart phone Competition is now iPhone OS 4 and Symbian 3 , Look at Nokia N8 which is based on Symbian 3 just for comparison.

Still As I see Android market percentage has not changed in last 3 months

And FYI ugly fast OS you refer to are called RTOS in correct terminology.

PS : The full price of this phone is 529.99 US $ you can buy 5 or 6 phones with so called ugly fast OS for similar use cases. So at 529.99 US $ still better choices are from rivals who can provide productive applications, Thanks but N8 with Full HD and HDMI out is more attractive any day at similar price point.

[vjoy3]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Inventory management problem of a company who could not anticipate demand and stock enough :-)

FYI since last time we interacted on this thread much water has flown under the bridge now smart phone Competition is now iPhone OS 4 and Symbian 3 , Look at Nokia N8 which is based on Symbian 3 just for comparison.

Still As I see Android market percentage has not changed in last 3 months

And FYI ugly fast OS you refer to are called RTOS in correct terminology.

PS : The full price of this phone is 529.99 US $ you can buy 5 or 6 phones with so called ugly fast OS for similar use cases. So at 529.99 US $ still better choices are from rivals who can provide productive applications, Thanks but N8 with Full HD and HDMI out is more attractive any day at similar price point.

I should have meant ugly fast UI. Have spent good time to check it out and it sucks. Fancy names such as RTOS in mobile world in this era are more
applicable for the likes of MS. Now please don't go around preaching soft vs hard realtime etc., Reminds me of the ~ 100 lines of C+assembly code written as a fresh grad to build one and much faster than RTOSes of the day.

PS:Exactly my point, with price of phone falling almost to half launch price, we might be able to buy bucket full of these along with their Chinese cousins.
Wonder how long companies are going to sit in their citadels of RTOS / fancy OS and continue to sell junk and continue to claim superiority.

I know, there has been enough gas about Symbian 3. Beats me how Nokia was sitting on this revolutionary stuff, gold mine ..etc., all along and reporting losses and poor forecast . Hope N8 fills its coffers again and they reverse their plans to dump Symbian and go meego.

Yes, there have been enough dooms day sayers for Linux / open source / collaborative work claiming how a closed group(publishing 4 files to meet legal requirements doesn't make a company proponent of open source) of highly paid intellectuals will have the final word, but then world is yet to see another Jobs/Woz or Gates.

Vijay

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by vjoy3

I should have meant ugly fast UI. Have spent good time to check it out and it sucks. Fancy names such as RTOS in mobile world in this era are more
applicable for the likes of MS. No

<Snipped>
I know, there has been enough gas about Symbian 3. Beats me how Nokia was sitting on this revolutionary stuff, gold mine ..etc., all along and reporting losses and poor forecast . Hope N8 fills its coffers again and they reverse their plans to dump Symbian and go meego.

Buddy learn to distinguish between technology and business strategy.
Money is earned on business strategy ( for instance appstore , itunes store) and not necessarily on technology, best example is Palm webos it was better then many others but then did not earn money.

You can hold your views on Nokia but still they are not making loss their profits are 1.3 Billion per quarter. Yes it is true that Apple has operational margin of 30% and they earn more then Nokia per quarter ( 2 Billion vs 1.3 Billion) but then it is not necessarily true that they are technically ahead. Any way Android still does not stand in this packing order anywhere :-)

Also I dont think there is any point in discussing on any other thing if you are so opinionated about Android but still the major flaws are not fixed and it needs 1Ghz Cortex A8 to do same job which Nokia is doing with a 600 Mhz Cortex core.
And thats why Battery life sucks apart from the point that application management is extremely poor.

FYI : Meego is for entirely different class of devices , Intel strategy document put meego as a common OS for variety of large form factor devices such as notebooks , TV , Camera and Net-books to run common applications ( do a google search on 3 screen ) not necessarily smartphones.

[vjoy3]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Buddy learn to distinguish between technology and business strategy.
Money is earned on business strategy ( for instance appstore , itunes store) and not necessarily on technology, best example is Palm webos it was better then many others but then did not earn money.

You can hold your views on Nokia but still they are not making loss their profits are 1.3 Billion per quarter. Yes it is true that Apple has operational margin of 30% and they earn more then Nokia per quarter ( 2 Billion vs 1.3 Billion) but then it is not necessarily true that they are technically ahead. Any way Android still does not stand in this packing order anywhere :-)

Also I dont think there is any point in discussing on any other thing if you are so opinionated about Android but still the major flaws are not fixed and it needs 1Ghz Cortex A8 to do same job which Nokia is doing with a 600 Mhz Cortex core.
And thats why Battery life sucks apart from the point that application management is extremely poor.

FYI : Meego is for entirely different class of devices , Intel strategy document put meego as a common OS for variety of large form factor devices such as notebooks , TV , Camera and Net-books to run common applications ( do a google search on 3 screen ) not necessarily smartphones.

Wonder what else are you going to preach. Helps once is a while to assume that other guy is not a dumbo. Did you by any chance count the number of times made such remarks...buddy?. Impressive correlations too. How about one with Palm (in its hay days) with one the ones you fancy - powerful hardware, snubbing open source development...History repeats...no?

Float conspiracy theories when on why competitors product get sold out
and pat our backs when ours get sold out. Funny.

Did you check how old is intel's strategy document by any chance?. There are other big players including Nokia who seem to be betting more on this than their home grown Symbian etc.,

As can be easily made out(pretty sure its not too much for a whiz kid to ask for), Android is following a strategy of incremental change and too many clones in the market in its road to perfection and in the process making improved versions available for developer community to work on - which is exactly how google/linux (and its flavors) flourished, while Nokia and Apple are going their one launch in a year or so approach. Both strategies are good in their own rights and no point cribbing that the other side is flawed.

HDMI/HD ? - Don't be surprised if one of the several android phones also get them soon.

Vijay

[vjoy3]

Android (and Samsung) seems to be getting big on tablets too now - Samsung's Android-powered S-Pad tablet with 7-inch Super AMOLED in August? -- Engadget

More and more folks are realizing advantage of going with opensource. All we need is to pickup a phone/tablet with powerful hardware(cortex etc.,) and rest assured the upgrades to newer versions will continue to happen for quite sometime.

Android's newer version 'Froyo' will be launched tentatively by May 19th and am sure many of the phones(we were expecting upgrade to) on 2.1 Eclair will soon jump the bandwagon and launch Froyo upgrades in another 4-5 months once they launch newer ones they already planned for Froyo.

Vijay

[amitk26]

Hi,

As promised I finally upgraded the SPICA with Android 2.1 Image ( Eclairs) and below is my report after playing for 30 minutes with updated image. The images are country specific , As Indian image is still not out I have used an European image. The update is officially available in Europe

As nothing is official , You need to do this at the risk of bricking your phone.

A little web search can tell you about Odin Multidownloader and from where to get firmware so I am not detailing that here. If still you need some help regarding that PM me and I will try to provide information as best I can.

A disclaimer all the below are my personal views , If you are Android Fan and do not like them please do not bother to counter them as I will not respond to any advocacy on this thread and ignore this post all together. I am already tired of the discussion on other Android thread and have stopped posting there for the same reason.

For those who do not know this is a Google experience phone and Google tightly control how thier services should be exposed. The noose is tightened in Android 2.1 as the compliance test cases for Google experience grows. Read point 3 in my list of negatives for the same

You may have certain concerns about exposing your location to Google. Thankfully as of today at least in India they are not bombarding with advertisements but who knows by next release you will get alerts like pizza hut 500 m away etc

Positives after updating to Android 2.1 ( Apart from usual which you can read on net anyway)

1. Kernel version 2.6.29 earlier image was based on 2.6.27 kernel.
Android actually specifies just a minimum version ( 2.6.23 as I remember) and Kernal image is from the phone vendor.
Build I am using is ECLAIR.XXJD1

Actually this does not make sense to average Joe but you can just assume that Linux Kernel is always improving and follows actual open source process unlike pseudo open source model of Android so you can blindly trust this part and just think that there are some good fixes else go to www.kernel.org and check the diff between 2.6.27 and 2.6.29 .

2 As I wrote on this thread battery usage is biggest drawback on Android
This is due to the application model and there is no change in Android 2.1 ( or any of the not yet released versions for that matter).

So what a phone maker can do at best is to inform who is hogging battery so that you can decide to kill the hog :-)
Now under phone status ( About Phone) there is information on who is using battery so you can check and kill the apps which are hogging battery by using some application such as Advanced Task killer.
3. There is information on Signal strength in DB as well , So you can not now dispute if call drop is happening due to poor signal strength or not. Most of the time Application platform ( android or any other) will have no role to play in dropped calls as it is controlled by modem but Perhaps doubts casted by all and sundry prompted to add this :-)

4. An unlock Icon on home screen, You need to touch and scroll to the right earlier it was just through hard side key.

5. More graphics effects in new version of SKIA ( Graphics Engine of Android) better blending and fade in /out.
6. Improvement in Input method editor, Typing is bit easier than before.
7. VPN Connection is supported.
8. Earlier synch was only with Google Services, Now allows to Synch with facebook and Corporate which can be any IMAP server I guess.
9. APN settings have one more option to select different APNs for MMS and internet just in case your operator supports multiple APNs , This is clearly a European requirement as operators like 3 ( UK , Sweden) support multiple PDP and thus APNs I am not sure it will be in Indian image or not.
10. Voice search supported
11. Full local search supported.
12. Lots of new gestures, though the gesture support is still primitive in Android compared to iPhone or even Samsungs own H1 Linux phones ( not available in India anyway)

Negatives for which I hate the update.

1. Performance is improved a bit but still not what it should be on an 800 Mhz advanced SOC. You need to remember an earlier version of same Samsung SOC is used in iPhone

2. Android 1.6 default Messaging application there was no option to backup your SMS on SIM card. By default it copies the SMS data in phone memory always ( SIM read is too slow on Android)

So reflashing means loosing your SMS data

3. In the location till Android 1.6 there was option to use both network based and satellite based but now for network based (AGPS) it prompts to agree to sharing the location data with Google if you refuse then you cannot use network based location , Such a pests they are.. and still some people go in endless debates on how Android is good harping on it being Open ;-)

AFAIK this new requirement is due to Google experience compliance there are some 22000 tests :-) when I checked last time.

3. No option in 1.6 or 2.1 to backup the installed application on SD card.

In case you have purchased applications then you may loose them until you follow some round about ways. What will be the great harm if the android package can be backed up on SD card?

I suspect this may also be due to Google experience compliance because they do not have a DRM solution for applications so such oddities are introduced to protect the payed applications.

Regards

[oss]

You can be pretty sure that i didn't understand a word of what you guys are talking about

Among the current OS available in the market my understanding is Apple 3 OS is the best. What comes next? Symbian 2?

Infact it was bit of a suprise to me when Nokia decided to continue with Symbian as few years back they agreed to its failures and were about to dump it. Not to mention the phones running on the current version of Symbian still hangs often

[vjoy3]

As promised I finally upgraded the SPICA with Android 2.1 Image ( Eclairs) and below is my report after playing for 30 minutes with updated image. The images are country specific , As Indian image is still not out I have used an European image. The update is officially available in Europe

As nothing is official , You need to do this at the risk of bricking your phone.

A little web search can tell you about Odin Multidownloader and from where to get firmware so I am not detailing that here. If still you need some help regarding that PM me and I will try to provide information as best I can.

A disclaimer all the below are my personal views , If you are Android Fan and do not like them please do not bother to counter them as I will not respond to any advocacy on this thread and ignore this post all together. I am already tired of the discussion on other Android thread and have stopped posting there for the same reason.

Tired of explaining how corby(guru next?) is better than android or ran out of reasons to pull down android?. Ever wondered why your own company is having a huge line up of androids.
You need to learn differentiate between open source and freeware. The code(all of kernel and good chunk of user space except for the ones which phone manufacturers - a.k.a samsung in this case) decided to keep proprietary. Everything in opensource will mean Samsungs, LGs and other
manufacturers exposing code(and hence design details) that makes their hardware better than competition - which they will not agree. No point if you continue cribbing on google for that - no hardware of their own & nothing to loose for them?. Hope you got the idea at least this time.

For those who do not know this is a Google experience phone and Google tightly control how thier services should be exposed. The noose is tightened in Android 2.1 as the compliance test cases for Google experience grows. Read point 3 in my list of negatives for the same

Google adds 22000+ tests not to make product more stable but to tighten noose?. It went beyond that and even published them. Good joke. Your own test/QA team would be very interested in reading these comments. And I was thinking 'compliance test suite' was not an alien concept to you yourself as long as you were part of whatever forum you were member of. Or do we have more conspiracy theories here?

You may have certain concerns about exposing your location to Google. Thankfully as of today at least in India they are not bombarding with advertisements but who knows by next release you will get alerts like pizza hut 500 m away etc

Positives after updating to Android 2.1 ( Apart from usual which you can read on net anyway)

1. Kernel version 2.6.29 earlier image was based on 2.6.27 kernel.
Android actually specifies just a minimum version ( 2.6.23 as I remember) and Kernal image is from the phone vendor.
Build I am using is ECLAIR.XXJD1

Actually this does not make sense to average Joe but you can just assume that Linux Kernel is always improving and follows actual open source process unlike pseudo open source model of Android so you can blindly trust this part and just think that there are some good fixes else go to www.kernel.org and check the diff between 2.6.27 and 2.6.29 .

Wait, you mean the above mentioned kernel that came as part of android is not open source?. Interesting. By the way folks the next version of android - Froyo which google should announce in a week or two will have 2.6.32 and the one coming by October will have 2.6.34. Wanna compare with Symbian or Apple upgrades?

2 As I wrote on this thread battery usage is biggest drawback on Android
This is due to the application model and there is no change in Android 2.1 ( or any of the not yet released versions for that matter).

So what a phone maker can do at best is to inform who is hogging battery so that you can decide to kill the hog :-)
Now under phone status ( About Phone) there is information on who is using battery so you can check and kill the apps which are hogging battery by using some application such as Advanced Task killer.
3. There is information on Signal strength in DB as well , So you can not now dispute if call drop is happening due to poor signal strength or not. Most of the time Application platform ( android or any other) will have no role to play in dropped calls as it is controlled by modem but Perhaps doubts casted by all and sundry prompted to add this :-)

4. An unlock Icon on home screen, You need to touch and scroll to the right earlier it was just through hard side key.

5. More graphics effects in new version of SKIA ( Graphics Engine of Android) better blending and fade in /out.
6. Improvement in Input method editor, Typing is bit easier than before.
7. VPN Connection is supported.
8. Earlier synch was only with Google Services, Now allows to Synch with facebook and Corporate which can be any IMAP server I guess.
9. APN settings have one more option to select different APNs for MMS and internet just in case your operator supports multiple APNs , This is clearly a European requirement as operators like 3 ( UK , Sweden) support multiple PDP and thus APNs I am not sure it will be in Indian image or not.
10. Voice search supported
11. Full local search supported.
12. Lots of new gestures, though the gesture support is still primitive in Android compared to iPhone or even Samsungs own H1 Linux phones ( not available in India anyway)

Negatives for which I hate the update.

1. Performance is improved a bit but still not what it should be on an 800 Mhz advanced SOC. You need to remember an earlier version of same Samsung SOC is used in iPhone

2. Android 1.6 default Messaging application there was no option to backup your SMS on SIM card. By default it copies the SMS data in phone memory always ( SIM read is too slow on Android)

So reflashing means loosing your SMS data
Agree, this can be improved upon. But then you can save SMS on SIM too?

3. In the location till Android 1.6 there was option to use both network based and satellite based but now for network based (AGPS) it prompts to agree to sharing the location data with Google if you refuse then you cannot use network based location , Such a pests they are.. and still some people go in endless debates on how Android is good harping on it being Open ;-)

AFAIK this new requirement is due to Google experience compliance there are some 22000 tests :-) when I checked last time.
Incorrect. Check this Google Privacy Center.
For the privacy term you have to agree when trying google maps thru AGPS - google maps is not opensource but is free(nobody is forcing you to use it) - hope you know this much?. A quick search of market place should yield enough freewares that don't stipulate agreeing to such terms. They may not be as good as gmaps but may have paid full versions.

3. No option in 1.6 or 2.1 to backup the installed application on SD card.

In case you have purchased applications then you may loose them until you follow some round about ways. What will be the great harm if the android package can be backed up on SD card?

I suspect this may also be due to Google experience compliance because they do not have a DRM solution for applications so such oddities are introduced to protect the payed applications.

Wrong. I know of at least two companies that are working on apps (paid like in iphone) for to address this.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by vjoy3

Tired of explaining how corby(guru next?) is better than android or ran out of reasons to pull down android?. Ever wondered why your own company is having a huge line up of androids.
You need to learn differentiate between open source and freeware. The code(all of kernel and good chunk of user space except for the ones which phone manufacturers - a.k.a samsung in this case) decided to keep proprietary. Everything in opensource will mean Samsungs, LGs and other
manufacturers exposing code(and hence design details) that makes their hardware better than competition - which they will not agree. No point if you continue cribbing on google for that - no hardware of their own & nothing to loose for them?. Hope you got the idea at least this time.

I am sorry if some one can not comprehend the fact that Android as it stands today uses hardware resources of category of iPhone but delivers performance and utility of category of Corby and S40 phones of Nokia and that is main negative. The good thing about Android is it's business model but technically yes it still sucks.

Did you ever conducted the tests I gave elsewhereto check how well Dalvik performs ?

About open source while I can say Kernel.org , GTK+ and various other projects hosted by Linux foundation are fully open-source.
Android does not fall in same league there are several reasons but since you choose not to understand so better leave at that point. Kernel code for various chip-sets including from TI and Samsung (Samsung phones use both) are available at kernel.org about propriety stuff like TI bridge code for IAM interfaces and similar code from other hardware vendors it is still not open so why keep on harping on that.

Originally Posted by vjoy3

For those who do not know this is a Google experience phone and Google tightly control how thier services should be exposed. The noose is tightened in Android 2.1 as the compliance test cases for Google experience grows. Read point 3 in my list of negatives for the same

Google adds 22000+ tests not to make product more stable but to tighten noose?. It went beyond that and even published them. Good joke. Your own test/QA team would be very interested in reading these comments. And I was thinking 'compliance test suite' was not an alien concept to you yourself as long as you were part of whatever forum you were member of. Or do we have more conspiracy theories here?

Compliance test case for what intent ? I do not mind GCF compliance, OMA , GSMA or w3c compliance they are for standardization but even Google officially acknowledged their compliance is for google experience which is purely for commercial reason.

Is this a conspiracy theory ?

Also number of test cases do not tell anything Well FYI if you don't know NTT DoCoMo in Japan has more then 100,000 test cases and theirs are most closed business model.

The whole promise of Google experience is to tighten the noose. Even google is clear about it when they expose Google service API strangely only you seem to deny it why don't you talk to someone from OHA or google for a change and ask about it.

Originally Posted by vjoy3

You may have certain concerns about exposing your location to Google. Thankfully as of today at least in India they are not bombarding with advertisements but who knows by next release you will get alerts like pizza hut 500 m away etc

Positives after updating to Android 2.1 ( Apart from usual which you can read on net anyway)

1. Kernel version 2.6.29 earlier image was based on 2.6.27 kernel.
Android actually specifies just a minimum version ( 2.6.23 as I remember) and Kernal image is from the phone vendor.
Build I am using is ECLAIR.XXJD1

Actually this does not make sense to average Joe but you can just assume that Linux Kernel is always improving and follows actual open source process unlike pseudo open source model of Android so you can blindly trust this part and just think that there are some good fixes else go to www.kernel.org and check the diff between 2.6.27 and 2.6.29 .

Wait, you mean the above mentioned kernel that came as part of android is not open source?. Interesting. By the way folks the next version of android - Froyo which google should announce in a week or two will have 2.6.32 and the one coming by October will have 2.6.34. Wanna compare with Symbian or Apple upgrades?

Read again to see what I mean
So what can you tell what are the exact patches in Kernel which google added except the binder which of-course was based on pre-existing open binder done by Access company of Japan who also owns ALP and Palm OS.

Kernel.org exists with out Android as well.

Symbian ^3 is also open source now but I am not following it Apple is closed source but then their usability and market share is definitely higher.

Originally Posted by vjoy3

Incorrect. Check this Google Privacy Center.
For the privacy term you have to agree when trying google maps thru AGPS - google maps is not opensource but is free(nobody is forcing you to use it) - hope you know this much?. A quick search of market place should yield enough freewares that don't stipulate agreeing to such terms. They may not be as good as gmaps but may have paid full versions.

Well re-read google is collecting data when you enable A-GPS and not just on using google maps. It would have been fare if this was just for map usage.

Originally Posted by vjoy3

I suspect this may also be due to Google experience compliance because they do not have a DRM solution for applications so such oddities are introduced to protect the payed applications.

Wrong. I know of at least two companies that are working on apps (paid like in iphone) for to address this.

And I know of at-least 50 companies that sell paid apps on Android market place but that is not what I wrote about. What I am talking is DRM protection for apps so that artificial restrictions like not allowing to copy /backup the package need not be applied. Untill this is done it is a drawback because user can not back up the installed apps.

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Originally Posted by honeybee

One simple step you could do to investigate the problem is swap the sim card of your phone with one of the other users, either your wife or sister. Using their sim card in your phone, if you are able to browse all the websites, and your sim card in their phone gives you similar problems, then it's something to do with your account/service activation.

Thanks for the wap / HTML tip. But wife is able to browse the net, including her netbanking site. I have to try tbhp too, if I have the mood.

I had tried sim swapping couple of days back, but got totally confused; because I used 3 sims, and one of them was a BSNL one. (dad's).

I tried again today, (before reading this post) and now the phone says no sim card found!!! So, could not try other SIMs on this phone; but my SIM works in the 2730,a nd there also, it says "subscribe to packet data". So, the problem is with my SIM.

Now, I have to spend tomorrow at the service center!!!! Grrrr,,,,,



Edit:- (to avoid multiple posts)

And I know of at-least 50 companies that sell paid apps on Android market place but that is not what I wrote about. What I am talking is DRM protection for apps so that artificial restrictions like not allowing to copy /backup the package need not be applied. Untill this is done it is a drawback because user can not back up the installed apps.

Is the situation any different on non-android phones? (that is, phones running proprietary software?


Edit 2:-

The following quote is from my Nokia 5130 XpressMusic user manual.

Digital rights management
Content owners may use different types of digital rights management (DRM) technologies to protect their intellectual property, including copyrights. This device uses various types of DRM software to access DRM-protected content. With this device you can access content protected with WMDRM 10, OMA DRM 1.0, OMA DRM 1.0 forward lock, and OMA DRM 2.0. If certain DRM software fails to protect the content, content owners may ask that such DRM software's ability to access new DRM-protected content be revoked. Revocation may also prevent renewal of such DRM-protected content already in your device. Revocation of such DRM software does not affect the use of content protected with other types of DRM or the use of non-DRM-protected content.Digital rights management (DRM) protected content comes with an associated
activation key that defines your rights to use the content.
If your device has OMA DRM-protected content, to back up both the activation keys and the content, use the backup feature of Nokia PC Suite. Other transfer methods may not
transfer the activation keys which need to be restored with the content for you to be able to continue the use of OMA DRM-protected content after the device memory is formatted. You may also need to restore the activation keys in case the files on your device get corrupted.
If your device has WMDRM-protected content, both the activation keys and the content will be lost if the device memory is formatted. You may also lose the activation keys and the content if the files on your device get corrupted. Losing the activation keys or the content may limit your ability to use the same content on your device again. For more information, contact your service provider.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

Is the situation any different on non-android phones? (that is, phones running proprietary software?


Edit 2:-

The following quote is from my Nokia 5130 XpressMusic user manual.

DRM is basically content protection it is widely applied on paid music , video etc and there are several schemes for media such as OMA and WMDRM or Playready.

In fact Android phones do support them.

What we were discussing was copy protection of installed apps. downloaded form app store for instance I purchase an app for 30$ make backup on SD card of the package and reinstall it on another phone for 0$.

The above is not a valid use case but in case I am updating firmware on same phone then my installed app should not be wiped out I should have mechanism to backup my 30$ App for re-installing the same app on same phone.

As this is a valid use case from end user point of view.

[vjoy3]

More assumptions about how dumb the other guy is?. Pity you.

1. Did you ever conducted the tests I gave elsewhereto check how well Dalvik performs ?
   
2. but since you choose not to understand so better leave at that point.
   
3. Well FYI if you don't know ....
   
4. strangely only you seem to deny it why don't you talk to someone from OHA or google for a change and ask about it.
   
5. Read again to see what I mean
   

Been there, done that. May be you are in not a position to contribute to Open Handset Alliance and hence the complaints?. Unlike Apples, and Nokias of the world, google encourages developer community to actually report bugs and fixes. Issues - android - Project Hosting on Google Code Same goes for the hundreds of mails that get exchanged on various groups for android - firmware/app-developers/beginners/porting/discuss(new ideas) etc., where you are free to contribute.May help if you do some value add there rather than just cribbing.

Did it occur to you that the APIs are to ensure having a standard platform for all app developers and hence portability of apps across phones?. Nothing new here, almost all other models that encourage app development do that. And, yes, you need to really convince OHA that the new API you fancy is missing is really needed. Nothing wrong there.

Am sure when Symbian and other 'open source' projects start helping multiple phones same time, they too would like the phone to pass certain tests before certifying as compliant. As you rightly said, NTT Docomo does that internally to maintain quality and AFAIK Samsung QA too has some pretty tough tests for Android (besides the 22000+ you are refering). Is that wrong to have?.


about propriety stuff like TI bridge code for IAM interfaces and similar code from other hardware vendors it is still not open so why keep on harping on that.

And you are blaming google for this or is it the fault with TI/Samsung etc.,?

[mrohit17]

Friends;

I bought the Galaxy Spica yesterday. The installed specs are:

Firmware Version: 1.5
Baseband version: I5700DDIK2
Kernel Version:2.6.27 IMTRS@SE-S506
Build Number: CUPCAKE.DDIL1

No doubt the phone is great, got it easily integrated with wireless network at home. The Idea edge network works great too. My Punto's Blue & Me works perfectly with Spica. Its great value for money. Went to the Samsung store today to upgrade the firmware to 2.1.

I have been called back on Monday for the upgrade. During the discussions I had with the guy there, he told me that a binary CSC file only needs to be upgraded as has been directed by Samsung.

Since I am new to Android, my question to friends who have already got the firmware upgrade is that will upgrading the CSC file automatically upgrade the firmware also to 2.1?

Regards;
-Rohit

[vjoy3]

Android Gains With Small Phone Makers in China - Android Gains With Small Phone Makers in China - Yahoo! News

Vijay