[SoumenD]

That’s a pretty detailed set of requirements. Well done. But I will strongly suggest you go for a AT if its to be driven in Bangalore traffic. Few years down the line your left leg will thank you.

Moreover 12-13kmpl in b2b traffic is almost impossible in any premium hatch/csuv except maybe baleno. Don’t go by FE numbers in 2020-21, once traffic is back in full swing it will go down for sure. In that budget of 11 OTR among your choices my suggestion would be a Kiger CVT. Or wait for the Altroz DCA.

Outside these Nissan Magnite too is a ‘safe’ car with a great engine/transmission combo.

Originally Posted by chaosengine

[*]Honda Jazz VX
Honda Amaze seems to fit the bill at a lower price. I don’t see a novelty in going after Jazz.[/list]

Have you been inside both the cars? Try it and you will clearly see why Jazz is more expensive. Amaze is based on brio, a platform for developing countries. I myself own one in the family. Hope you have seen the latest GNCAP results? Jazz scored more than the city in adult protection with a ‘stable’ rated bodyshell.

[jigbarai]

Jazz CVT is the perfect fit to your needs, right at about 10L in BLR

[chaosengine]

Thanks for the quick reply! I guess I got too nitpicky with Jazz not having any semblance of headrests (fixed or adjustable). I do agree - the fit and finish of the Jazz is far superior to that of Amaze.

carwale.com suggests the arrival of new Jazz in December 2022 - do you think it's worth waiting for since the current model is quite old in the product life cycle?

I am fine with the Nissan Magnite - but I prefer the 4 airbags of Kiger over the TPMS/360 degree camera of Magnite, plus as a Chevy owner, I find Renault > Nissan presently. I also like the centre console and the storage area around the armrest along with the option of drive modes on the Kiger. Also, the Renault dealership in JP Nagar, Bangalore have been far more courteous with respect to arranging test drives versus Nissan. Would you recommend the AMT of NA Kiger or is it worth going for the CVT in Kiger Turbo?

Originally Posted by SoumenD

That’s a pretty detailed set of requirements. Well done. But I will strongly suggest you go for a AT if its to be driven in Bangalore traffic. Few years down the line your left leg will thank you.

Moreover 12-13kmpl in b2b traffic is almost impossible in any premium hatch/csuv except maybe baleno. Don’t go by FE numbers in 2020-21, once traffic is back in full swing it will go down for sure. In that budget of 11 OTR among your choices my suggestion would be a Kiger CVT. Or wait for the Altroz DCA.

Outside these Nissan Magnite too is a ‘safe’ car with a great engine/transmission combo.



Have you been inside both the cars? Try it and you will clearly see why Jazz is more expensive. Amaze is based on brio, a platform for developing countries. I myself own one in the family. Hope you have seen the latest GNCAP results? Jazz scored more than the city in adult protection with a ‘stable’ rated bodyshell.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by chaosengine

Would you recommend the AMT of NA Kiger or is it worth going for the CVT in Kiger Turbo?

1.0 turbo CVT eyes closed. No second thoughts

Infact if it were available back in 2019, it would have been my choice ahead of the Jazz.

Originally Posted by chaosengine

Thanks for the quick reply! I guess I got too nitpicky with Jazz not having any semblance of headrests (fixed or adjustable). I do agree - the fit and finish of the Jazz is far superior to that of Amaze.

carwale.com suggests the arrival of new Jazz in December 2022 - do you think it's worth waiting for since the current model is quite old in the product life cycle?

There isn’t much news on that front, so can’t say. I own the 2019 exclusive edition and somehow prefer the exterior looks over the new(global) model. So it boils down to your personal preference.

[akash_v12]

Originally Posted by chaosengine

This is my first ever post, and I hope I have done a decent job of abiding by the website’s rules. I am honestly quite intimidated to be posting this here, but taking a leap of faith anyway.

Appreciate the detailed list of requirements, chaosengine!

- The first thing that you should do is to take your parents along with you for the TD of each car. Since you will be chauffering them, I'm sure they'll love deciding which backseat they like more and which car will be easy for them to get in and out of.

- For me, the 3 cars I'd be looking at would be the Altroz, the Kiger or the Magnite. As a wildcard entry, I'd also keep the 4th-gen City V MT in the loop (although you may have to stretch your budget by a lakh). I think the first thing your parents would appreciate would be the rear seat of the City.

- Performance-wise, a NA engine simply cannot beat a turbo engine of the same capacity. In the T-BHP review of the Altroz Turbo, this has been mentioned multiple times:

We frankly feel terrible for those who bought the Altroz NA petrol because this turbo-petrol is vastly superior! There is simply no comparison. This is the engine that the Altroz should have been launched with in the first place. It is smooth, peppy and has good drivability.

I think this would be enough to guarantee that when you are going for the Altroz, you should go for the Turbo. Additionally, when not driven hard, Turbos can be good on mileage too. Our Vento (1.2 TSi) averages around 15-17 over a mix of 70:30 highway-city driving (driven by my father, who has a sedate foot and a very calm driving style).

[blitz_nomad]

Chaosengine,

Can you please describe your test drive experience with the Altroz? Which variant did you try out & was it the diesel/petrol NA or i-turbo?

The reason I ask is, you requirements list starts with a 'plush ride'. My TD of Altroz i-turbo zx+, the lack of a plush ride was kind of a deal-breaker. I've documented my experience earlier in the thread. I'm trying to get a second TD arranged by a different dealer, but would like to know what was you experience as well.

The ride in the Jazz CVT was plush. (Unfortunately, the AC and lack of rear seat head rests and AC vents - is what keeps me from booking it. Still not out of my short list though.)

[chaosengine]

I was bummed by the steering feedback of the Kiger - although I had driven the car earlier, I had possibly gotten carried away by the engine responsiveness and refinement related curiosities. I found a chance to make a U-turn and wasn't too impressed with the return to centre. I also found the centre position to feel a little dead.

The 4th gen Honda City V does seem like a brilliant option. My main gripe with the 1.2 I-VTEC engine in the Jazz/WR-V/Amaze shouldn't exist with the 1.5 motor, but, this is if I am okay with the manual transmission. I have driven the car in its diesel avatar from Bangalore to Chennai and found it really comfortable.

To answer you, blitz_nomad, I test drove both the NA and i-Turbo variants. I normally tend to take the same route by having the TD arranged at my place so I can test all the cars in the same set of roads that I am familiar with so I get a good idea of the different ride, handling and performance parameters. I found the low speed ride to be a bit stiff, but the car manages to glide over most bumps and potholes with ease once the speed picks up. Like you said, lack of headrests (I am still fine with the cushiony ones on the Amaze) in both the WR-V and Jazz are appalling to me.

I generally like how the equipment is divided across most of the cars from Maruti Suzuki and Tata.

However, I do have a general gripe with the following manufacturers:

1. Hyundai and KIA - extremely stingy on offering rear wipers unless you invest in the top most variant (Grand i10 Nios, i20, Venue, Sonet) and that the Turbo of the i10 does not come in the Sportz variant.
2. Honda - rear headrests on the aforementioned cars
3. Mahindra - priority of equipment in their W6/W8 variants of the XUV300 and its pricing

[blitz_nomad]

Originally Posted by chaosengine

I found the low speed ride to be a bit stiff, but the car manages to glide over most bumps and potholes with ease once the speed picks up.

Thanks. Was the above about the NA or the i-turbo? Also, Was it on the XZ with R16 wheels?

Curious to know, Which dealer are you working with in BLR? I've been trying to do the same to get the cars home for TD. But with Tata (KHT & Prerana) the response has been very laid back, requiring multiple follow ups and quite delayed. Was wondering if your experience has been any better.

[chaosengine]

Since we both have similar requirements (more or less), thoughts on the new Baleno/Glanza? Initially I found the Baleno to look weird, but I really love the front fascia of Glanza. If the sheet metal quality improvement claims and hence safety are anything to be trusted, I might actually be okay with getting a Glanza.

Zeta/G is really VFM with 6 airbags (I truly wish we still had the Ford Freestyle), but the auto-dimming IRVM on the Alpha/V is something I really love given that I travel a lot, this feature would come in extremely handy on highways. It is on par with the Altroz XZ+ iTurbo when it comes to on-road price here in Bangalore. It comes with a refined 4-cylinder engine which has been tried and tested.

Thoughts?

The steering may not be as communicative as the Altroz and hence not nearly as fun to drive, but I hear that MS has resolved the return to centre issue.

I've not been get my hands on a Baleno for a TD yet (I visited the showroom a week before they were giving the car for test drives), but I think the ride should be reasonably plush (not sure how it would compare to Jazz/i20).

Originally Posted by blitz_nomad

Chaosengine,

Can you please describe your test drive experience with the Altroz? Which variant did you try out & was it the diesel/petrol NA or i-turbo?

The reason I ask is, you requirements list starts with a 'plush ride'. My TD of Altroz i-turbo zx+, the lack of a plush ride was kind of a deal-breaker. I've documented my experience earlier in the thread. I'm trying to get a second TD arranged by a different dealer, but would like to know what was you experience as well.

The ride in the Jazz CVT was plush. (Unfortunately, the AC and lack of rear seat head rests and AC vents - is what keeps me from booking it. Still not out of my short list though.)

[chaosengine]

The above was actually the NA one. All the test drives of the Altroz that I've taken have been on R16 wheels.

I first visited the Key Motors in Kanakapura Road (even booked one and cancelled it because of the second wave), and one of the dealer guys later moved to Prerana Motors, BTM. I've visited quite a few Tata Motors and they've all been really courteous (Key Motors - Kanakapura Road, Prerana Motors - BTM Layout, and Key Motors - Mysore Road). I don't know if Team-BHP has a DM option, but I could connect you with the Prerana Motors dealer in BTM who has been extremely nice in my experience. In fact, he was the first dealer to arrive at my doorstep with a Harbour Blue Altroz Turbo XZ+ when I called to arrange for a test drive.

In fact, the only dealers I've been mildly annoyed with have been KIA - JP Nagar and Mysore Road (post Carens release, they just seem to not care about prospective Sonet owners) and Nissan (it's been next to impossible to arrange for a test drive of the Magnite).

Originally Posted by blitz_nomad

Thanks. Was the above about the NA or the i-turbo? Also, Was it on the XZ with R16 wheels?

Curious to know, Which dealer are you working with in BLR? I've been trying to do the same to get the cars home for TD. But with Tata (KHT & Prerana) the response has been very laid back, requiring multiple follow ups and quite delayed. Was wondering if your experience has been any better.

[blitz_nomad]

Originally Posted by chaosengine

Since we both have similar requirements (more or less), thoughts on the new Baleno/Glanza? Initially I found the Baleno to look weird, but I really love the front fascia of Glanza. If the sheet metal quality improvement claims and hence safety are anything to be trusted, I might actually be okay with getting a Glanza.

Zeta/G is really VFM with 6 airbags (I truly wish we still had the Ford Freestyle), but the auto-dimming IRVM on the Alpha/V is something I really love given that I travel a lot, this feature would come in extremely handy on highways. It is on par with the Altroz XZ+ iTurbo when it comes to on-road price here in Bangalore. It comes with a refined 4-cylinder engine which has been tried and tested.

Thoughts?

I guess the safe-cars market in India at this budget range is very narrow.. just Tata and Honda. With deal breakers in both, I'm likely to compromise on safety now. The safety narrative on the sheet metal etc.. of the new Baleno is nice, but I'm not lulling my self into that belief, guess we'll know for sure only once it is tested.

However, I found this argument more helpful:

Originally Posted by ron178

The new Baleno has optional side body and head airbags and ESC and if I were in your place I think I might have taken my chances in that. Of course, just having those systems does not mean they're going to be effective unless proven by the relevant tests, but not having the systems definitely means it would perform poorly in those tests. Personally, I don't think buying a car in 2022 without ESC and side head protection airbags is a very good idea, even if it has a good Global NCAP rating for frontal impact. Ideally, you would want a car with both, but unfortunately the market situation doesn't allow that.

Whether you would like a car with excellent NCAP frontal impact performance but no side impact airbags, or one with unknown NCAP frontal impact performance but with side impact airbags, is up to you. Given that the Government of India now does a very basic UN-equivalent 56km/h frontal impact as part of homologation, I think I'd prefer the latter if I were in your place.

I'm considering the Baleno seriously now. If I get it, for me it will be the Alpha AGS, since only the Alpha variant has cruise control. Hopefully, this test drive will happen tomorrow. That aside, I'm also going to try out the Punch (Petrol, Manual). If all these fail, I will just stop the search and end up going to my backup plan - the Ignis.

[chaosengine]

Ignis is not half bad at all - I believe it scored 3 stars on one of the NCAP tests, not sure if it was ASEAN/European/Global. It comes at a budget, has good ground clearance, a reliable engine you cannot go wrong with, and I fell in love with the transmission when I test drove it (I was changing gears just for the sake of it, it was that butter smooth and snappy!). I'd happily get an Ignis Alpha if I don't find the Glanza/Baleno to my taste. Plus the looks of it actually grows on you eventually. Also, like my father says, once you're sitting inside the car, you don't really see the car - only the others around you get to see how beautiful (or not) your car is.

I did like the Punch for its ride and handling, but I found that the engine response did not feel particularly special. Also add to the fact that I drove the Nexon XZ+ right after, it made me feel like the Punch was just really reluctant to get going beyond a particular rev range. Otherwise, it seems like a very dynamically sorted package. I have been eyeing the Accomplished variant with the Dazzle pack (misses out on headrests again), because the Creative variant does not seem worth to me. The only thing though - except for the ground clearance, Altroz XZ offers a lot more for much less. I can buy an Altroz XZ+/Altroz XZ i-Turbo for the cost of a Punch Creative.

Would you be okay with an AMT/AGS? I've been spoiled with test drives of far too many CVT/DCT/TC these days and find the AMT to be rather clunky. Not sure if I want to go down that route unless inevitable.

Originally Posted by blitz_nomad

I'm considering the Baleno seriously now. If I get it, for me it will be the Alpha AGS, since only the Alpha variant has cruise control. Hopefully, this test drive will happen tomorrow. That aside, I'm also going to try out the Punch (Petrol, Manual). If all these fail, I will just stop the search and end up going to my backup plan - the Ignis.

[blitz_nomad]

Back from a TD of the Punch (Petrol, MT) and the Ignis (Petrol, AMT):

Punch Petrol MT:

My experience here was much better than the Altroz. Whatever the reasons, I had no Motion Sickness related issues at all in this, while the Altroz i-turbo, gave me quite a headache.

• Much better Noise isolation than the Altroz i-turbo, there was hardly any engine noise coming through. (The max speed I got to in the TD was only 60-70 kmph given the road and traffic.)
• Vibrations where also much lesser.
• The Rear seat comfort
  • definitely a bit too upright and unforgiving.
  • suspension was firm. But liveable.
  • No option for rear A/C vents, but the AC did a decent job of cooling the cabin quickly
  • Despite the large outer profile and looks, the cabin seems a bit constrained on space. (May be this just because I'm taking this TD right after the Honda Jazz, but I did feel this one was a bit crammed). With the front seat pushed back to the maximum, there was may be 4 fingers worth of space between my knee and the front seat. It does feel a little stuffy/claustrophobic at this position.
  • Will certainly not take 3 adults.
  • (Overall, the team bhp review was spot on the backseat comfort)
  • One surprise: despite the 90 deg door opens and the higher GC, I felt my mom will have a bit of trouble getting in. She normally, gets in by first sitting sideways in the seat (we have to help her) and then taking her feet of the ground and into the car. The problem here is, because of the large profile of the wheel arches, there is less of the seat out in the open even though the doors are wide open. If I finalize on the punch, I will have to get her to sit and check.
• The drive:
  • Smoother than the altroz i-turbo. Lesser Noise and Vibration
  • 2nd gear on speed breakers and traffic - my experience as compared to other cars, there were multiple times I thought the engine would stall and had to get back to first gear. Given, that this is different from the official review - I wonder if there is a lot of 'variance' in each individual car's tune in the manufacturing. Given my experience with Altroz i-turbo (had very poor Noise isolation & plenty vibrations coming i) as well, I wonder if all these tata cars, a couple of years down the line, will begin to rattle a lot as compared to how they are when brand new.

OTOH, this could also be due to my limited driving skills. Overall I felt this will be a slightly more difficult car in traffic. But I'm sure I'll get used to it after sometime driving it.

• There was at least one turn in which I felt the A-pillar obstructed my view.
• The gear stick isn't very smooth to slot in. (as compared to Maruti's).
• The steering felt very light while moving off and at low speeds.

Bottomline: Overall, I liked the Punch. Two issues - 1.The rear seat ride could have been a bit more comfy. 2. I'm worried if a couple of years down the line, it will also rattle like some old run-down vehicle.

Ignis Petrol AMT:

This is my first time in an AMT. The only other Automatic I drove was the Honda Jazz CVT

• The gear shifts definitely not as smooth as the CVT
• But at the same time, Its not as bad as it is made out in the reviews that people put out. Definitely livable and simplifies driving.
• I had one occasion where I did get the head nod and where the throttle response suddenly raced up more than I expected. But other than this one occasion, all throughout the TD it held up well. The route had some stretches of no traffic where I could accelerate from 10 to 70kmph, the gear shifts were good enough for me and it did a good job on the speed breakers and u-turns too. A 2 km stretch with high traffic was also ok.
• I did park the vehicle on an incline (in a fly-over with less traffic) and tried to move forward releasing the break completely with no throttle at all - there was a tiny/small roll back - after which it leveled off and started to slowly climb up and moved forward. I was a little positively surprised since I expected more of a roll back. I wonder if the small roll back was because I released the break in a slow smooth manner, like one would the clutch.

[blitz_nomad]

None of the dealers in BLR that I checked with seem to have the Baleno AGS for test drive yet. Few of them saying that it will be available in a coupe of days, while one chap told me, for TD vehicle itself it will take till the end of this month - says the bottleneck is in maruti's end. A lot of customers asking the same question it seems abt how do they expect customers to book when the TD vehicle itself is not here. Despite that he says, there is tremendous demand and interest in the AGS Variant. Says even booking today implies a 45 day waiting period to delivery.

@chaosengine: Did you have any success getting a Baleno AGS for TD?

[ron178]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

Amaze is based on brio, a platform for developing countries. I myself own one in the family. Hope you have seen the latest GNCAP results? Jazz scored more than the city in adult protection with a ‘stable’ rated bodyshell.

It's designed for India and Africa but it's also much newer and gets equipment like seatbelt pretensioners. Based on what I've seen with Honda newer is likely to perform better. Eg. Mobilio<City<Jazz.

Honda in total sells very limited numbers in South Africa. Out of that I'd be surprised if the Amaze is >10-20 per month. So I think it's really, really unlikely that they've designed another version just for Africa (which is the only other market the Amaze sells) but aren't selling it in India.

When the Amaze was tested for frontal impact in Africa it scored better than the Jazz did for India. In fact it scored >14 points which is potentially five stars, but the African car didn't get a passenger-side seatbelt reminder which is an explicit requirement for five stars (the Indian car gets it). Honda would also have to sponsor a side impact very similar to the side impact legislation already in force in India.



If you were going by Global NCAP (adult protection) ratings alone I'd treat the Amaze and Jazz similarly (the Jazz was also a pretty solid four star result, a few decimal points away from five). I'm just not sure you should use it as an overall safety rating because while the offset crash is quite important, there are other types of crashes and it's not wise to use a single crash to determine the overall safety of a vehicle. Plus, even frontal crashes with partners other than cars are more frequent in India, which are not covered by the offset crash. In a real-world car-to-car crash you might have a negligible advantage in the Jazz because of greater mass. I would still hesitate in recommending either of them because they don't get modern safety technologies like ESC or side airbags.