[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Product differentiation

Thinking more on the lines of production differentiation, was a bit suprised to realize that they currently have only 3 engines for offer in India. 3 engine options for 6 cars in similar states of tune!

Brio - 1.2 iVTec
Amaze - 1.2 iVTec, 1.5 iDTec
Jazz - 1.2 iVTec, 1.5 iDTec
Mobilio - 1.5 iVTec, 1.5 iDTec
City - 1.5 iVTec, 1.5 iDTec
BRV - 1.5 iVTec, 1.5 iDTec

In comparison of the same segment cars from Hyundai, they have 1.1 CRDi (Grand i10, Xcent), 1.2 VTVT (Grand i10, Xcent, Elite i20), 1.4 CRDi (Elite i20, Verna, Creta), 1.4 Gamma petrol (Verna), 1.6 Gamma Petrol (Verna, Creta) and 1.6 CRDi (Verna, Creta) - 6 engine options for 5 cars on offer with various mix and match combinations.

Originally Posted by Aaron:)

The basic dash was acceptable for a 6 lakh rupee car. What Honda failed to realize that the things that are acceptable in a 6 lakh rupee Brio aren't in a 13 lakh rupee Mobilio. Also, it robs each car of its individual feel.

While the new dashboard released in the BRV and the Amaze brings in a welcome dash of quality and style, the upcoming Brio facelift and Mobilio facelift is getting the same dashboard as well. Even the headunit and controls are similar from Amaze -> BRV.

And individuality is going to suffer big time. Because the dash in itself is inspired by the one in the Jazz and 'looks' similar! Sharing parts within a platform is one thing, but unless you differentiate the touch and feel significantly - buyers will tend to draw parallelisms and their own conclusions regarding the pricing.

A buyer who walks into the showroom for the upcoming festive season would be greeted with this -



Note - Honda Mobilio facelift and Brio facelift pics taken from international unveil.

[Aaron:)]

It's funny how two of the world's largest car makers, Honda and Toyota have failed to crack the budget segment in India. The Etios twins are struggling and the Brio based cars are also doing poorly, except for the Amaze.

At least Toyota was smart enough not to completely abandon the premium segment and the Corolla, Innova and Fortuner are strong sellers. Honda completely gave up on the premium segment, which is their comfort zone. It is also seriously hurting their premium image. They need to get the Civic and Accord here ASAP.

Honda advertises all of its cars with the ACE body structure and Toyota hasn't compromised on safety worth the Etios family. On the other hand, Hyundai's Grand i10 was found to have an unstable body structure, and the less said about Maruti, the better. Maybe Honda and Toyota, in an effort to provide safer cars, tend to compromise on aesthetics unlike Maruti/Hyundai? Something to ponder upon.

[volkman10]

Honda to bring back Accord and Civic saloons to restore its premium image

Expect for India, Honda will bring the new facelifted Accord with a choice of petrol or petrol-electric hybrid powertrains.

The premium car addition in the portfolio will happen in tandem with new generation volumes models of the Amaze, Brio, Jazz and City lined up by the company post 2017.



The CR-V SUV will come with a diesel engine option

http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...ed-400329.aspx

[RavenAvi]

This, is what worries me:

The Civic, made locally, is set to hit the roads in 2018-19.

"with the Civic, the company feels it can get a decent volume contribution and is willing to work on a localised offering than bringing CKD (completely knocked-down kits)."

Going by the recent past of Honda's "mainstream" Indian cars, I really hope they don't compromise on the Civic's quality and dilute it more, just like they did with the 2014 iteration of the City.

For a segment dominated by the XUV500 and in the 20L+ OTR range, the Civic will need all the help it can get to carve out it's own market.

The Civic, for all it's worth, would need to feel like a 20-lac car. Doors jamming, windows not rolling down, dashboards rattling, i-DTEC's harsh NVH levels, etc., will NOT be acceptable in a car costing so much.

I would have preferred the Vezel instead.

[Aaron:)]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

The Civic, for all it's worth, would need to feel like a 20-lac car. Doors jamming, windows not rolling down, dashboards rattling, i-DTEC's harsh NVH levels, etc., will NOT be acceptable in a car costing so much.

I would have preferred the Vezel instead.

I wouldn't be worried about that. I'm pretty sure Honda realizes their mistakes, and they won't compromise on quality with their future launches. Case in point, the BR-V. Yes it's interiors are not good enough for its price, but the car is well built overall unlike the Mobilio with its uneven shut lines and crude finishing. The later batches of the City have been quite reliable (not an excuse for the early batches having niggles).

Honda knows a thing or two about making desirable premium cars. The Civic, Accord and CR-V led their segments, and with the market shifting back towards petrol, they have a good shot at success.

What worries me is that the report states the Civic's launch as 2018-19. That's too late IMO. By that time, the new Corolla will be around the corner and the Elantra would've established itself.

[nik_kapur]

2018/19 launch for the new Civic in India when it launched in end 2015 worldwide. Its going to be in its 4th year of lifecycle and 1 year before the next generation car would be launched by 2020. Seems too late in the day and they should hurry it up and get it here by max March 2017 iMHO.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

CRV is coming with a 1.6L diesel? 120bhp, 300Nm sounds similar to SCross, Creta specs but CRV takes on much bigger competition.

Is that enough to take on the segment? On the flip side, it may just help them if the NGT bangate spreads to other cities.

[nakul0888]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

CRV is coming with a 1.6L diesel? 120bhp, 300Nm sounds similar to SCross, Creta specs but CRV takes on much bigger competition.

Is that enough to take on the segment? On the flip side, it may just help them if the NGT bangate spreads to other cities.

There is also a 160 bhp, 1.6 twin turbo diesel with a nine speed auto version of the CRV. Thats pretty potent enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKNSRh0F73A

But since its Honda India we are talking about I wouldnt be surprised if they offered the 120 bhp one

[turbospooler]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Attachment 1513633

30,000 units for Civic?!
It translates to 2,500 units per month. For Indian market
Already exhausted my 2 smileys but my shock doesn't come to an end.

An analysis of the competition i.e Corolla, Jetta, Elantra, Cruze and even the Fluence don't rake 1,000 numbers, combined!

Drawing an internal comparo, Jazz does about 2,000-3,000 units per month.

Even with 2 year growth projections taken into account, this number raises serious concerns about the marketing team.
Add to that, the production constraints at Honda (the switching on and off of old product production for new due to capacity).

Honda needs to rethink its game plan.

[avdhesh15]

Originally Posted by turbospooler

30,000 units for Civic?!
It translates to 2,500 units per month. For Indian market
Already exhausted my 2 smileys but my shock doesn't come to an end.

An analysis of the competition i.e Corolla, Jetta, Elantra, Cruze and even the Fluence don't rake 1,000 numbers, combined!

Honda needs to rethink its game plan.

I had the same doubt - I actually thought they were smoking some stuff while coming out with this!

But I think it's more about the Indian arm selling a strategy to the Japanese parent in order for them to even consider getting the car down.

Blame bad sales currently due to lack of models. Then blame bad sales of those models due to high price, low demand, bad economy etc. It's a never ending loop!

[Sebring]

Spotted quite a few New Civics which seem to have clicked with its 'rocket' styling. Found it very sharp. They should definitely get it to India.

[searacer932]

Have we ever seen any recent test mules of Honda Cars? I don't remember see any pictures on this site or any other site about spotting any test mules of recent Honda Cars.

Honda's most recent launches have been in the following order

1. BR-V - No test mules?
2. Jazz - No test mules?
3. Mobilio - No test mules?
4. City - No test mules?
5. Brio - No test mules?

Looks like Honda is doing all their checks in their own test factory and no wonder when these cars come to the real world they end up having various niggles!

On the other hand we saw plenty of test mule pictures of the following cars in this forum itself .

1. Toyota Innova
2. S-Cross
3. Creta
4. Baleno
5. Nexon

[nik_kapur]

Originally Posted by searacer932

Have we ever seen any recent test mules of Honda Cars? I don't remember see any pictures on this site or any other site about spotting any test mules of recent Honda Cars.

Honda's most recent launches have been in the following order

1. BR-V - No test mules?
2. Jazz - No test mules?
3. Mobilio - No test mules?
4. City - No test mules?
5. Brio - No test mules?

Looks like Honda is doing all their checks in their own test factory and no wonder when these cars come to the real world they end up having various niggles!

On the other hand we saw plenty of test mule pictures of the following cars in this forum itself .

1. Toyota Innova
2. S-Cross
3. Creta
4. Baleno
5. Nexon

Good Point you make buddy. The Current City was never ever spotted in India and neither was the BRV, the Jazz was spotted i believe.
On another note 2500 units of the Civic means that Honda is expecting the market dynamics to seriously change over the next few years. 2500 unit/month target is fine for the segment the Honda City operates in (8-12L) but not in the 20L segment. Having said that, Hyundai sells almost 10k Cretas at a price point of 14-16L. 2500 does seem that optimistic now does it !

[sanchari]

Inspite of declining sales of Jazz/Amaze/Brio, there is hardly any discounts on Honda cars, while Ford was offering some good freebies like insurance, cash discount etc in May.

[YashD]

Originally Posted by sanchari

Inspite of declining sales of Jazz/Amaze/Brio, there is hardly any discounts on Honda cars, while Ford was offering some good freebies like insurance, cash discount etc in May.

One thing I have seen in Honda over the years, no discounts! Push them a little and get a discount of around 10-20k but officially, they hardly have discounts be it any vehicle! Ask them about City and the kind of faces these folks makes as if you are asking the car for free. The manufacturer needs to understand now that they have lost their so called premium car maker tag now. It's high time they need to get back on the ground.