[ACM]

Originally Posted by NikhilReddy

While I trust Innova quality I dont mind giving a chance to Mahindra for their new crossover XUV 5OO product. Quality and Price go together. Higher the quality higher the price. But how much quality will you want for 12 Lacs.. I dont mind if I get a Fortuner or Captiva for this price but the reality is I can't. But what I get is a matching SUV 8-10 Lacs cheaper and I am Game!

XUV 5OO is the safest SUV at this price point, plenty of space, features, 5 seat comfort and looks are good [this is a subjective matter and based on individuals]..I am game.

I booked XUV and cancelled Hyundai Verna Fluidic.

Congrats.

We are going to see a lot of this happening in the near future. Seriously Sky is the limit to what M&M can achieve with this pricing and the VFM proposition that they have presented.

Have felt the XUV in person and it felt really good.

Had it had an AT, then this is would address an even wider segment in time. Am sure that will come in due course.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by ACM

Congrats.
We are going to see a lot of this happening in the near future. Seriously Sky is the limit to what M&M can achieve with this pricing and the VFM proposition that they have presented.

Hey ACM, would you say it is worth trading your Aria for the XUV? If you were to get the top model XUV for no additional cost after exchange? Honest opinion.

[Latheesh]

Wow, smart question.. over to you ACM.

I will not trade top end ARIA for XUV. Bling in XUV is bit too much to my taste. Even after many thousand KMs ARIA do not have the so called TATA niggles and it looks like a well engineered product. What they missed is few muscles bit quirky design touch.

- XUV front end of XUV is ugly (black and grey colour hide some ugliness)
- Interior plastic quality is good but not great
- Many Chinese lights
- There were few reports of some quality issues with test drive vehicles
- Third row is bad - feels claustrophobic
- Zero luggage space
- Many interior plastics are prone to rattling - especially some dash storage covers
- Interior colour combination and material is not good - but was OK in 2WD entry level (After market leather job will be better)
- Basic body shell is great but Mahindra's great designers spoiled it, but what the heck! people likes it! this is the country where cars like Dezire, WR, Scorpio, Xylos sell in thousands!

NB: I do not have ARIA and not planning to buy ARIA or Xylo in the near future unless I win some lottery/someone gift it.

I must admit that XUV is a true game changer in 8-25 L segment.

[Driver2000]

I went and checked out the XUV this weekend. Here's my impressions:

a) NVH Levels: Quite impressive. We managed to start the car and rev it in the showroom. Without any AC or Stereo, the engine was quite refined - and almost silent at idling.
b) Third row is sad. Family vacations with kids in the back, will be a tough proposition.
c) It does not have outside cladding, a-la Scorpio. So while the Scorpio takes all cycle and bike bumps and scratches with elan, XUV might not fare so well.
d) It somehow does not have the great presence, as a Scorpio does. Soft/muted/curvy lines - might be appealing, but lack the presence when you see it for real.

Overall, felt good to see a good vehicle with lots of bells and whistles. Will I buy it as is - very subjective decision, since I see many points both ways at this time.

[neoonwheels]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

- Basic body shell is great but Mahindra's great designers spoiled it, but what the heck! people likes it! this is the country where cars like Dezire, WR, Scorpio, Xylos sell in thousands!

Well, Aria is also NOT a beautiful car to look at. Has that family sharing front which sucks big time. So to each his own. Aria may score in few places but for a family which is looking for a 5 seater, XUV certainly scores over Aria. We would soon get to know the XUV's sales performance in 6 months down the line as the initial hype dies down.

[harimakesh]

If XUV had succeeded suitable for 7 passengers on board with some usable boot space(this is now a deal breaker for those look out a real family vedhicle for holiday travel) and A/T option ON w6 & w8 (this is STILL possible in near future), these two features along with other would have made the XUV a super INDIAN DREAM vehicle.

XUV Looks are decent for me. I guess the XUV passes Team Bhp unbiased real test review with distinction. Good show by Mahindra as a Indian company.

[AVR]

Been following the Tata v/s MM battle over the last decade and there's a recurring pattern in the way they have behaved all along. Tata does the new market exploration > launches a product > MM realises the shortcomings of a Tata > MM launches VFM alternative to Tata > MM wins!

Case 1: Circa late-90s> Sumo created quite a stir when it was first launched. Today> Bolero rules that market today.
Case 2: Circa late-90s> Safari - the ultimate aspirational vehicle from an Indian manufacturer. Today > Scorpio rules that market today.
Case 3: Aria v/s Innova

Tata's move - With the Aria, Tata aimed at making high-quality product for an upmarket clientele which was never exposed to a TML product. Quite the logical-next-step for a aspiring global manufacturer from India. In the absence of any upmarket legacy, success would entirely depend on merit . Impressingly, the Aria almost always managed a more-or-less positive review for being a well-finished product. So then it could have been successful.

BUT, Where they fell short is the price bracket. So even though the product pricing was good for the feature-set it provided, it wasn't the pricing that killed it. It was actually the perception of the customer in that 10-15L price bracket that killed it. They had never paid so much for a Tata and maybe Aria wasn't able to convince many that they should.

The good part about TML is that they have never fallen shy of exploring a new segment and I respect it for that. But it almost seems they lose interest/concede to MM in a segment post the initial euphoria/failures.

MM's move - As usual they had Tata exploring this option earlier and like in the case of the Bolero (v/s Sumo) and Safari (v/s Scorpio) they have done a good job of learning from TML's mistakes and making their move more intelligently. The MM guys realise potential shortcomings in their move would be of fit and finish and classy looks and most importantly the same perception issue that plagued the Aria. So they decided to obfuscate the consumer with a xmas bag of features and a killer price tag which overlaps with something they already sell so they don't break new ground there. Masterstroke!

Whenever I look at the XUV 5oo even if the voices in my head tell me the quality ain't so great (possibly not as good as the Aria??) and the unnecessary garnishings (Let's face it, a MM model always looks better with half its plastic claddings thrown away!) the price tag shuts those voices up.

It almost seems that Tata is all dreamy-eyed and aspirational in its strategy while MM understands the pulse of the Indian consumer way better which is to induce the "Chalta hain" attitude to its shortcomings by delighting the customer with price.

I foresee the XUV doing very well for itself and I would have also considered it a year down the line if it had a low-ratio transfer case. Maybe the Merlin is what I will be left with as the only option.

P.S. Where do you think the battle will move next?

[NikhilReddy]

Originally Posted by AVR

Been following the Tata v/s MM battle over the last decade and there's a recurring pattern in the way they have behaved all along. Tata does the new market exploration > launches a product > MM realises the shortcomings of a Tata > MM launches VFM alternative to Tata > MM wins!

According to you in the case of XUV 5OO TATAs can turn the tables on MM as this product is launched well before yet to be launched new Safari. But I personally don't think they will be able to match the price. TATA is doing too many things in too short period of time and they have a big list of cars from 1.5 lac to 13 Lac range. Mahindra is playing smart and keeping their focus. Like XUV took 4 years, 250+ prototypes, millions of KMS across the world, customer feedback and value engineering [to get to a price]. Not sure if TATA's are doing the same with their new products.

I feel that neither the TATA's nor the MMs are looking just at each other to compete but they are aiming higher at most trusted brands from the Japs and the Euro's. They can't just fly there and directly match their capabilities in Engineering or quality but atleast they are taking the right steps and closing the gaps.

I will be very disappointed if TATAs or MM cant match them in every aspect in next 8-10 years.

Originally Posted by AVR

It was actually the perception of the customer in that 10-15L price bracket that killed it. They had never paid so much for a Tata and maybe Aria wasn't able to convince many that they should.

Didn't the same customers pay for Safari in 90's. But today things have changed. You walk into a TATA dealer and than walk into a any other dealer you will notice the difference. That is the starting point. The sales folks deal with Nano owners to Indica owners to indi cabs etc and they just talk the same language. This is killing TATA's reputation. Quality was never TATA's strength and they are taking painfully long time to improve. Now this reputation has built over a time and just can't change the perception overnight.

Originally Posted by AVR

Whenever I look at the XUV 5oo even if the voices in my head tell me the quality ain't so great (possibly not as good as the Aria??) and the unnecessary garnishings (Let's face it, a MM model always looks better with half its plastic claddings thrown away!) the price tag shuts those voices up.

Quality is purely a relative thing. Now its all about value engineering era. Where you are having the BMWs move to less quality interiors to be competitive. A meeting point for budget price and acceptable quality is in thing. XUV from what I read and heard handles good, rides well, engine is refined, fuel efficient, space is decent... buy the base model and DC can do the trick later for 4-5 lacs if you want to and still you will not be paying more than 16 lac.. cheaper by a good lead on Fortuner or Captiva by 7 -9 lacs.

[harimakesh]

Originally Posted by NikhilReddy

A meeting point for budget price and acceptable quality is in thing. XUV from what I read and heard handles good, rides well, engine is refined, fuel efficient, space is decent... buy the base model and DC can do the trick later for 4-5 lacs if you want to and still you will not be paying more than 16 lac.. cheaper by a good lead on Fortuner or Captiva by 7 -9 lacs.

If The volume response XUV receive makes Captiva makers Chevy to change their CBU price strategy to CKD or even a visionary local production of Captiva then their current price range of 18-20L will come down at least by 30% thus can sell more than 1K units from current 200 units. Captiva has diesel engine good styling and AWD and A/T.

Honda lost its premium on City similar way Toyota's Fortuner can come to a price level of Innova+3L range. Etios quality could not go well with Toyota badge and the volumes of Liva/Etios are significantly less than Tata's improved quality Vista/Manza.

Indian Car Market has changed is for right quality product at right price range. Japanese or any makers cannot rob Indians like they used to be. Mahindra with XUV and Tata with Manza have come to reasonable quality car making 70% of International Quality.

[parsh]

I think its time to change the title to "Middle-Weight SUV/MUV War" as this is turning out to be a not just fight amongst the XUV, Aria and Innova

Additionally, I think various perspective if discussed pin-pointedly, will help discuss better pros/cons and this thread may become a good ready-reckoner bible to anybody thinking about buying into this segment.

[shankar.balan]

All three, the Innova, the Aria and the XUV are essentially people moving Van type things. All three offer good levels of comfort and handling and overall value.

The Toyota is the most van like, followed closely by the Aria.

The XUV is a jeep-ish looking van - and in our country where impressions matter most, it is likely to appeal the most to our Bling and Flash conscious public. We would prefer to own an SUV ish thing rather than a Van like beast in general. Even more reason for the appeal is the fact that we guys love fully loaded vehicles and zillions of gizmos in them, which we may or may not actually use.

However, the important thing here is the "perceived" bang for the buck factor - we want everything but are very price conscious. In this sphere, the XUV wins hands down because they have really priced the vehicle brilliantly and in consequence will definitely eat away some share from many other vehicles on offer, including the sedans and some higher end SUV type vehicles.

I would say, on consideration that with ref to the interior comfort and gizmos, that both the Aria AND the XUV come loaded with goodies and at decent-ish pricing. The Aria in particular has come down to earth in its 2WD avatar if not in its 4WD avatar.

Hence, anyone looking for a good, comfy, gizmo loaded people mover can opt for either the 2WD Aria OR the 2WD XUV and enjoy the same.

These facts are clearly reflected in the sheer number of bookings that the XUV has attracted in these last few days.

This time M&M seem to have hit the sweet spot and how!

[Murali]

Thanks a Ton Raj!!! this discussion has helped me immensely in planning my next big Car.
I was about to book an T-Innova (Top-end), now i have decided to check the M&M XUV. I will wait till the dust settles on the XUV for another 2-3 months and users inputs will help in making decision easier for people like me who are switching from Petrol Sedan to SUV/MUV segment.

[noopster]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

All three, the Innova, the Aria and the XUV are essentially people moving Van type things. All three offer good levels of comfort and handling and overall value.

The Toyota is the most van like, followed closely by the Aria.

The XUV is a jeep-ish looking van - and in our country where impressions matter most, it is likely to appeal the most to our Bling and Flash conscious public. We would prefer to own an SUV ish thing rather than a Van like beast in general. Even more reason for the appeal is the fact that we guys love fully loaded vehicles and zillions of gizmos in them, which we may or may not actually use.

That's a little unfair. The XUV, though overdesigned in my opinion, looks gorgeous. The Innova never pretended to be a looker and, while some find the Aria attractive, I am not one of those.

However, the important thing here is the "perceived" bang for the buck factor - we want everything but are very price conscious. In this sphere, the XUV wins hands down because they have really priced the vehicle brilliantly and in consequence will definitely eat away some share from many other vehicles on offer, including the sedans and some higher end SUV type vehicles

Spot on! I got into a mini-spat with someone here who claimed nobody would consider an XUV instead of a Laura, for example. The market is very fluid these days and cross-segment consideration is not unheard of. That's why the XUV appeals to me.

I would say, on consideration that with ref to the interior comfort and gizmos, that both the Aria AND the XUV come loaded with goodies and at decent-ish pricing. The Aria in particular has come down to earth in its 2WD avatar if not in its 4WD avatar.

What is the like-to-like comparison pricewise? I have pegged the Aria as "too expensive" in my head and can't seem to shake off this impression!

[shankar.balan]

Hey!

I too like the XUV's aggressive looks. However, end of the day, it is a jeep-ish van type thing - aimed at the affordable luxury seeking, 7 seater family/ people mover consumer.

Yes definitely people will now consider moving up or down or laterally across segments. In that sense the XUV has really changed the game!

The XUV base W6 2WD version is around 11 lacs ex showroom BLR
the base ARIA 2WD is a bit more but more or less operates in the same territory. So does the Innova - one below the top and the top end which are the only ones that can match what the base XUV and ARIA offer in terms of other equipment.

Hence the comparison made by way of price vs benefit equation.

However the XUV beats them all in terms of all that it offers to consumers in its base 2WD W6 Avatar itself. The other big plus is that while it may actually be an affordable luxe van, it still has the appearance, stance, feel, and general demeanour of a typically M&M, genetically tough SUV whereas the other two are affordable luxe vans, even down to their plainer van like looks.

Originally Posted by noopster

That's a little unfair. The XUV, though overdesigned in my opinion, looks gorgeous. The Innova never pretended to be a looker and, while some find the Aria attractive, I am not one of those.



Spot on! I got into a mini-spat with someone here who claimed nobody would consider an XUV instead of a Laura, for example. The market is very fluid these days and cross-segment consideration is not unheard of. That's why the XUV appeals to me.



What is the like-to-like comparison pricewise? I have pegged the Aria as "too expensive" in my head and can't seem to shake off this impression!

[Tommie]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Guys, I have made a small but comprehensive comparo between the newly launched Mahindra XUV500 with the Tata Aria & Toyota Innova.

good effort. It would be good if you can add Top speed, 0-60, 0-100kmph, acceleration and braking distance say 60-0 & 80-0 kmph. These are also very important factors to be considered