[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Good initiative.
Lets cut out what is premium and what is not for the time being.
But the way I see, if I10, Liva and Figo is included, so should be Beat. Beat's interiors quality is way better than Figo, Liva, Punto etc. It is not built to cost like Liva. It looks more upmarket than Figo. It is #2 in JD power quality ranking. (next to Jazz). So why noy.
So should be Ritz in the list. No explanation needed here.
You can call this thread, "Hatch with 1.2L+" instead of premium.

Indeed, the Beat should be included, if Liva, Figo and i10 are in it.

I have asked for the 4 options below the Fabia to be removed. (maybe put them in a separate comparo thread later) The list should be good to go after that is done.

Originally Posted by volkman10

What is the comparison between Polo 1.6 with Jazz in respective to handling in city driving and quality levels ( leave the interior space topic)? Is the GC (160 mm) too low in Jazz for Bangalore roads ( with 90% of the drives having with 3 occupants)

Cheers!

The Jazz nudges slightly ahead in city driving and handling inside the city, IMO. It returns pretty decent FE figures as well, compared to the Polo 1.6.

The GC is a debatable issue. Many Jazz owners feel that the low GC is not a big issue, and several haven't even scraped their Jazzes even once. But some report that they have scraped across bumpers, specially big bumpers. I think it has all to do with how you drive. A bit of careful driving on the roads and you can avoid the scrapings. 3 occupants shouldn't be a problem for the Jazz's GC at all. A fully-loaded Jazz, with 5 occupants and a loaded boot, could be a scraper.

On the highway, it could be a completely different picture. The Polo 1.6 is a real red-hot hatch and can easily outrun the Jazz on any stretch of road. That being said, the i-VTEC when fully revved is no slouch either. It can redline the top speed meters like anything. But the Polo 1.6 has the definite edge for highway runs, IMO.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

The Jazz nudges slightly ahead in city driving and handling inside the city, IMO. It returns pretty decent FE figures as well, compared to the Polo 1.6.

Thanks. Is there a TBHP review of the Polo 1.6 ? If so, please post the link here.

Cheers!

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by volkman10

What is the comparison between Polo 1.6 with Jazz in respective to handling in city driving and quality levels ( leave the interior space topic)? Is the GC (160 mm) too low in Jazz for Bangalore roads ( with 90% of the drives having with 3 occupants)

Cheers!

In terms of outright power and performance, the Polo 1.6 is the better car. It's well balanced, and puts down its 100 horses onto the road with ease. The handling too, is pretty good. Better than the Jazz, but that doesn't mean the Honda is bad. It's a good car around corners. It does have body roll, but not as much as some other cars. It can be pushed, but it doesn't like to be.

In terms of interior quality, both cars offer great quality. There isn't a big difference between the two cars. I prefer the Jazz's interiors since it's more practical (some 10 cup-bottle holders!) and designed better. It's appealing and quite funky too, unlike the Polo's boring and uninspiring dashboard.

I like the way you've explicitly mentioned that the space shouldn't be talked about. There is no contest, if that's the comparison.

The GC is a cause for concern. We have scraped out Jazz a few times over tall speed-breakers. A Jazz full of people and luggage is bound to scrape even a moderately large speed-breaker. But drive it carefully, and you should be okay.

It's all about being able to negotiate the speed-breakers. If you approach it at an angle and take one wheel over it at a time, there shouldn't be a problem at all.

EDIT: RavenAvi is right. The Polo is better than the Jazz on the highway. But the Jazz is a good highway car too.

[nkrishnap]

From when did punto start having heavy clutch? I guess its supposed to be long clutch travel. Also the performance is just blown out of proportion to show that punto is a tortoise and all The other cars are hare.

Ethos and liva cannot be considered to have good noise insulation so this shud give more negative points bye Toyota deserves this

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Good initiative.

My opinion on Performance.
Petrol
Polo1.6=Jazz=Swift=Ritz=I10>Beat=Polo1.2=Fabia1.2> I20>Micra>Liva>Figo>Punto
Diesel
I20>Swift=Ritz>Micra>Figo>Punto>Polo1.2=Fabia1.2>Beat

Handling
Punto>Figo>Polo>Fabia>Swift>Liva>Jazz=Ritz>i10=Beat>Micra=I20

Interior quality
I20=Polo=Fabia=i10>Jazz>Beat>Ritz>Swift>Figo>Micra >Punto>Liva.

Cars in bold are guesswork.


For me it is tough choice between Jazz, Swift(P/D), Polo1.6, I10 & FigoD.

I don't agree on the interior quality at all. How does a I10 or I20 have better quality interiors than Jazz? Jazz along with Polo and Fabia have the best initerior quality followed by the I-siblings.
Also, the Polo 1.6 will have an edge over a Swift or Jazz in performance. Is the new I10 that good?
On Handling, Fabia IMO is a better handler than Polo and Jazz is a much better handler than Ritz. Ritz rolls like crazy whereas jazz has much less of it.
Other than that, I agree more or less on the other stuff. I have not driven the Liva, so no clue about it.

[akhilesh]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

From when did punto start having heavy clutch? I guess its supposed to be long clutch travel. Also the performance is just blown out of proportion to show that punto is a tortoise and all The other cars are hare.

Ethos and liva cannot be considered to have good noise insulation so this shud give more negative points bye Toyota deserves this

Ditto.... Punto's clutch is one of the lightest of the lot.

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by adimicra

I don't agree on the interior quality at all. How does a I10 or I20 have better quality interiors than Jazz? Jazz along with Polo and Fabia have the best initerior quality followed by the I-siblings.

Strictly speakingabout interior quality: Fabia>Polo>Jazz>Isiblings.
I put the siblings in the 1st lot, as apart from the quality, their design is breath taking (subjective). Not so much for the others here.

Originally Posted by adimicra

Also, the Polo 1.6 will have an edge over a Swift or Jazz in performance. Is the new I10 that good?

I dont know. I still feel the 1.2L K series does the job better. May be the 1.6L polo did not live to my expectations.
And yes the Kappa2 is fabulous. It has a sweet bottom end. Better than K series. If only it had the handling prowess.

Originally Posted by adimicra

On Handling, Fabia IMO is a better handler than Polo and Jazz is a much better handler than Ritz. Ritz rolls like crazy whereas jazz has much less of it.

I had driven Fabia a long way back. And it was as good as Punto. Of course the steering feel of Punto was something else.
There is nothing much to choose between (Punto,Figo,Polo,Fabia) all are excellent. The swift however compromises on the ride (stiffer suspension) to be a good handler.
I drove the Ritz Zxi (wider tyres). Yes there was a bit of roll. The rear was bouncy. No way it is an enthusiast's car but neither is its handling a deal breaker.
Jazz on the other hand is not as agile as the Ritz. Harsh ride, stiff suspension and hence body roll is definitely less. But somehow it did not feel connected. Typical to all Hondas. Save the Civic.

Originally Posted by adimicra

Other than that, I agree more or less on the other stuff. I have not driven the Liva, so no clue about it.

The appalling interior quality has kept me away from the Toyota showroom. I will go for a TD provided time permits.

[tj123]

Definition of premium is getting faded as lot of low end cars have very good features these days especially the safety ones.

I think with so many classes of hatch back it is best to classify them into segments of 1.5 to 3 , 3 to 4 , 4 to 5, 5 to 7 and 7+ lac class of vehicle. With price as a common benchmark it is easy for anyone to gauge what he is getting for his buck and what car make most economic sense to buy and own.

[carfreak77]

Great thread started here RavenAvi!

IMO, the Liva & Vista cannot be considered as "premium hatchbacks". The Liva has cost cutting evident everywhere, thus I do not see it as a premium hatch. Vista, well having the dials in the center of the dash is another form of cost cutting.
Jazz is a great handler, even better than the Polo (thats probably because I have upgraded my tyres).

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by oxyzen

My opinion on Performance.
Petrol
Polo1.6=Jazz=Swift=Ritz=I10>Beat=Polo1.2=Fabia1.2> I20>Micra>Liva>Figo>Punto

The 1.4 Petrol Punto should also be added here (since we are talking premium hatches). This car is very capable and is immense fun to drive with its sporty engine note. Its got a weak low end similar to the Jazz, but past 2k rpm the 90 horses definitely do their work well.

[Sn1p3r]

Err... A mistimed comparison I must say.
Jazz/Swift have recently been upgraded so the quality is a bit different than earlier iterations. Swift also gets variable timing.

IMHO the decision and discussion are too confusing for the reader. Please get all the info at one place and then let's start discussion. The perspective is lost with too many comments between the line.

Great thread. Cheers!

[mdsaab]

Hey the thread is up and looks fantastic.
Its going to be a huge help for folks looking out for a premium hatch.
I feel the Liva can be considered as a premium hatch due to two reasons the space on offer and the price tag. Sure it does not come with many goodies. But for someone for whom space is a big criteria it would help by including it in this list.
From my angle cars like the a-star,alto, spark etc are the basic hatches. While mostly all above them are premium ones. Barring the beat though as it is not too clearly positioned. This ofcourse is strictly IMO.
Thanks RavenAVI for starting this wonderful thread.
I am going to keep a close watch on it. As i am in the market for a new hatch for my wife in the not too distant future.
Maybe after the Brio is launched we can decide whether that should make it to this thread too.

[nurni76]

Originally Posted by volkman10

What is the comparison between Polo 1.6 with Jazz in respective to handling in city driving and quality levels ( leave the interior space topic)? Is the GC (160 mm) too low in Jazz for Bangalore roads ( with 90% of the drives having with 3 occupants)

Cheers!

You bet. Jazz has very poor GC especially for Bangalore Roads. With 5 onboard even the smallest humps will cause pains to the owner. This is a big minus for Jazz

[maverickxx2006]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Fiat Grande Punto - (4.31L to 6.84L)

(-) Sluggish low-end revving engines, interior fit and finish, rear bench, mileage, cabin insulation, driving position, heavy clutch, Fiat's A.S.S.
A.S.S.

Can you help me understand about mileage being negative point for Punto?

Are you talking for Petrol or Diesel?

[Sn1p3r]

Originally Posted by mdsaab

I feel the Liva can be considered as a premium hatch due to two reasons the space on offer and the price tag.

Maybe after the Brio is launched we can decide whether that should make it to this thread too.

Too many hatch request. Premium is lost for if all variants are considered. I request Ravi to re-work the list with specific variant name, else Swift Lxi and Zxi both will be considered premium. Similarly Polo 1.6 and 1.2.

This thread has greatest potential to make it as the most read thread ever