[blitz_nomad]

Greetings BHPians!

First of all, a big thank you to all of you that make this a great community. The forum is an invaluable resource for beginners - the discussions are all very informative, relevant, and friendly. Ever since I started driving, I've gained a lot by going through threads here and am really glad to have been accepted into the community. Plenty of gratitude is owed.

I intend to purchase my first car this March and would really appreciate some advice.

Some background:
I'm a first-time driver, barely out of driving school. Thanks a tonne to the 'Cool drives within 150km from Bangalore (Cool Drives within 150 km from Bangalore)' thread - I've been practicing every other weekend driving to some of these destinations and have done about 2K km thus far. These were largely in rented cars (revv) - Swift & i10. In driving School, also had access to an Ignis. Among the three I loved the Ignis - swift and i10 paled in comparison.

From a driving skill point of view - I found the drive to Manadargiri via Tumkur road was clearly out of my league, esp the ingress and egress through B'lore at peak traffic. Found it very stressful (though the forest section en route Namada Chilume was very peaceful and enjoyable) - and google maps routed me via many a narrow gully/congested street (to save a couple of mins!) on the way back home at 4 pm. OTOH, I found drives to Kurudmalle (NH-75) and Gudibande Fort (NH-44) enjoyable. A rather sedate driver - In the highways, I found myself mostly cruising at 80 to 100km. Never higher than that.


Preferences (Priority sorted - highest first):

• Safety is paramount - would like a sturdy car.
• Rear seat comfort & elder-friendly - Have a special requirement here. My mother is 70+ and has Parkinson's. She should be able to get in and get out without too much effort. The rear seat should be comfy and ride smooth with adequate thigh and back support. (We are all 5'6 or less and medium build). This will largely be in rides to TN from B'lore - often to our hometown - Villages near Puddukkotai area. Since the Parkinson's we've been to these places mostly in an Etios. That level of comfort should be good enough. She struggles a bit to get in and out though.
• Motion Sickness/Claustrophobia free - This is peculiar to us too. Multiple of us are prone to motion sickness. Happens only in certain cars while totally ok in others - Often in office provided transport service for pick up and drops in B'lore traffic - I used to feel very sick with the old Tata Sumo, Safari, etc. Innova was better. Hatchbacks/Sedan were generally ok. Strangely Honda City - also used to give me some discomfort (not as much as the others mentioned here) - mostly blocked ears and a stuffy feeling. I will of course be test driving the vehicles I choose but would like to get views of others in this forum as well. (Just in case my sickness doesn't show up in the short test drive - I'd still want to be cautious).
• Will be doing a lot of village roads as indicated in #2. Drive comfort matters. We may also stay in Villages for some time. Service Network matters. Car should be reliable - Imagine yourself being stranded in the night with elders in the car in a small road with barely any traffic. (Often routes to village temples are like these - two cars likely won't be able to pass each other - one will have to reverse to yield way to the other).
• Don't want a large car - being a beginner, I'd be less nervous in a smaller car with easy drive-ability. Esp less width. But the back seat needs to be able to accommodate 3 medium build adults comfortably - I'll put up with the width required for that.
• Not likely to do a lot of miles - Will likely do 1 or 2 trips a year on the highway and may drive in the city daily for a couple of months. Should be able to tolerate being parked in the garage for 3 to 6 months without issues - when I am abroad. I suppose this means I'm restricted to Petrol. Is this an issue for turbo engines too?
• The budget is around 10L.
• I'm likely to stick to the same car for a long time (7+ yrs), if I can manage it. (Intend to get the extended warranty and P2P if go ahead with Tata cars mentioned below).

Following the various threads in the forum, I've sort of zeroed in on these three as my top choices (However, feel free to suggest any other as well that I should be considering)

• Tata Punch
• Tata Altroz
• Honda Jazz

The Punch and Altroz - mainly because of all the reviews I've been reading and I absolutely love the looks. A little worried about Altroz on village roads and the drive comfort on the Punch. Unfortunately was not able to get any of these in the rental drives I am doing to actually experience them. I'm really hoping the test drive with Altroz/Punch goes well - love the looks of both. Don't like the looks of the Jazz - but a lot of threads seem to be suggesting it for comfort, so decided to do a TD on it as well.
I'm a bit undecided on the NA vs turbo discussion - given my sedate driving (80 to 100kmph). The team-bhp review of the Altroz turbo - seemed to state they almost felt sorry for NA purchasers. Just wondering, if I decide on the punch - must I wait for the turbo. I'm ok with the extra cost of the turbo.


I'm likely to get a manual rather than automatic (mainly as a learner, I hope to get used to smooth shifts before going to automatic).


Sorry for the longish post.
Thanks for your time and guidance.

[GTO]

Welcome to Team-BHP & to the world of driving, blitz_nomad! I think the Altroz is perfect for you. You / your family will have none of the motion sickness on long drives because it drives like a proper "big car" on the highway with excellent stability & high speed ride comfort. No other hatchback matches its high speed manners, other than discontinued ones like the Punto, 1st-gen Figo etc.

Even if you are a sedate driver, still you must choose the turbo-petrol variant. Reason = that additional power will always come in handy while overtaking etc. Plus, it'll be a lot more fun in the 20 - 100 kmph range. Forget high speeds, a more powerful engine is more fun even at low to midrange speeds.

In the longer-term, the turbo-petrol might end up being cheaper to own as you'll never get bored of it (related thread (How a more expensive car can work out cheaper (if you hold onto it for longer))). Never, ever compromise on the engine if you want to own a car long-term.

[AjinkyaP]

Tata Altroz fits your requirement but I would suggest to skip the MT and wait till the launch of Altroz Automatic.
The teaser is out already and AT would surely enhance the premiumness and practicality quotient of the otherwise perfect hatchback.

[akash_v12]

Originally Posted by blitz_nomad

Greetings BHPians!
First of all, a big thank you to all of you that make this a great community. The forum is an invaluable resource for beginners - the discussions are all very informative, relevant, and friendly. Ever since I started driving, I've gained a lot by going through threads here and am really glad to have been accepted into the community. Plenty of gratitude is owed.

Welcome to the forum blitz_nomad!

Tata will be launching an Automatic Altroz soon and I'd suggest you wait for that car and the initial phase of issues to sort themselves out. Once that is done, I think it would be the perfect car for you considering B'lore traffic (if they can tune the DCT to prevent overheating in traffic). For sure, the 1.2 NA cannot match the Turbo in any way, but I am hoping that Tata thinks logically and introduces the DCT in the iTurbo itself.

Till then, you should get something like an used Ignis. I see a couple of them around at decent prices. Drive it for a bit, improve your skills in a manual car and then move to the AT.

[blitz_nomad]

Originally Posted by GTO

Even if you are a sedate driver, still you must choose the turbo-petrol variant. Reason = that additional power will always come in handy while overtaking etc.

Thanks a lot GTO. That settles it, I will go with the Turbo.
I thought as much too, but I just needed to hear it from someone with more expertise than myself lest I miss some obvious point given my naivety.

@akash_v12 & @AjinkyaP:
Thanks for the suggestion on the Automatic. Several of my Friends too have strongly recommended getting an Automatic. The main reason I wanted a stick shift - is the learning part to get more competent as a driver. I understand this may be frustrating in bumper to bumper traffic (perhaps I underestimate the frustration). In a world that's moving to self driving cars - may be this is an obsolete skill that I am pursuing. But even if not for the actual gear shifting, I'd imagine logging hours on a manual helps you understand cars better?

But that aside - another reason for going manual is the possible delay until Tata gets the automatic out for the Altroz. Even if they do release say in Q2... given that tata motors is not an icon in quality control, I'd imagine it would take a year atleast for issues to be reported and resolved. Being a new driver with no knowledge on car mechanics, I really can't be the one on Tata's experimental batch. I can not delay purchase by a year, we don't have a car right now and with my mom's issues - I don't want to be at the mercy of cab bookings on emergency visits to hospital (Although I hope, it will never come to that - this is also one of the reasons for buying the car).
Going with another car in the meanwhile as suggested, a used Ignis, is sound advice. But given I am new, don't want to take risks on used cars and also don't want the overall hassle of doing a buy-sell-buy operation in a couple of years.

[akash_v12]

Originally Posted by blitz_nomad

I thought as much too, but I just needed to hear it from someone with more expertise than myself lest I miss some obvious point given my naivety.

The delay with Tatas and their initial lot problems are one of the reasons why I recommended a used Ignis first (Ignis because you mentioned that you were comfortable with it). If you still decide to go ahead with an used car, this (ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India) thread should be helpful to you.
If you're hell-bent on getting a manual, the last weeks of this month is one of the best times to buy a car, given the end of the Financial Year. Get the iTurbo, you won't regret it

[GTO]

Originally Posted by blitz_nomad

Thanks a lot GTO. That settles it, I will go with the Turbo.

It'll ensure you enjoy the car even 8 - 10 years from now. If you buy the wheezy 1.2L NA, odds are you'll get bored of it in 2 - 3 years and will crave an upgrade. Hence, my earlier linked article's philosophy that a more expensive car / variant can work out cheaper if you hold onto it for longer.

It's anyway your first car. Go ahead and make it special with that turbo!

Thanks for the suggestion on the Automatic. Several of my Friends too have strongly recommended getting an Automatic. The main reason I wanted a stick shift - is the learning part to get more competent as a driver.

Only you can decide whether you can live with an MT / AT for many years.

Personally, I feel that mastering MT is a necessary skill in India and also, the joy of working an MT on the empty road is unparalleled. That being said, I am a full AT convert and will only buy MT in specific categories (offroader, sporty car, cheap hatchback).

[blitz_nomad]

All Excellent Inputs - Thanks folks.
I'm kind of tending towards the MT. Given the long time I'm likely to stick with it, the AT would definitely make life easier, but alas that alternative simply doesn't exist at this point for the Altroz - since it is atleast a year down the line before I can get it. I just don't see myself buying and selling a car in the time between.

Out of curiosity - If I get a manual now, By any chance will it be possible to convert it to Auto say a couple of years down the line?

the last weeks of this month is one of the best times to buy a car, given the end of the Financial Year.

Actually that is very deliberate. I made up my minding on buying a car Jan itself, but decided to wait till march. I thought it would take a while for test drives et all, so if I start on 1st Mar, it should be in the later half that I will be getting down to booking it - and that would be ideal. But do you think I should put this off by a couple of weeks? I was planning to contact dealers this week itself to lookout and TD.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by blitz_nomad

The main reason I wanted a stick shift - is the learning part to get more competent as a driver. I understand this may be frustrating in bumper to bumper traffic (perhaps I underestimate the frustration). In a world that's moving to self driving cars - may be this is an obsolete skill that I am pursuing. But even if not for the actual gear shifting, I'd imagine logging hours on a manual helps you understand cars better?

EDIT:. I only just saw your post #8 after typing out the post below. I’ll leave the inputs be regardless for whatever its worth. I don’t think converting a manual into AT is something you should premise your purchase on - although I recall (I could be wrong) some thread describing something to this effect - please do search the site for that. My personal opinion - any conversion, even if possible, is highly avoidable. You’d rather just trade in and upgrade.

————

Welcome to the forum blitz_nomad - that’s a really well crafted and thought through what car query.

I’ll break this down into two parts:

Automatic vs Manual:

Personally I’d only only buy an automatic anymore. Its just a convenience I cannot live without and while its a strictly personal choice I’d say think about it carefully from a long term perspective.

One counterpoint to your “competence” point above - buying an automatic will take two variables (clutch and gearshift coordination) out of the equation and will enable you to be a better “automatic car” driver quicker. If you must learn the skill of driving a manual just for the sake of the skill (an understandable thought), perhaps that could be acquired by logging driving hours with a driving school and their vehicle - only for that limited purpose - and without dunking depreciating capital into a manual car, only to want to switch to an AT a few years down the line.

Automatic Altroz:

If you DO decide to go the automatic route, I’d think beyond the Altroz to other CVT or TC options - basically non AMT options.

Reason: Tata + DCT + 1.0 avatar.
Tata is not the exactly the cornerstone of QC and reliability (they’re not bad either) and DCTs have consistently been problematic in India across manufacturers - from Skoda to Ford to even Hyundai.

If it was one or two of the above three, that might be fine. But all these three aspects combined together would make me wary of going for this option. I would instead shift my focus instead to some other option if it must be an automatic. I’m not sure off the bat what the closest comparable options are but if you’re open to this route I’m sure the forum could help revisit options accordingly.

[lamborghini]

As a new learner, I'd look at friendly vehicles that offer good visibility, friendly and linear engines, light controls - especially since you're preferring to stick with manuals - though there is no harm in picking up an automatic IMO as it would result in a smoother drive and be a boon in the city - you already have some experience on a manual should you ever need to drive one in an emergency. Biggest advantage of the auto is that as a learner, you're focusing on the drive : situational awareness, rules, etc. rather than worrying about being in the right gear.

Once this is satisfied, the next item is width. I found the Jazz to be easier to manage - but the Honda Amaze was that much easier due to it's better visibility. The Swift, Altroz do become a little wider so they could be a little painful in the city initially.

I wouldn't be too worried about length unless you have parking constraints - most cars have enough aids to make parking that much easier.

With that in mind, I would suggest looking at the CVT Jazz, the Amaze & even the City 4th Gen too (subject to ingress & egress - though the Jazz would potentially be the best) especially in light of the recent NCAP ratings of the Jazz & City!

[blitz_nomad]

Originally Posted by Axe77

EDIT:. I only just saw your post #8 after typing out the post below. I’ll leave the inputs be regardless for whatever its worth.

Actually, those inputs were very useful. Came to the conclusion that switching down the line is a no no. So it is rather permanent. While starting this thread, that is the mindset I started with anyway.

without dunking depreciating capital into a manual car

Very good point. So, I guess 7 years hence, with everyone preferring automatics, if decide to sell, the market for manuals would be very limited. Definitely something I'll have to think about.

Reason: Tata + DCT + 1.0 avatar.
Tata is not the exactly the cornerstone of QC and reliability (they’re not bad either) and DCTs have consistently been problematic in India across manufacturers - from Skoda to Ford to even Hyundai.

If it was one or two of the above three, that might be fine. But all these three aspects combined together

Precisely. So if it is an automatic, I will indeed have to look elsewhere. Unfortunately I kind of have my heart set on the Altroz/Punch.

Originally Posted by lamborghini

With that in mind, I would suggest looking at the CVT Jazz, the Amaze & even the City 4th Gen too (subject to ingress & egress - though the Jazz would potentially be the best) especially in light of the recent NCAP ratings of the Jazz & City!

Thanks for the suggestion. I do intend to try out the Jazz. Instead of manual, I'll give the CVT a try. City is definitely off - The budget not withstanding, It tends to give me motion sickness. I don't quite understand why - perhaps the suspension... The one I've been on was atleast 10-12 yrs old. Always led to some discomfort with my ears blocked and my looking forward to getting out. This is sort of on the back of my mind for the Jazz too... will definitely be actively looking out for it during the Test drive.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by blitz_nomad

City is definitely off - The budget not withstanding, It tends to give me motion sickness. I don't quite understand why - perhaps the suspension... The one I've been on was atleast 10-12 yrs old. Always led to some discomfort with my ears blocked and my looking forward to getting out. This is sort of on the back of my mind for the Jazz too... will definitely be actively looking out for it during the Test drive.

10-12 year old City would be the Dolphin shape (2nd Gen) most likely + age plays a factor in suspension, etc.
Do have a look at the 4th Gen City as it's a big departure from the 2nd Gen city, though the soft suspension still remains and could be an issue at higher speeds on undulating roads.

[AjinkyaP]

Originally Posted by blitz_nomad

Given the long time I'm likely to stick with it, the AT would definitely make life easier, but alas that alternative simply doesn't exist at this point for the Altroz - since it is atleast a year down the line before I can get it. I just don't see myself buying and selling a car in the time between..

Please give it a long thought
Choosing right engine and transmission is far more important than choosing make,body type and size of the car IMO.
As of today , i would happily live with a cheap AMT rather than an expensive MT.
If not Altroz , look for something else.

I did a mistake of buying a MT car(pre-owned) as my first and i ended up regretting sooner than i expected (I was hell-bent on a particular model for its shape/size ) while completely ignoring most important factor i needed , 'convinience'.

Try spending some time with both the transmission options , and decide what suits you best not just for today but for next 5+ years.

[Kosfactor]

@ Blitz - It is perhaps too early for you to form an impression of a vehicle that would suit you as a driver, it would take some time. You can however find out things like how easy a vehicle is to drive, visibility etc.

Considering the usage is less, MT is fine but AMT \ clutchless MT can also be looked at. Prioritize fuss free ownership, easy driving & Comfort for elderly above other things - a useful car gets to stick around for longer.

As for village area network, well in this budget Maruti \ Hyundai ensures peace of mind, I always recommend first time car buyers to stick to these two brands, just to make sure they have a good experience introducing a car into their lifestyle.

[blitz_nomad]

Thanks everybody. Almost everyone seems to be rating the Automatic as a better choice. Argh. If this means I will have to give the Altroz a miss, then so be it. Will still try it out and see.

Any options other than the Honda Jazz for automatics given my priority sorted preferences above?