[alpha1]

I think people on this thread are just jumping the gun when they declare tha Kizashi has been a failure and Suzuki is blah blah in higher end segment.

Suzuki never had any intentions of making Kizashi the biggest seller.
Kizashi was so positioned that Suzuki could gauge the baseline sale in India.

Now that they know the game, they should be in a position to tap the market.

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by alpha1

I think people on this thread are just jumping the gun when they declare tha Kizashi has been a failure and Suzuki is blah blah in higher end segment.

Suzuki never had any intentions of making Kizashi the biggest seller.
Kizashi was so positioned that Suzuki could gauge the baseline sale in India.

Now that they know the game, they should be in a position to tap the market.

FYI, Kizashi isn't a big seller elsewhere, despite its strengths & goodness. So can we deduce that they could not gauge the baseline sales in US or other regions as well, & kept making same mistake market after market.

[dipen]

Any CBU car (if it has an equivalent locally assembled or CKD product as competition) will never be a hit or success as it cannot match prices of locally made products.

- All previous generation Camry (Accord beat it black and blue and now Superb too)
- Honda CRV, Outlander. T-Fort and Ford trucks beat it.
- Grand Vitara. Safaris and Scorpios killed it.
- BMW F10 535i. I have not seen a single one
- Pajero Sport. T-Fort and Ford truck and X1 beat it.
- Jaguar XF. E class and 5er sales are more than 10x times.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by animeshb

Though the negatives are the naturally aspirated 2.4 liter engine which would give really poor mileage and I would be wary of the service quality from maruti (not sure if there are enough trained service folks).

How is a naturally aspirated petrol engine a negative? As a driver of a turbo charged petrol engine, I now prefer a naturally aspirated one. There are kicks to be enjoyed in a turbo petrol. In my case, even though it is only a small 1.4l turbo charged engine, I don't find fuel efficiency to be any better than a relic 1.6l engine from my previous car, a Ford Ikon. I find turbo charged engines worrisome too in the long term. God help me if the turbo were to fail in my car though the problem could only be due to the car I own. I am not sure about how part replacement works with Skoda when it has to be with something like a turbo charger unit. With just regular issues, owning a Skoda seems to be scary.

After being part of a fairly extensive test drive of the Kizashi CVT, I can say this; The car is definitely not worth 22lac rupees on road in Bangalore. 16lac on road sounds about right and that is not saying there should be discounts. 16lac on road is the maximum this car should cost. In India, Suzuki at the premium end just does not figure and nor does it in most countries. The Kizashi does not have same part quality as a Skoda sold in India and that is sad as the car we get is a full import and you'd expect that. Though the plastics will be durable, you don't really feel that much of an upgrade from the dashboard materials from a Swift to a Kizashi. Some of the switches seem a straight lift from a Swift. You get a mass of plastic in front of you on the dashboard and it does not look or feel 22lac money. The scoop where you have the door latches placed, inside them, there are small plastic covers to cover the screws maybe, they feel real cheap for a top of the line Suzuki product. The stereo looks like a straight lift from the Swift, just a little bigger but you get better sound quality as claimed in the brochure. When I heard it, it probably had been setup bad so it was just boom.

The gains on the Kizashi are that excellent 2.4l engine. It is incredibly refined, quiet and gets vocal in a good way only if you gun the car. Power and torque (expected on a 2.4l) felt really good even though we were driving a cvt. The cvt itself responded well and paddle shift mode felt quick. Rubber banding is very much there and it is not something that could cause you to rule out the car. The car has excellent passenger cell insulation, dual zone air conditioning that was a chiller, in my opinion the most interior room in its segment though you loose some in the boot, comfortable and very supportive seats. The best part is the cars dynamics. A car this big and it rides and handles well. I did not get a chance to drive the car so won't comment on the steering. The suspension is firm, the brakes were outstanding and it felt absolutely safe even on the limit.

When it comes to reliability, nothing beats the japs and the Kizashi will be as reliable as any automobile from Japan. If you can deal with a hit or miss with Skoda, you sure can depend on Maruti Suzuki to support you for the Kizashi though it will still end up being Skoda expensive to fix.

[animeshb]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

How is a naturally aspirated petrol engine a negative? As a driver of a turbo charged petrol engine, I now prefer a naturally aspirated one. There are kicks to be enjoyed in a turbo petrol. In my case, even though it is only a small 1.4l turbo charged engine, I don't find fuel efficiency to be any better than a relic 1.6l engine from my previous car, a Ford Ikon. I find turbo charged engines worrisome too in the long term. God help me if the turbo were to fail in my car though the problem could only be due to the car I own. I am not sure about how part replacement works with Skoda when it has to be with something like a turbo charger unit. With just regular issues, owning a Skoda seems to be scary.

I clearly mentioned that the naturally aspirated engine would be a negative only because of low mileage and not anything else. On my 1.8TSI on sufficiently long drives (upwards of 5km) I am able to get a mileage of 10-11 kmpl whereas on my 1.6 liter naturally aspirated unit on my Ford Fusion gives me about 8-9 kmpl on similar drives. I am big on naturally aspirated units and the Kizashi was second on my list of cars to buy last month where it was second only because of price. A 3.5 lakh premium for the Kizashi manual is something which I wouldn't pay over the Laura TSI. Also nowadays there is Skoda Shield which provides you 2+2 warranty which gives significant peace of mind. Also, having test driven both cars, I feel the Laura TSI to have better handling than the Kizashi. The Laura also felt more solidly built though the Kizashi probably has a little more equipment.

BTW, I also got a call from the dealer a little while back that this 5 lakhs is completely cash discount and is 13.5 or so for the MT on-road gurgaon which makes it an absolute steal.

I have also realized one thing, if you are looking at discounts nothing beats discounts during March and September and my last two cars were bought in Feb and August. I don't regret anything though.

[supremeBaleno]

13.5 on-road for the MT at Gurgaon. Wonder what that translates to in Chennai ?

But how old are these cars on which they are giving this mouth-watering discount ? While the discount sounds great, picking up something that has been lying in the yard for years makes me wary.

Why MSIL did you have to screw up a nice car with crazy pricing ? Instead of pricing high, and then doling out high discounts resulting in the car getting a flop-tag and bad image, why not price it right in the first place, taking into account the value that the market percieves for the brand etc ?

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by animeshb

I clearly mentioned that the naturally aspirated engine would be a negative only because of low mileage and not anything else.

Once again; this is not a negative. You have to understand that this is a 2.4l unit. That is a difference of 600cc. It will surely consume more gas than the 1.8l in your Skoda. Quite frankly; for a person who can afford a Kizashi or even a gasoline Laura, you surely have the dough to fuel the cars. It should be possible for the Kizashi's 2.4l to deliver about 8-9kmpl for a similar run you do. This is not a bad number.

Originally Posted by animeshb

my 1.6 liter naturally aspirated unit on my Ford Fusion gives me about 8-9 kmpl on similar drives.

This same block in a Ford Classic delivers 11Kmpl. How do you answer this? Besides; the Duratec has never been known for its fuel efficiency.

Originally Posted by animeshb

A 3.5 lakh premium for the Kizashi manual is something which I wouldn't pay over the Laura TSI.

This can be a personal choice.

Originally Posted by animeshb

Also nowadays there is Skoda Shield which provides you 2+2 warranty which gives significant peace of mind.

The shield is good but what is the use if the service is a hit or miss. My colleague/friend dropped the Laura off his list only because of this. He was gung ho about the Laura TSI. After reading the never ending stories on Skoda serivce, he decided to give it a miss. In fact, he dropped even the VW Jetta because of this and the lame petrol variant.

Originally Posted by animeshb

Also, having test driven both cars, I feel the Laura TSI to have better handling than the Kizashi.

I won't comment on this as I have never driven a Laura.

Originally Posted by animeshb

The Laura also felt more solidly built though the Kizashi probably has a little more equipment.

The Laura surely has better material quality on the inside. On the outside, I could not tell the difference.

[YashD]

Seems like an excellent deal! On-Road price would be nearly 14.5 lakhs which is pretty reasonable seeing the specs and features of the car but its market dud and plus a PETROL so don't think people will opt for it and in India brand name does matters. Would be interesting to see if it can attract buyers in this segment.

[Santoshbhat]

The Kizashi with the huge discounts does look tempting. I love the way it looks, the rear end in particular. THe Sx4 ish front end not so much to my liking though.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

Once again; this is not a negative. You have to understand that this is a 2.4l unit. That is a difference of 600cc. It will surely consume more gas than the 1.8l in your Skoda. Quite frankly; for a person who can afford a Kizashi or even a gasoline Laura, you surely have the dough to fuel the cars. It should be possible for the Kizashi's 2.4l to deliver about 8-9kmpl for a similar run you do. This is not a bad number.

About 5 years ago a 2.4l petrol engine in a compact sedan would have got enthusiasts jumping in excitement. But today fuel costs are a huge concern. So much so that the big germans like BMW , Audi etc... are downsizing their engines. Turbocharging has helped petrol engines to make a comeback of sorts after the onslaught of Diesel engines, courtesy : Common rail technology.

I have owned a 1.8 petrol Toyota in the past and currently own the Laura TSI. THe Laura TSI is way quicker than the Toyota on open roads. In the city the eager 1.8 VVTi unit of the Corolla with its linear power delivery and good low end responsiveness was very very user friendly and was actually better at closing gaps in traffics than the TSI. The little bit of turbo lag means that the gap has closed. Both cars return similar FE figures in the city. But on the hgihway its a different story. Where the Corolla returned about 12~13kmpl, the Laura at similar speeds easily delivers 14~15 kmpl. Now if you bring in the Kizashi into the picture here the expected FE would be in the region of 10~11. That is 33% down on the Laura TSI. With today's petrol prices I am sure such a huge difference is going to hurt even the luxury car buyer. Mind you this comparison is only with the Kizashi's petrol counterparts. Bring in its diesel competitors like the Jetta and the Cruze and then its a totally different story.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

The shield is good but what is the use if the service is a hit or miss. My colleague/friend dropped the Laura off his list only because of this. He was gung ho about the Laura TSI. After reading the never ending stories on Skoda serivce, he decided to give it a miss. In fact, he dropped even the VW Jetta because of this and the lame petrol variant.

I think Skoda service has improved quite a lot in recent times. The Laura TSI in particular has been one of their most reliable models. It has been on sale since 2009 and there has not been a single report of any owner facing any major issues with his car on this forum at atleast.

The service being a hit or miss can happen with any company IMO. THere are numerous stories about customers being unhappy with Hyundai/ Chevy/ Ford/ Nissan after sales service as well.

[animeshb]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

Once again; this is not a negative. You have to understand that this is a 2.4l unit. That is a difference of 600cc. It will surely consume more gas than the 1.8l in your Skoda. Quite frankly; for a person who can afford a Kizashi or even a gasoline Laura, you surely have the dough to fuel the cars. It should be possible for the Kizashi's 2.4l to deliver about 8-9kmpl for a similar run you do. This is not a bad number.

You are mixing up FE and Engine size. Not sure I understand why this is not a negative from "only a FE perspective". Looking at only the FE whether it is a 2.4L engine or a 5.0 liter engine isn't my concern. But yes I completely agree that a 2.4 liter or any bigger has its own charms. Even if I have the dough (or not) is not what drives the FE of a car. A low FE is a low LE.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

This same block in a Ford Classic delivers 11Kmpl. How do you answer this?

It could be aerodynamics, etc. In my case I drive both cars in a similar manner, maybe I rev the Fusion more to get better performance. I have heard people reporting both better and worse FE on a Fusion/Fiesta so I won't comment.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

The shield is good but what is the use if the service is a hit or miss. My colleague/friend dropped the Laura off his list only because of this. He was gung ho about the Laura TSI. After reading the never ending stories on Skoda serivce, he decided to give it a miss. In fact, he dropped even the VW Jetta because of this and the lame petrol variant.

Personally I don't get swayed much by public opinion, else I would have been driving a Toyota/Maruti Suzuki Diesel and not a Ford and a Skoda Petrol. My research tells me that things have improved considerably over the last couple of years or so with Skoda A.S.S which I have heard from people and sources I rely on.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

The Laura surely has better material quality on the inside. On the outside, I could not tell the difference.

To each his own.

Personally speaking at a similar price point (which it is now) I feel both these cars are evenly matched (with their own set of negatives and positives). Laura for example is quite poorly equipped and there is no L&K version of the TSI.

[nik_kapur]

I know 2 Kizashi owners and the mileage they get is 6km/l for the AT and 7-8 in the Manual. Both of them are siblings and own a Maruti dealership. I doubt anyone would know 2 Kizashi owners unless they are dealers of Maruti.

[johy]

Originally Posted by nik_kapur

I know 2 Kizashi owners and the mileage they get is 6km/l for the AT and 7-8 in the Manual. Both of them are siblings and own a Maruti dealership. I doubt anyone would know 2 Kizashi owners unless they are dealers of Maruti.

Two owners you say?

I know only one guy who owns a Kizashi. And, yes, he is a Maruti dealer


I did ask regarding 5 lacs discount here and they were like what the ...

No discounts; I will have to wait till the dealer sells his car; not happening too soon, it seems.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

But on the hgihway its a different story. Where the Corolla returned about 12~13kmpl, the Laura at similar speeds easily delivers 14~15 kmpl. Now if you bring in the Kizashi into the picture here the expected FE would be in the region of 10~11. That is 33% down on the Laura TSI.

Was your Corolla an Automatic? You need to understand that the Kizashi has a 600cc advantage/disadvantage and will consume more fuel. It has a bigger engine. The engine will need more fuel. That in no way means it is a gas guzzler. The correct comparison will be with a 2.4l from a Honda or whoever else has one. Toyota increased the engine capacity on the new Camry by a small number. However, it has advanced in technology that helps the engine to be more efficient than the older 2.4l mill.

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

I think Skoda service has improved quite a lot in recent times. The Laura TSI in particular has been one of their most reliable models.

Yeah; the petrol's are known to be trouble free engines. It is the rest of the car that should hold together.

Originally Posted by animeshb

But yes I completely agree that a 2.4 liter or any bigger has its own charms. Even if I have the dough (or not) is not what drives the FE of a car. A low FE is a low LE.

It is not the question of charm alone. How on earth or at least for now we don't have the technology, can you expect a 2.4l engine to be on par or better than a 1.8l engine in terms of fuel efficiency? An engine that much smaller or bigger, which ever way you want to look at it will consume less or more fuel. That does not means it is inefficient. If I can manage about 7-8kmpl from the Kizashi's 2.4l engine, that is a good number. Sure, the Kizashi will drink more gas than the Laura TSI. That is for you to deal with. You surely knew before hand what you were getting into with a car having a 2.4l block. I will not compare the fuel efficiency of a car that has a bigger engine to one that has a much smaller engine even if the cars sell from the same segment. That is just wrong.

Originally Posted by animeshb

Personally I don't get swayed much by public opinion

Neither do I. It was a mention. Else; I won't be driving a Fiat which is probably scarier to own than anything else on our roads.

[Diesel_convert]

Just a thought but does this discount have anything to do with the free trade agreement signed with Japan?

I wish I had know about this would have stretched and gone for this instead of the rapid :(

[swiftnfurious]

From the above posts, I derive that Kizashi is inferior to Laura TSi by most means. I am surprised that the handling is not as good as Laura inspite of an AWD. And even more surprising that the build quality also is inferior inspite of it being a CBU. I also noticed that they dumped the Rockford Fosgate music system for India too. I believe they should have brought the car as a CKD, priced it slightly lesser than the established players initially with a better equipment list & gained momentum slowly.

Originally Posted by nik_kapur

I know 2 Kizashi owners.... Both of them are siblings and own a Maruti dealership....

Originally Posted by johy

....I know only one guy who owns a Kizashi. And, yes, he is a Maruti dealer...

Well, the ONLY one Kizashi I have seen in Kottayam [Kerala] belongs to the MD of a Maruti dealership too!