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Old 17th August 2017, 16:47   #4066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
1- Everything is proportional and ever increasing in India

2- IDV or Market price whichever is LESSER! will be paid in case of total loss.

I wouldn't recommend a higher IDV after the first 2-3 years when your bumper to bumper no dip covers end.
Just curious, how do they calculate the Market price?
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Old 17th August 2017, 18:31   #4067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavik.1991 View Post
Just curious, how do they calculate the Market price?
Same way as anyone ascertains the price of anything (like tomato, onion etc.) in the market

In more developed countries there are reliable Auto Magazines which publishes used car indicative prices. There insurers usually accepts those values as market price.

In India also this is largely the method. For Eg:- How do you decide at what price you want to sell your vehicle - reasonable people make a few enquiries from peers/similar vehicle owners/workshop/dealership etc. to get an idea and then decide on a price.

Even Insurers have a similar mechanism in place and usually have the going prices of a particular model in their data base - also they use services of Valuators/Surveyors etc. to get an indicative market value for a particular model of vehicle

I know this leaves a lot of scope for ad hoc decision making but that's the way it is.

Best Regards & Drive Safe

Ram
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Old 24th August 2017, 16:04   #4068
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

Need some quick response from fellow members.
My GT TSI insurance is expiring in couple of days and I am switching from Royal Sundaram primarily due to lack of cashless facility at my preferred SC's. Have almost decided on Bajaj Allianz after evaluating few other providers. Appreciate fellow members feedback on BA services especially on Drive Smart/Telematics/OBD device. I have got most of the questions answered from this post here but would love to get some users prospective:
  • Has anybody faced problem while settling claims because the device was disconnected?
  • Is BA mobile app any good?
  • Can I use 3rd party app like Torque Pro with this OBD device?
  • Any other Pros and cons of BA OBD that I should be aware of?

I am only considering engine protection and key replacement as add-ons. I have purchased RSA from VW so I do not want RSA as add-on from insurance provider but looks like you get it by default with BA.
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Old 24th August 2017, 22:56   #4069
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
1- Everything is proportional and ever increasing in India

2- IDV or Market price whichever is LESSER! will be paid in case of total loss.

I wouldn't recommend a higher IDV after the first 2-3 years when your bumper to bumper no dip covers end.
Hello Jaggu, can you reconfirm the point number two? IDV or Market price whichever is lesser will be paid in case of total loss.

I had been supporting a colleague in this matter. What I learnt that there is nothing like 'whichever is lesser' clause. It's just a ploy to reduce the payout by the insurer.

- when the premium is calculated and collected basis IDV, why should the insured at the time of TL claim be settled by paying off the 'whichever is lesser' amount? It's not even 12M that the premium was calculated mutually

- another thing to point is TL claim is applicable when AGGREGATE cost of repair (including towing, storage and customer payable components ) exceeds 75% of IDV. What the insured is actually fed at the time of claim is that TL will only be entertained if insurance company's payout is >75%. Escaping from commitments?

- lastly, when we approached the actual Total loss settlement stage we were informed that the claim is settled 'net of salvage' and with RC.

Meaning that my friend has chosen to retain the salvage (car was in tatters) and will sell it off along with the registration documents as used car and the insurer will only pay the difference!!! This was being forced upon by the insurer who posing to be customer centric said "we will arrange a buyer for you". What it meant was we had to go through the hassle of paperwork involving the RC transfer. Note, RC transfer wouldn't happen till the car which was in shambles was roadworthy to a be reregistered. We were to own the responsibility of any parts missing a till such time the wreck was lifted by the dealer. Be available to have different scrap buyers inspect the car! Moreover the arranging of buyer meant that they will fish around the market for weeks till such time a sweet deal is struck and the insurance liability is reduced.

On reading regulatory guidelines, we realized that my colleague hadn't signed any full and final document/indemnity. Basis the guidelines and with a copy to IRDA we sent a note asking the car to be scrapped since it was not safe to be repaired and put back in the road. Demanded copy of survey report which actually hinted towards the same. Insurer paid full amount IDV as well as parking and estimation charges and agreed to sell the wreck on their own.

What the claims manager informed that owing to GST, they will have to pay 18% out of the proceeds which they could have saved if they could make the deal look as if my colleague was selling the wreck as individual...

Pretty complicated topic but there is a lot in IRDA fine print that actually guards the interest of customers.

Your comments? Experiences?
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Old 25th August 2017, 11:19   #4070
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

Hello,

May I comment on your queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeamerBoy View Post
Hello Jaggu, can you reconfirm the point number two? IDV or Market price whichever is lesser will be paid in case of total loss.

I had been supporting a colleague in this matter. What I learnt that there is nothing like 'whichever is lesser' clause. It's just a ploy to reduce the payout by the insurer.

- when the premium is calculated and collected basis IDV, why should the insured at the time of TL claim be settled by paying off the 'whichever is lesser' amount? It's not even 12M that the premium was calculated mutually
What Jaggu was referring to (so was I) was the wording in the Motor Insurance Policies before the advent of the "IDV Regimen" - following from one of the principles of insurance that an Insurance Policy should only provide indemnity and should not be allowed/used as a tool to make profit.

The IDV clause policies are post 1990s liberalisation in the Indian Market

With the advent of the concept if IDV and Depreciation Clauses - the Motor Comprehensive Insurance in effect has become an "agreed value policy" and hence, the arbitrary decision on the amount of compensation (Market Value) is no longer valid.

Many in the field still maintain the old school of thought and hence, the reference to "whichever is less" scenario.

The relevant section of the "Sum Insured" of the policy should now be reading something like the one posted below;

Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me-mot-ins-si.jpg

Trust this is of use

Best Regards & Drive Safe

Ram
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Old 28th August 2017, 10:43   #4071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post

... following from one of the principles of insurance that an Insurance Policy should only provide indemnity and should not be allowed/used as a tool to make profit....

Attachment 1669552


Ram
Thanks Ram.

Literally every insurance discussion I have ever had with the surveyor or the insurance company's representative cites the above principle. It is not a tool to make a profit.

My experience while dealing with the total loss claim was narrated in my post. Someone had his car totaled. The person is in distress and is in need of a car. It felt:

- that the insurance company was doing a favor to the insured by even considering the claim

- that the demand of the insured to have his full IDV paid upfront and the salvage be the job of insurance company to dispose off is invalid

- that they firstly denied the insured to have access to the surveyor's report. Only on cc:ing IRDA etc the surveyor's report was released

- that the case can go on with layers of paperwork and take months to close post approvals. The insure has to wait.

- that the insurance company is willing to pay the dealership parking charges at the rate of Rs. 250 per day but will still go around the market for salvage buyers for that additional Rs. 5000

The rant can go on. In short, insurance is not a tool to make profit however, it is important that the insured's due interests and predicaments are considered and that the insured's satisfaction (especially in TL/CTL cases) are kept as paramount.
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Old 31st August 2017, 16:55   #4072
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

Folks,
Here's an interesting situation. My 6 year old Vento's insurance is up for renewal. Last year I was out of the country so asked a friend to do a renewal on my behalf and he did it through Policybazaar with Tata AIG for a comprehensive policy.

Either it was due to his mistake or on Policybazaar's side, but my NCB last year was wrongly considered at 35% instead of the correct 25%; which was missed by all, including myself.

I just found out today that Tata AIG had figured out this mistake a few months later and they sent a physical letter to the address on the file (where I don't live any longer) but no email communication, with additional premium charge of ~1000Rs for the difference in NCB discount. Having received no response, they 'downgraded' my coverage to 3rd party and sent a refund check for the difference (again which I have no idea).

After a long conversation with TATA Aig's customer care, I seem to have three options available
  1. Pay the ~1000Rs to change my coverage back to comprehensive and be able to renew the policy with TATA AIG at 35% NCB for this year
  2. Renew my existing policy with 3rd party coverage with 35% NCB
  3. Look for options in the market for comprehensive coverage and 35% NCB. However I am not sure how the NCB and coverage fiasco will be considered by a competiting vendor, say Bajaj Allianz.

Looking for advice - I am not interested in having only 3rd party coverage, so option 2 is ruled out. Advice solicited - what will happen if I go through an agent or policybazaar for a different insurance provider, and 35% NCB? Will that hold when the new provider reconciles with Tata AIG later down the road?

Last edited by ninjatalli : 31st August 2017 at 16:59.
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Old 31st August 2017, 20:31   #4073
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
Either it was due to his mistake or on Policybazaar's side, but my NCB last year was wrongly considered at 35% instead of the correct 25%; which was missed by all, including myself.
  1. Pay the ~1000Rs to change my coverage back to comprehensive and be able to renew the policy with TATA AIG at 35% NCB for this year
  2. Renew my existing policy with 3rd party coverage with 35% NCB
  3. Look for options in the market for comprehensive coverage and 35% NCB. However I am not sure how the NCB and coverage fiasco will be considered by a competiting vendor, say Bajaj Allianz.
Since there was an "inadvertent error" at some point on somebody's part, if I were you I would pay the back premium of 1,000/ and go ahead and renew the comprehensive policy with a 35% NCB

You will not get options from market for a 35% NCB in the market as you don't have documentation to support a 35% NCB for this renewal - as the new insurer may/can verify with Tata AIG -as the old Comprehensive now stands cancelled (I believe) and hence, technically your car has been without a comp cover for 1 year (assuming that being the case).

Best Regards & Drive Safe

Ram
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Old 31st August 2017, 20:50   #4074
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post

  1. Pay the ~1000Rs to change my coverage back to comprehensive and be able to renew the policy with TATA AIG at 35% NCB for this year
  2. Renew my existing policy with 3rd party coverage with 35% NCB
  3. Look for options in the market for comprehensive coverage and 35% NCB. However I am not sure how the NCB and coverage fiasco will be considered by a competiting vendor, say Bajaj Allianz.
Option 1 looks the best. Pay the 1000 rupees and close it.
a) If the mistake was done you would have paid the 1000 last year.
b) Running around to find a different insurance company to give you 35% ncb etc will cost you more than 1000 rupees - may not be in cash, but in time, effort etc.
Go for the Option 1. So your insurance will get 'normalised / stabilised' now. Next year you can look for different company which will be easier.
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Old 31st August 2017, 20:51   #4075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeamerBoy View Post
The rant can go on. In short, insurance is not a tool to make profit however, it is important that the insured's due interests and predicaments are considered and that the insured's satisfaction (especially in TL/CTL cases) are kept as paramount.


Fully agree with you on that count.

Unfortunately many key decision makers in many of the insurance outfits (even multinational JVs) in India are still carrying a mortal fear of reprehensions for even "fair decision making" by virtue of their internal dealings with the likes of Internal Auditors etc. - whose annual performance appraisal is also based on the "number of procedural mistakes" they found on claim files of the offices they audit - without caring for fairness of the decision.

May be our Insurance Market will mature to a better level with the advent of more private players and them becoming more customer oriented to be competitive.

Yes there are a lot of guys in the Insurance field who are genuinely customer oriented and its often ones bad luck that we end up with our claim in a unfriendly scenario.

Just my opinion and not a generalisation in any way

Best Regards & Drive Safe

Ram
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Old 31st August 2017, 21:22   #4076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnyBoy View Post
b) Running around to find a different insurance company to give you 35% ncb etc will cost you more than 1000 rupees - may not be in cash, but in time, effort etc.
You are missing the point; no running required. Everything's online. But I'm questioning the validity of my NCB cover if I switch. Below discussion -->

Quote:
Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
You will not get options from market for a 35% NCB in the market as you don't have documentation to support a 35% NCB for this renewal - as the new insurer may/can verify with Tata AIG -as the old Comprehensive now stands cancelled (I believe) and hence, technically your car has been without a comp cover for 1 year (assuming that being the case).
Is the NCB cover affiliated with a particular clause of coverage (3rd party vs comprehensive vs zero dep) or with the vehicle/ownership?

We get the discount for not claiming in the previous year - so why should it matter if I had only 3rd party last year vs having a comprehensive cover?
Trying to understand the basics here.
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Old 31st August 2017, 21:45   #4077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
Is the NCB cover affiliated with a particular clause of coverage (3rd party vs comprehensive vs zero dep) or with the vehicle/ownership?

We get the discount for not claiming in the previous year - so why should it matter if I had only 3rd party last year vs having a comprehensive cover?
Trying to understand the basics here.
NCB is applicable only to Comprehensive Cover.

The Comprehensive cover from your 'old insurer' would've ceased one year ago and when you mover to Tata AIG. Your older policy (I take that it was not from Tata AIG) would've ceased at that point of time. If I am not mistaken, when you don not renew a comprehensive policy, you need to provide the copy of the Insurance (comprehensive or Third Party) for the date following expiry of the older policy and apply within a certain time frame and get an NCB Certificate (from your old insurer) to keep the NCB eligibility alive.

Now consider the following:
  1. with the older Company you may not get a NCB certificate for 25% as they are considered their cover expired last year on renewal date and you didn't apply for the NCB Certificate within the prescribed time
  2. Tata AIG may give you a certificate that for the Cancelled comprehensive cover with them you had a 25% NCB.
  3. So there is no way you can get a renewal from market for next year with a 35% NCB at best you may get one for 25%
That's why the suggestion from JohnyBoy & I that you renew with 35% with Tata AIG by paying the back premium of INR 1,000/-

Best Regards & Drive Safe

Ram
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Old 1st September 2017, 08:10   #4078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
[*]Look for options in the market for comprehensive coverage and 35% NCB. However I am not sure how the NCB and coverage fiasco will be considered by a competiting vendor, say Bajaj Allianz.
I would suggest to opt for this option. Keeping aside the issues you had with the renewal last time, no insurance co can stop you from claiming 35% NCB this year provided you had a claim free last year. I would suggest check for the quotes online with the Insurer providing cashless claims option, contact them and explain the situation. They will be happy to help you if you are a new business for them.

It does not matter whether you had only TPL coverage last year and this year you are buying a Comprehensive coverage, your IDV should be correct and if you bargain hard, you might get the new customer discount in addition to the eligible NCB.

Meanwhile to play safe, ask Tata AIG to endorse the NCB eligibility.
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Old 10th September 2017, 10:06   #4079
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Maybe not the right thread to ask this question, but putting it out - any reliable insurance agents based out of Mumbai that can help in renewals? Would ask bhpians with reliable contacts to pm me with their contact details.

Thanks in advance
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Old 17th September 2017, 14:33   #4080
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I was looking at quotes from HDFC ergo for my cars 5th year insurance. HDFC's website restricts the IDV to 5.18L and does not allow a voluntary deductible, the quote for zero depreciation and engine protector comes to 12k. On policy bazaar I get a quote of 8k with IDV 3.96L and voluntary deductible of 2.5k withe same add ons. My query is how is it the insurance company allow for a lower IDV and voluntary deductible from a 3rd party site and not their own? Any concerns with going ahead with policy bazaar?
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