[ACM]

It has been killed by the engine and does need a diesel varient to shift numbers.

The 5 L one saves on price can be recovered by a diesel in 3-4 years or even lesser if one really puts on a lot of kms every month.

The vehicle is really nice, well powered and looks good as well - killed by a combo of pricing and engine. The Brand just does not command the Honda pull for a petrol and in that segment except Honda (in the accord segment above) one just can't see any other petrol selling currently and even Honda is not really the segment leader with the Superb showing the way. It is overall also for me as an overall proposition a half segment above the Jetta and Laura and yet not in the Accord and Superb space.

[carwatcher]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Is that really an issue for people with low usage? Won't 5L discount makeup for the difference in fuel price?

5L discount will make up for the loss in Resale Value.
Kizashi was marketed as "India's First Sports Sedan" and I wonder No-one has highlighted that aspect on this thread. While mentioning Laura petrol or Linea T-Jet people go ga-ga about FTD factor, etc. No one is ready to look further than petrol for Kizashi. Strange.

[suhaas307]

I really don't know why people are looking at it negatively.

Sure, spare parts may be an issue, but only in excess of 5 years down the line, or if you're involved in a major shunt. Even then, it shouldn't take too long.

Also, Maruti Suzuki's service points are very well networked around the country.

So if you don't care about rising fuel costs (there are some who don't) 5 lakhs is a huge trade off from supposedly a 2011 car.

You've just got to make sure that it hasn't been used a little, maybe perhaps as a test-drive car or a company car as most car makers would try to push those cars through as well.

[torquing_points]

Lets find a thread on T-Bhp to see what people said when the Jazz reduced prices to one segment below. 'dud', 'too little too late', 'resale value' etc must have been things people spoke about then!

I'm no oracle, but its too early to judge whether the car will remain a dud or not, now that it has been repositioned.

Recall, that the Laura took off after it was effectively repositioned (ie, its prices did not go up as much as others did. Laura used to be in the 18L segment when the Accord was 18L. It still is in that segment, while Accord et al are now in the 22 segment)

The Cielo started finally selling when its price was reduced by 1.5-1.75L

The Jazz now has a wait list

The City again started selling (this year) after the effective prices were knocked down (heartfelt thank you Vento, Verna for this)

The point is.... lets not judge it too quickly. My hunch, too, tells me that this car wont take off -- when I wanted to TD it, I couldnt find it at any dealer. None of my friends have one. And honestly, since then it has dropped from everyone's consideration set. But - who knows -- Maruti just may pull it off...

And the car looks fab. I hope it does better -- I know theres someone here who spoke about how he wouldnt buy this over a Jetta - probably because of brand snobbery - but this car is a performance car -- and a damn good performance car...!

[vinya_jag]

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[noopster]

As per carwale's ready reckoner, the Kizashi is 20.72L (MT) and 21.97L (CVT) OTR Pune. 5 Lac discount will put it around 16L, which is a perfect pricing for it. If MSIL had launched it at this price from the get go, they may not have had such miserable sales for the car.

I have seen the car closely only once- outside the MyCar showroom. The SR said it belonged to the GM. Tellingly, the sales staff had NO CLUE about the vehicle (I daresay I had more info about it, which is actually not tha surprising, and a trait probably most on this thread share ).

It is quite a beauty, though from far people may mistake it for an SX4. The lines are clean, paint job & panel gaps perfect and the interiors look top-notch. I don't know whether I'd plonk down that much moolah on a Suzuki but if the ride were great, then why not?

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by noopster

As per carwale's ready reckoner, the Kizashi is 20.72L (MT) and 21.97L (CVT) OTR Pune. 5 Lac discount will put it around 16L, which is a perfect pricing for it. If MSIL had launched it at this price from the get go, they may not have had such miserable sales for the car.

+1. Autocar print magazine tells me that Kizashi is priced at 18.69 for manual in delhi. 5 Lakhs discount takes it to 13.69. Civic 1.8 MT is at 14.52 If I were to choose among these two, I would defenitely go for Kizashi. Why?

I m not bothered by the supposedly superior Honda badge to a Suzuki CBU.

Kizashi is atleast 1/2 a segment above. Even in the market it was meant for, it was pitted against cars a segment above and held its own pretty well only let down by sales and service penetration.

It is a CBU which means no typical maruti cost cutting. Quality will defenitely match the civic's if not better it.

174 BHP and 23 .4 KgM torque simply eats away civic's 130 Bhp and17.5 Kgm torque.


Slightly OT

Is it a sign of changes to come? I mean a stripped down Kizashi, with a turbocharged 1.6 of SX4 or a new 2 litre K series engine, with the 1.9 diesel doing duty on the overseas SX4 on the cards?

Maruti has tasted blood near the 10L on road price level. Ertiga has generated enough interest even after being so close to 10 Lakhs on road. Starting off from where the Ertiga left seems to be the next logical extension. An executive sedan with Kizashiyish quality could take Maruti to the next price level above 10 Lakhs. Would the market be open to a made in India Kizashi sporting 1.6L turbocharged or a 2L K series petrol engine developing around 140 Bhp and a 1.9 L DDIS developing close to 120 Bhp starting from 10 Lakhs and going upto 14?

Sorry for going Off Topic.

[carwatcher]

Originally Posted by torquing_points

Lets find a thread on T-Bhp to see what people said when the Jazz reduced prices to one segment below. 'dud', 'too little too late', 'resale value' etc must have been things people spoke about then!

I don't think that price reduction work great for any car. The Cielo was not running off the shelf after price reductions. Even with Jazz waiting list the reason is something else than demand for this car. If you consider the sales figures of i20 and Swift which are priced higher and have less snob value than Honda, Jazz (and Fabia) are sales duds. Same with Honda City. You can go through the sales figure thread to look at sales numbers of all the cars for last 6 months. Latest case is Aria which has been forgotten by market completely especially after XUV.
I can't say about general public but are T-BHPians not aware that Kizashi is imported and attract very heavy taxation (110% IIRC) so is it possible to price it 15 Lac from day one and why Maruti want to put so much effort and still want their car to be a dud. Especially when Maruti is known for pricing its product right.
I feel the primary reason (as mentioned by many T-BHPians) is no snob value of Maruti in premium segment. They need to create a different brand like Lexus/Acura and name it something else than Suzuki. As I mentioned earlier on some other thread, Maruti is like Bata (a foreign brand adapted so well that most people think its Indian and no snob value).

[nurni76]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

I feel the primary reason (as mentioned by many T-BHPians) is no snob value of Maruti in premium segment. They need to create a different brand like Lexus/Acura and name it something else than Suzuki. As I mentioned earlier on some other thread, Maruti is like Bata (a foreign brand adapted so well that most people think its Indian and no snob value).

I agree. While this discount makes it a great value for money product, it is more of an effort by Suzuki to clear existing stocks. Suzuki has suffered with lack of an image in the premium segment.

What MSIL should try is to localise Kisazhi and price it in the Civic territory without compromising on the features. Maybe they could bring back the 2L petrol engine. But what they should definitely do is get a diesel for Kizashi. Without that this car has no future. If you look at the Segment of cars above 15L, it is the Superb with a diesel that really sells. Accord, Camry, Teana and the newest Sonata all are duds. Suzuki get that 1.9MJD or atleast the 1.6MJD from Fiat, else say Tata to the aspirations of competing in the D segment.

[VeyronSuperSprt]

Originally Posted by noopster

the sales staff had NO CLUE about the vehicle

Maruti, in it's strategy for the Kizashi, had decided that not all sales people would be trained on the Kizashi. Customers for the Kizashi were to be handled by the Branch Sales Head or the Dy Sales Head. In some areas Maruti directly handled the sales enquiry initially through the product manager who then handed the prospect over to a branch and then followed through on the sales cycle.

It was part of a positioning to give the customer a feel of being treated differently from other customers and which Maruti thought would help in enhancing the buying experience(a practice followed by other brands when dealing with their flagship model). Promises were also made on preferential treatment during service which, being Maruti, would have been kept.

[noopster]

^^ What kind of explanation is that? The same car was on display inside the showroom, I noticed later. How much "training" does an SR need? I don't mean questions like how how does this car compare vis-a-vis the Jetta and Altis? Simple stuff like whether the AT box was DSG or CVT the SR did not know.

It sort of explains MSIL's overall attitude to the premium segment. While it is easy to say "The market was not ready for a Maruti priced at 15 lac", I wonder how much of the grief is self-imposed by MSIL's own lack of confidence in making it big in that segment. The GV is certainly given stepmotherly treatment, and the Kizashi is no different. Other companies sell cars from humble hatchbacks to luxury barges (Honda and Skoda for example)- why can't Maruti?

[download2live]

I feel radical looks would have helped.
Almost all the cars in this segment have conservative styling.
If sports car was the main tag line then it should have been styled on a bit aggressive side.
Diesel would have helped.

Otherwise it is difficult to make people part with money for a "Maruti" which honestly speaking looks a lot like SX4.

[magikrider]

5 lakh discount!!! wow! had i been in the market for a petrol sedan instead of a diesel... i'd definitely consider it. somehow suzuki cars have nice ride quality. and this clearly being a segment above the altis and civic makes good sense.

but somehow i think it still wont work now that people have long back forgotten about kizashi of whatever little they heard or knew. and maruti won't spend on advt. and marketing on this. its already a dead product. and now petrol cars as it is hardly sells. only the car fanatics like us will notice and take a look.

what suzuki needs to do is plonk in a nice and powerful diesel engine in it and re-launch and compete it against the fluence, jetta, laura and elantra and then it can make it look exciting and maybe even give some sleepless nights to few competitors!

[VeyronSuperSprt]

Originally Posted by noopster

Simple stuff like whether the AT box was DSG or CVT the SR did not know.

Maruti doesn't have a DSG and the only CVT is the Kizashi (which the SR wouldnt have been trained on) so for someone selling Alto's to SX4's this wouldn't exactly be a simple question.

[carwatcher]

Originally Posted by noopster

What kind of explanation is that?

I don't think this is a simpler question for a normal SE, though for a T-BHPian, it sounds elementary.
In your examples of Honda and Skoda, both started with Sedans to begin with (and at that time they were Luxury Sedans) and then they proceeded towards hatchbacks, while MSIL started with barebone 800. That's why they are having snob value (even with their hatchbacks) and MSIL is having no snob value with their luxo-barges.