[ron178]

Originally Posted by blitz_nomad

Looking forward to the Honda Jazz.

I know the Honda Jazz scored well in Global NCAP tests, but please remember that in the test there are no adults in the back. Considering that rear seat comfort and safety is a top priority, please be sure to check out the rear head restraints in the Indian Jazz, whose height coverage is concerningly low.

In case you're looking at the 2015 Jazz review on Team-BHP, remember that the test car had Honda Magic Seats which were later discontinued. Those cars had adjustable head restraints. New cars have these small fixed head restraints.

I would suggest the lower-riding Amaze because of your motion sickness, but it also suffers the same head restraint issues.

Originally Posted by Strider24

1. Both cars are 4 star GNCAP rated.

Well, the Indian Amaze was never tested. Africa has much weaker safety regulations and Honda recently showed they're capable of selling good performers in India, so I expect the Amaze to perform like the exported one. Plus it wouldn't make financial sense for Honda to develop two separate versions considering the Amaze's negligible volumes in Africa. But we can't say for sure. (based on the African one's frontal impact score the Indian one could possibly qualify for five stars (after a side impact) because it also has a seatbelt reminder on the passenger side, unlike the African one. But the fact that Honda didn't sponsor a test despite this raises some questions.)

Originally Posted by Strider24

'on sale in India' Amaze would not be built lesser.

My point is that more likely than not, it could actually be 'more' than the African one and even the Jazz. Not sure what stopped them from achieving a five star rating when it is fairly obvious they could (I use the past tense because the Amaze has no ESC and Global NCAP starting July will require it for even three stars). Perhaps something like a door opening in the Regulation 95 side impact? I'm really not sure. The Indian Government's side impact in similar configuration already has 'No doors shall open during the test' as a requirement (5.3.1).

[Strider24]

Originally Posted by ron178

Well, the Indian Amaze was never tested. Africa has much weaker safety regulations and Honda recently showed they're capable of selling good performers in India, so I expect the Amaze to perform like the exported one. Plus it wouldn't make financial sense for Honda to develop two separate versions considering the Amaze's negligible volumes in Africa. But we can't say for sure. (based on the African one's frontal impact score the Indian one could possibly qualify for five stars (after a side impact) because it also has a seatbelt reminder on the passenger side, unlike the African one. But the fact that Honda didn't sponsor a test despite this raises some questions.)

https://www.team-bhp.com/news/honda-...ap-crash-tests

True.. Made for India Amaze was never tested, but looking at the recent results of Jazz, I am willing to bet that made in India and 'on sale in India' Amaze would not be built lesser.

[blitz_nomad]

Originally Posted by ron178

I know the Honda Jazz scored well in Global NCAP tests, but please remember that in the test there are no adults in the back. Considering that rear seat comfort and safety is a top priority, please be sure to check out the rear head restraints in the Indian Jazz, whose height coverage is concerningly low.

In case you're looking at the 2015 Jazz review on Team-BHP, remember that the test car had Honda Magic Seats which were later discontinued. Those cars had adjustable head restraints. New cars have these small fixed head restraints.

Oh Thanks! Will definitely check that out. In general when I go for these test drives, I also take a ride sitting in the back seat. From the picture thought, I think this should be ok for us.

One question: We've been in a Diesel (BS4) Honda WR-V earlier and had no motion sickness issues in it and had an overall ok experience. Given my constraint that the car may sit in the garage 3 to 6 months... can a Diesel engine tolerate that? Does it have to be a daily ride? The official review on it mentioned the petrol engine as a weak point. Hence the thought.

I would suggest the lower-riding Amaze because of your motion sickness, but it also suffers the same head restraint issues.

Well, the Indian Amaze was never tested. Africa has much weaker safety regulations and Honda recently showed they're capable of selling good performers in India, so I expect the Amaze to perform like the exported one. Plus it wouldn't make financial sense for Honda to develop two separate versions considering the Amaze's negligible volumes in Africa. But we can't say for sure. (based on the African one's frontal impact score the Indian one could possibly qualify for five stars (after a side impact) because it also has a seatbelt reminder on the passenger side, unlike the African one. But the fact that Honda didn't sponsor a test despite this raises some questions.)

Thanks for the info. The Wr-V, Amaze are all slightly larger cars. Will need to think.

@Strider24 - Thank you very much for that write up. Since I'm yet to try the Honda, thats a lot of useful input. Do keep us posted on what you ended up picking.

Originally Posted by Strider24

5. Back seat comfort of Jazz is not that great for tall passengers, but it should be good enough for short passengers ( my wife is 5'3'' and she was pretty happy during test drive. Though the magic seat are gone & even top end variant doesn't get 60:40 split option. Again Jazz owners can give feedback if there is any way to increase the backseat comfort like custom build seat covers with increased headrest height.

Luckily for us, no one is tall. I'm 5'6'' and the rest are shorter. Since you've already taken the test ride, did you check with dealer if an adjustable head rest could be installed on the Jazz post purchase (& any impacts on warranty thereof)?.

I've great expectations for the Jazz now. Given everyone's input on automatics, for the Jazz I'm thinking mainly of the CVT.

On the other choice, as we hear that Tata Altroz DCT has also been announced, everyone on that forum is bashing the combination & I don't know if it can be recommended. besides it's launch is sometime away and one should wait to get the first user feedback. if your buying time horizon is long ( say until June-July ) then wait for it to come out and it's reviews.

That I am definitely not considering, for the same reason that was so crisply captured earlier in the thread:

Originally Posted by Axe77

Reason: Tata + DCT + 1.0 avatar.
Tata is not the exactly the cornerstone of QC and reliability (they’re not bad either) and DCTs have consistently been problematic in India across manufacturers - from Skoda to Ford to even Hyundai.

If it was one or two of the above three, that might be fine. But all these three aspects combined together would make me wary of going for this option.

Originally Posted by 535raj

I am a first-time driver like you. Bought Kiger RXZ turbo CVT 3 months ago and I am very happy with the purchase. I liked the space, smoothness of CVT, road view, boot space and its looks. You may consider this and have a test drive. Good luck with your car search!

Thanks for the input. This is also a 3 cylinder engine, given the experience in the Altroz, Not too enthusiastic about these.

[youngknight]

Originally Posted by blitz_nomad

Thanks for the input. This is also a 3 cylinder engine, given the experience in the Altroz, Not too enthusiastic about these.

I'm also an owner of RXZ CVT model of Kiger and let me tell you that NVH is pretty well contained, despite it being a turbo 3cylinder.

But since you're concerned about service availability and all, you can give Renault a pass - even though I personally like their service - better stick to Maruti or Hyundai for rural areas.

For first time buyers, I think the Kiger is practical with smoothness of CVT, has a fun-to-drive nature(the Sports mode is such an amazing addition), has ease of drivability and good space inside for the rest of the passengers. Plus, it's been rated 4 Stars by GNCAP.

If you have the time, do take a test drive of the CVT. Good luck.

[PrasannaDhana]

I would suggest Jazz.

I own an altroz (a diesel) and I had a chance to PDI my grandfather's new Altroz 1.2 NA. The NVH is rather very poor. I am sure the iturbo isn't going to be much better.

Regarding stiff ride you felt, it must be because the tyres would have been inflated to 36 psi. I also admit that the low speed ride is pretty stiff. My previous car was an extremely plush riding ciaz. I felt the difference instantly. I have been reducing the pressure to 32 psi and the ride is much better.

Regarding rural roads, there is no issues of GC. I drive majority on rural roads and the altroz fares well.

I would suggest the 1.5 diesel as it is more refined than the petrols and has good performance too. But if you drive sedately, it's a big NO as DPF issues crop up easily.

A smooth 1.2 ivtec, spacious cabin, good ride quality of the jazz fits you perfectly.

[busydrive]

Hi blitz_nomad
I see your location as Bangalore. The only proper automatics you have under 10 Lakh here are The Datsun Go and Go+ and Honda Amaze - S. You stretch till 11 and you have Kiger, Magnite. If you stretch till 12 you will get Amaze V, Jazz, Kiger and Magnite higher trims and Lower trims of Breeza, Urban Cruiser.
You do have lots of AMT options below 10 Lakh.
This is not a AMT vs CVT thread but wanted to add one view that even though I like driving proper automatics (Mine is a Torque Convertor though) their maintenance and repair in case of failure are much higher than AMT(s). So look for the highest warranty packages offered by the manufacturer. Honda I think leads here.

[partishs]

Hi Blitz Nomad, go for altroz or new Baleno. My brother has Altroz and is super awesome. Nothing much issue on village roads. Also just check the Baleno 2022 once, which is coming with new safety features and is loaded with tech . it's also tried and tested in terms of comfort. I have one and
is very spacious in rear. Punch will be a bit smaller for rear passengers in my opinion. In case you need a lot of boot, have a look at Ertiga as well. Ertiga has very comfy reclining rear seats and lot of boot after folding third row. Only con it will go slightly above 10

[souvikjana83]

In my opinion you should also check out the Hyundai Nios AMT as both Petrol and Diesel will come under your budget of ₹10 lakhs. You will find it to be a very good city car and being a bit smaller in size compared to Altroz or Jazz, it will be easier to drive in B'lore traffic as well.

[yesyeswe]

I have driven my cousin's Altroz Turbo extensively and it's a lovely car, solidily build, good set of features, stable at high speeds, spacious and gives a very good fuel economy when driven sedately. Moreover the 90 degree opening doors will be helpful for your mother.

Remember to drive the car in sports mode during your test drive as the normal mode is very slowly and the car feels very sluggish in it. I would have recommended you an automatic but the clutch of
Altroz turbo is so light and the travel is short as well, so you won't have any problem with it. Go ahead with the car.

P. S. saw your observation of your test drive of Altroz after writing this post, my bad.

[blitz_nomad]

Folks, Thanks for all your inputs.

Quite a lot of news out there about Baleno 2022's safety features and a lot of speculation about a possible 5 start NCAP rating. (Just google, 'baleno 2022 ncap rating'). I'm not sure how much of importance to attach to these... but nothing better if Maruti themselves produce a 5* car.
Since many of you here are experts, would love to know your views. Has the company actually said anything about this and do you think the 2022 baleno may score higher?

Originally Posted by busydrive

This is not a AMT vs CVT thread but wanted to add one view that even though I like driving proper automatics (Mine is a Torque Convertor though) their maintenance and repair in case of failure are much higher than AMT(s).

Thanks for pointing that out. Didn't think of that. Any idea how long these typically last and how much will the repair & maintenance come to? Those already owing the Jazz or other CVTs, please kindly chime in.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by blitz_nomad

Quite a lot of news out there about Baleno 2022's safety features and a lot of speculation about a possible 5 start NCAP rating. (Just google, 'baleno 2022 ncap rating').

They never really said that. It's a baseless rumour that started on some websites after reports that Maruti would be making the exterior panels stiffer to resist dents. They never directly said anything about improving the safety rating but of course I would be thrilled it it's true.

Has the company actually said anything about this and do you think the 2022 baleno may score higher?

To be fair, even the old Baleno sold in India was never tested. The one tested by Latin NCAP was left hand-drive and it had a pretty good frontal impact, similar to the Polo and Jazz, because that's all Global NCAP has been evaluating in India until now. But right hand-drive cars often perform worse in frontal impact so it's not wise to assume that the (old/new) Indian one would do that well.

Nevertheless I would have not recommended the old Baleno because it had poor chest protection in the side impact despite being structurally ok, and it didn't have side airbags as an option. The problem is, we don't have that data for any other cars in the segment either. Even the four star Jazz, Tiago and Polo could potentially become zero star cars overnight depending on their side impact, because Global NCAP is updating their assessment protocols this year to include that test.

The new Baleno has optional side body and head airbags and ESC and if I were in your place I think I might have taken my chances in that. Of course, just having those systems does not mean they're going to be effective unless proven by the relevant tests, but not having the systems definitely means it would perform poorly in those tests. Personally, I don't think buying a car in 2022 without ESC and side head protection airbags is a very good idea, even if it has a good Global NCAP rating for frontal impact. Ideally, you would want a car with both, but unfortunately the market situation doesn't allow that.

Whether you would like a car with excellent NCAP frontal impact performance but no side impact airbags, or one with unknown NCAP frontal impact performance but with side impact airbags, is up to you. Given that the Government of India now does a very basic UN-equivalent 56km/h frontal impact as part of homologation, I think I'd prefer the latter if I were in your place.

[Durango Dude]

I think you should also have a look at the Renault Kiger 1 turbo petrol with CVT. Must say Renault doesn't allow 'window shopping' on it's website unless you reveal your name number and city...that's real bad...


Looked good on this ACI review:

https://youtu.be/UGJSvN-H-SY

[blitz_nomad]

So I did a TD on the Honda Jazz CVT

Things that went well

• Ride was definitely smooth & comfy
• Was much easier to drive (this is my first time in an automatic)
• Lots of Space!! It's a nice large well lit cabin in the afternoon

Two things that I didn't like (which may well be a deal breaker for me)

• Weak A/C - I mean really weak. The front seats are ok. But it took a really long time to cool the rear seats. I can totally imagine my family members complaining sitting there after being parked in the sun. Honda could have raise the price and provided rear a/c vents too... but alas there is no option of rear a/c vents currently.
• Head rest - Those tiny little bumps in the back seat that serve as a headrest - I don't know why Honda bothered to put them in. Might as well have got rid of it, because it offers no support at all. Its like not having a head rest.

Would love to hear what current Jazz owners do to work around these?

Originally Posted by ron178

Whether you would like a car with excellent NCAP frontal impact performance but no side impact airbags, or one with unknown NCAP frontal impact performance but with side impact airbags, is up to you. Given that the Government of India now does a very basic UN-equivalent 56km/h frontal impact as part of homologation, I think I'd prefer the latter if I were in your place.

Clearly you are very knowledgeable in the safety aspect (be it these comments or earlier in the thread pointing out the lack of the rear head rests as a safety issue given the NCAP). Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge. The last comment, gives me the courage to bring Baleno as well into the picture. Think I will TD that next or get a rental from Revv and take it out for a drive.

I just don't understand why Honda would go economizing on the rear headrests and AC vents.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by blitz_nomad

So I did a TD on the Honda Jazz CVT
[*]Head rest - Those tiny little bumps in the back seat that serve as a headrest - I don't know why Honda bothered to put them in. Might as well have got rid of it, because it offers no support at all. Its like not having a head rest.[/list]Would love to hear what current Jazz owners do to work around these?

I just don't understand why Honda would go economizing on the rear headrests and AC vents.

I have the Amaze and it has the same non existent rear headrests along with a very underpowered engine (same engine used in both). Wouldn’t recommend you get the Jazz if anyone will ever occupy the rear seats as non existent headrests can lead to very severe whiplash injury as your head and neck aren’t supported.

Also the 1.2l engine is so underpowered you have to floor it to just get a move on, even at low speeds, let alone higher speeds. And this is driving alone, with 2-3 people it’s even worse.

Also, regarding NCAP scores and safety ratings, keep in mind they only hold against their own weight class, a 5 star rated Jazz won’t be as safe as a larger 5 star rated car (due to inherent mass differences). In the real world it’s likely you’ll crash against a vehicle with a different mass than your own, heavier bodies will decelerate at a slower rate and as a result will subject their occupants to lower g forces, minimising internal injuries (as crash energy is shared equally by both vehicles). Cheers.

[chaosengine]

This is my first ever post, and I hope I have done a decent job of abiding by the website’s rules. I am honestly quite intimidated to be posting this here, but taking a leap of faith anyway.

I am a single 31 old man, and I am in the process of buying a car in hopefully Q3 of the year, if not Q4 depending on waiting periods given the semiconductor industry supply chain issue.

Context:

Coming from a middle class family, owning a car was a dream. Finally in 2010, my dad was able to buy a Chevrolet Beat LT (O) in the cocktail green colour. Neither of us knew how to drive the car on purchase, but the decision was made with my research from car magazines (Autocar India and Overdrive). The only other car we had considered was the Hyundai i10. We both learned how to drive a car only after it came home, however, overenthusiastic me always took to the wheel and got comfortable with driving in Bangalore traffic while my dad lost touch and panicked while driving in traffic and eventually gave up. We still own the car, but it is also used by my sister occasionally.

Last April, when I turned 30, I figured I’d buy a car for myself to commute to office especially given the Covid situation. I live in southern Bangalore and my workplace (although currently WFH) is over 23km away and I have to commute through narrow roads of residential Bangalore before I enter the extremely congested roads of Bangalore (for those of you from the city, Silk Board and onwards). I test drove a bunch of cars in the 8-11L (on-road Bangalore) at the time and booked a Tata Altroz XZ+ Turbo.

With 2nd wave kicking in, I decided to cancel the booking since there was no real need for the car (we still have the Beat, like I mentioned earlier) if we were not going to commute to work. I also own a Yamaha FZ25 that I had been using as my primary mode of transport pre-Covid.

Now that things have stabilised (although we still work from home), I have decided to book a car in the next few months - a car that will be used for:
Commute to work (45km every day) - when offices do open up, I’d need to commute 3 days in every 2 weeks alone or with a co-passenger at best.
Occasional trips from Bangalore to Chennai and/or western ghats - maybe once a month with a co-passenger or family.
Trips within the city with family occasionally when we choose to dine out.

After a lot of introspection, I have narrowed down the list of features/qualities that I seek from a car. A lot of the features may seem quirky but I’ve gotten used to the Chevy Beat pampering me with some of them below:

Must haves:

• Plush ride - while I will mostly drive alone, I will also be chauffeuring my ageing parents around occasionally
• Handling - I will be doing a lot of highway runs and would like a communicative steering
• Torque - I am not very aggressive when it comes to putting the pedal to the metal, but being used to my FZ25, I would like a refined and torquey engine to help me with daily commutes. The tall-geared Beat has troubled me a lot with very little torque in the 3rd gear with me needing to downshift to accelerate up the slopes
• Safety
• A good touchscreen infotainment system - I have a knack of getting lost when I get a bit adventurous with routes and I must have Apple CarPlay/Android Auto to use navigation reliably.
• Good speakers - as a budding Carnatic vocalist and a music aficionado, I will be listening to music almost all the time.
• Fuel efficiency - with the insane fuel prices, mileage does become an important factor.

Good to have:

• Alloy wheels
• Auto-dimming IRVM
• A good automatic climate control/AC system
• Ventilated seats - being from Bangalore, both me and my mom struggle when we visit the coastal cities.
• Decent ground clearance to handle potholes and unruly speed breakers of the city so the car does not bottom out. I am usually careful with my driving, but in places of bad visibility, I would have liked a car with a higher ground clearance to glide over bad roads.

And the one feature that I DO NOT want to have is a sunroof. So if I can find a car that does not have a sunroof, I’d love it. I’d rather get some useful features for the same price premium than a sunroof which makes no sense for someone like me.

My budget would ideally be between 9-10L on-road, but if I must, I am willing to stretch till 11L on-road. PS: I come from Bangalore where taxes are on the higher side. So this would translate to an ex-showroom price of around 8-8.5L INR. Hence, my budget is not stretchable beyond 11L on-road. I also do not want to get a pre-owned car.

I am not too confident in investing into a turbo-petrol engine because of mileage concerns, but if any of you who own one can reassure me of decent mileage with a rather sedate driving style (unless it is on a highway, I generally don’t rev hard). If I cannot extract beyond 12-13kmpl in bumper-to-bumper traffic, I’d prefer to avoid the car.

For the time-being, I prefer owning a manual car since I am in my early 30s and this would be my first car that I would be buying with my own money (despite the Beat being mostly used by me). I am not too particular about the form factor. I have driven cars of different shapes and size and do not have a preference.

Shortlist:

In no particular order, the cars I have come to like are:

• Tata Altroz XZ

  Given my budget and need for decent economy, I am debating between 1.2 NA vs 1.2 Turbo, Altroz diesel is quite expensive in Bangalore) - I don’t need the XZ+ features, settling for XZ. Tata’s reliability concerns me, and the Turbo engine although borrowed from Nexon is fairly new in the Altroz. The decision comes down to “How underpowered in the NA engine” vs “How high maintenance is the Turbo engine”. Has the Altroz been around long enough for Tata to have ironed out the fresh product niggles? Should I be worried about Tata’s after sales service?
  
• Maruti Suzuki Ignis Alpha MT
  Seems to be the perfect first car for me. The steering concerns bother me a bit, and I feel I can stretch my budget to get a slightly bigger and better car. I trust that Ignis has better build quality than most other Marutis.
  
• Maruti Suzuki Baleno Alpha MT
  Not a fan of the looks, but I can live with it. The fact that the Alpha variant gets auto-dimming IRVM and a new touchscreen infotainment system makes me want to skip the Zeta. Also, I know this sounds extremely silly, but having massive bezels around the touchscreen infotainment system in the Zeta variant feels weird to me. Hoping that the new Baleno has a safer chassis and build quality than the previous model.
  
• Honda Amaze 1.2 VX MT
  How underpowered is the engine? Is the fit and finish subpar? Apart from that, this feels like the perfect first car for me, reliable, easy to maintain, and hey, it’s a Honda. As a Yamaha user, I feel the Honda can keep me happy. Also, will Honda leave India? We already own a Chevrolet which exit India so I am a bit paranoid about this factor.
  
• Tata Punch 1.2 MT
  Accomplished Dazzle pack if I can live without a rear wiper/defogger, or Creative, if I can’t, and I don’t really need the iRA pack - but do I really need a Punch over Altroz just for the sake of ground clearance? I also felt like the Punch’s engine had a slightly bottom lower end compared to the Altroz’s NA engine. Should I be worried about Tata’s after sales service?
  
• Renault Kiger RXZ
  Going with the RXZ for the drive modes hoping that it’d help with fuel economy. This decision too comes down to - “How underpowered in the NA engine” vs “How high maintenance is the Turbo engine”. I don’t trust Nissan enough to stay in India with just the Magnite, hoping that the Kwid, Triber and possibly a new Duster (if there are plans) will keep Renault around for a little longer.

Cars considered but not in my final shortlist:

• Hyundai Grand i10 Nios
  not a fan of the 1.2 engine, and also dislike the fact that the Turbo comes only in the Sportz variant and not Asta. I don’t even get adjustable headrests and a rear wiper that my 10 year old Beat does.
  
• Hyundai i20
  1.2 engine is probably underpowered (same reason why I've not considered the Hyundai Venue 1.2 S+ or KIA Sonet 1.2 variants), and still quite expensive for the Asta variant. Sportz variant feels like a huge compromise. Turbo and diesel are very expensive and go beyond my budget.
  
• Honda Jazz VX
  Honda Amaze seems to fit the bill at a lower price. I don’t see a novelty in going after Jazz.

Not even going to consider the Swift for safety reasons. I really wish the Ford Freestyle was still around.

Except for the new Baleno, I’ve test driven all the cars in different engine/transmission variants so far.

Any help/advice/insight from all you wonderfully resourceful and experienced BHPians would be a godsend. Thanks in advance for helping me out!