[ObsessedByFIAT]

Do we have anyone who has actually driven or booked the Sumo Gold refresh? For some reason I am quite eager to know more about what has really changed? Though it is boxy, though it takes a decade to reach three digit figure on odo, though it shouts "Taxi" and though a lot of other 'Thoughs', it still has that charm somewhere.

From a daily drive perspective, including the weekend trips, is Sumo Gold refresh worth considering given the price point and things it has to offer? Don't get me wrong, what I am trying to understand here is, how does one justify the need to buy 'Sumo' as a personal vehicle for a family of four, given that the soul driver of that vehicle is a road freak and loves anything and everything that gives that road presence?

[desertfox]

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

Indigo XL? Which year are we living in. With the Manza launch, normal Indigo & XL range was stopped around 20009/10. It's only the eCS and Indica that people buy for taxis & eCS is easily cheaper by 1.5-2 lacs than the Etios. Only of you drive the Toyota for half a million kms, you will be able to recover that amount.

Yes, Etios is surely a better product than eCS, but that's comparing apples to oranges.

Etios can be compared to the Manza. Manza is super spacious, engine is proven and Tata service is improving by the day.

Whatever Indigo saloon comes now besides eCS a larger one, is only Manza the Saloon car option.

What about Indica ? Will not the Toyota Etios Liva Diesel beat it all ends up ? This is also the economy taxi operators preferred vehicle of choice.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by desertfox

What about Indica ? Will not the Toyota Etios Liva Diesel beat it all ends up ? This is also the economy taxi operators preferred vehicle of choice.

Totally agree. I am seeing a rising number of new Liva/Etios cabs of late. I think this is what Tata is more worried about - shrinking share in the taxi market.

[drsingh]

Originally Posted by ObsessedByFIAT

Do we have anyone who has actually driven or booked the Sumo Gold refresh? For some reason I am quite eager to know more about what has really changed? Though it is boxy, though it takes a decade to reach three digit figure on odo, though it shouts "Taxi" and though a lot of other 'Thoughs', it still has that charm somewhere.

From a daily drive perspective, including the weekend trips, is Sumo Gold refresh worth considering given the price point and things it has to offer? Don't get me wrong, what I am trying to understand here is, how does one justify the need to buy 'Sumo' as a personal vehicle for a family of four, given that the soul driver of that vehicle is a road freak and loves anything and everything that gives that road presence?

Well in that case you dont "justify" it.you "rationalise" it.

If youre really tall and feel claustrophobic in hatches/entry level sedans, this is the only car that will make you happy in its price bracket.take a sumo gold on rent with your family and go on a trip somewhere to see if they are comfortable living with it.

[gauravdgr8]

Originally Posted by desertfox

Whatever Indigo saloon comes now besides eCS a larger one, is only Manza the Saloon car option.

What about Indica ? Will not the Toyota Etios Liva Diesel beat it all ends up ? This is also the economy taxi operators preferred vehicle of choice.

Are we talking Indica or Vista. If it's Indica, then yes, however that's again comparing Apples to Banana.

Vista & Liva are competitors and the sales numbers for the last 18 months tell the story. Both Etios and Liva have been dud performers for Toyota.

Pathetic interiors, typical diesel engine. Vista is far better than the Liva anytime and it's Liva which will be beaten hands down in front of Vista.

Regret the agressiveness, however I have TD'ed Vista/Liva/Swift/Micra/Ritz/i20 back to back and hence the conclusion.

[prashanthyr]

Apologies - this is a long post.


I am posting this here and not creating a new thread as Horizon Next is an initiative aimed at reviving Tata Motors.

Tata motors has become very famous worldwide due to two diametrically opposite events - as the maker of the World's cheapest car (Nano) and as a very benevolent owner / saviour of Jaguar Land Rover, storied British brands that have only now started realizing their full potential.

It's tempting to look at the various divisions of Tata Motors as children
a. Eldest Child - CV division - the perennial breadwinner for the family, with extremely strong brand equity and not much competition
b. Youngest Child - Nano - a classic case of overpromise, seriously under deliver, but pampered to the hilt
c. the new adopted child - Jaguar Land Rover - eager to please a benevolent parent is pulling out all the stops.
d. Finally, the much neglected middle child - the India car business - neglected and fighting a losing battle in a vicious market dominated by 800 pound gorillas like Maruti, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota etc

The Nano is likely a lost cause, unless it can be really reinvented as a 'value' leader and not a 'cut price - cant afford anything else' poor man's car. This leaves the India car business out in the cold again - after all the 'value' leader was its USP for a long time - remember how the Indica was marketed as the car with the Amby's interior space, the Zen's outer dimension and 800's running costs?

So what can be done to revive the middle child and ensure it becomes an above average, if not top performer in the class?
Short Term -
a. Rationalize car models / variants like its going out of fashion. Drop variants which have limited sales (Why does one need two different versions of the same engine - TDI in the Vista and CR in the Indica V2. Surely this effort and money can be channelized to better use?)
b. Clean up Sales and Marketing - some this is simple hygiene - get all microsites to look and feel the same. You don’t need differentiation between an Indica V2 and Vista microsites - TCS can help. Also, if videos/pics are needed, please shoot and upload professional videos/pics. Not copied from YouTube. Ex: eV2 website has a video from Asianet Malayalam. How's that for bad marketing?)
c. Talk to vendors who supply parts that a customer touches and feels everyday - ex: Dashboard, handles, switches etc. Get quality on these up by at least 2 notches. Surely, this is simply a matter of using better quality raw material, given that the designs are pretty decent to begin with?
d. Stop wasting time, effort and money on model 'Refresh'. Everyone can see through the 'All New' gimmickry

Medium to Long Term -
a. If work hasn’t started yet, start development on a new modular platform /architecture ASAP!
b. Build at least 5 models (Hatchback, Sedan, Wagon, MPV, CUV) off a single platform, with as many shared parts as possible - learn from your own past (Indica, Indigo, Marina) and from others - both at home (Swift, Dzire, SX4, Ritz, Ertiga) and abroad (VW is the gold standard - see how many platforms / parts are shared across VW, Skoda, Seat, Audi)
c. Drop the whole Safari / Aria platform and use a Defender platform to build a Bolero and XUV challenger
d. Set up a European Design Studio which can work on both JLR and Tata Motors products
e. Recruit and empower a top notch quality management team who can make a difference at all stages - right from design to manufacture to sales and service.

These are but a set of random thoughts from what one would call a Tata Fan boy. You are free to disagree with any or everything about this column and offer your own solutions. As long as they result in Tata Motors becoming one of the best in India and the world, I don’t mind!

[subraiyr]

Originally Posted by prashanthyr

Short Term -
a. Rationalize car models / variants like its going out of fashion. Drop variants which have limited sales (Why does one need two different versions of the same engine - TDI in the Vista and CR in the Indica V2. Surely this effort and money can be channelized to better use?)

I guess at some point of time TM should look at 2 different segments. 1 segment would be the taxi/cab markets which can still work off the Indica and 2 would be the general public who would work with the Vista. To this effect features and marketing should be different. A premium look and feel for the Vista with metallic finish, body garnishes, premium leather upholstery can be done to start off with. Indica obviously would not have any of this

Similarly the same needs to be applied for other product lines. My 2 bits here would be as follows
Category 1 - General Public
Nano - Should come up with a nano+ version which would be pegged against the altos and the eons of the world
Vista
Manza
1 mini suv - please dont create a chopped version of the Sumo like the Quanto
Sub category - SUV (Storme, Dicor, Aria)

Category 2 - Taxi/Cabs
Indica
Indigo
Sumo Gold
Sumo Grande
Venture

Category 3 - Pick ups
Xenon

Medium to Long Term -

Drop the whole Safari / Aria platform and use a Defender platform to build a Bolero and XUV challenger

Not sure why since the new platform which Aria is built on is actually much better and the Storme is also based on that


Finally, create that marketing that is much needed. Differentiate and market your products.

[lifebuoy]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Totally agree. I am seeing a rising number of new Liva/Etios cabs of late. I think this is what Tata is more worried about - shrinking share in the taxi market.

+1 to that. I would have also been a worried guy if I were in TML. The number of Etios and Liva taxis is increasing by the day.

I also feel that the Indica / go platform needs a serious makeover or should be replaced. The Qualis is a live example, Toyota made a fool of us by introducing a bread box to earn their setup cost (by getting a depreciated and useless plant / machinery from some country where it was kicked out - maybe due to pollution norms, etc). Then they launch the popular and succesful Innova - pure business sense indeed ! But their "value engineering" gibberish in terms of the Etios and Liva has fallen flat !

[prashanthyr]

Originally Posted by subraiyr

Not sure why since the new platform which Aria is built on is actually much better and the Storme is also based on that

My thought process is as follows - Tata is anyway going to create a platform for the Defender and not going to use the Aria / Safari platform. Why waste precious resources on creating two independent platforms for what will essentially be similar vehicles aimed at the same sector of the market?

[drsingh]

Even after a month of launch ,the upgraded vehicles are not available for test drives or for visual inspection.The local TATA agency has no idea about new features or new prices even though they are already up on the website.

Only the Dealership at Ludhiana has had product training 2-3 days ago and I was asked to come after a month if I wanted to TD the new SUMO.


Any spike in interest created by this big-bang 'horizonext' event has all gone to waste with no products available after launch.

This event was probably a PR exercise to get media attention and to placate investors.

Even the few customers willing to give their dated but "all new" products a look have nothing to look forward to at the showrooms.

Except a few next gen showrooms in metros with video walls.

[gopalnayak]

Now, Tata Motors to launch 8 New Cars as per this article:

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/cnb...ts_923550.html

Important Part:
"They unveiled eight new cars which will come on entirely new platforms. Four cars will be sedans and three hatchbacks. A new look nano is also likely to be unveiled."

[GrammarNazi]

Originally Posted by gopalnayak

Now, Tata Motors to launch 8 New Cars as per this article:
...Important Part:
"They unveiled eight new cars which will come on entirely new platforms. Four cars will be sedans and three hatchbacks. A new look nano is also likely to be unveiled."

How can is be..? After the Horizonext event he said new products will only be launched in 2015. That interview is there in YouTube. Some kind of shock & awe strategy by Karl Slym to regain investor confidence?

Another video they tweeted :

http://youtu.be/-yMfJNgThzI

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by GrammarNazi

How can is be..? After the Horizonext event he said new products will only be launched in 2015. That interview is there in YouTube. Some kind of shock & awe strategy by Karl Slym to regain investor confidence?

Another video they tweeted : http://Youtu.be/-yMfJNgThzI

I think till 2015 there would be more of the facelifts, like the Vista & Manza, on the lines of concept shown in 2012 Auto Expo, & the dressing up of Sumo Grande (I seriously hope they make it look little manly over the slimmer front fascia that it sports at the moment, albeit like the Mitsu Pajero, prior to Pajero Sport that we have at present).

[PNTLovesNano]

Originally Posted by gopalnayak

Now, Tata Motors to launch 8 New Cars as per this article:

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/cnb...ts_923550.html

Important Part:
"They unveiled eight new cars which will come on entirely new platforms. Four cars will be sedans and three hatchbacks. A new look nano is also likely to be unveiled."

No test mules, no information till a month back. It is still possible for Tatas to launch entirely new platforms? May be they were testing these cars under the Indica clothings and the future cars will be called as Indica P2, P3, P4, and the sedans as Indigo P2-P5

[Sherlocked]

I am not aware if this has been discussed here before or not but I stumbled upon an article on Business Standard which states that soon Tata Nano will be available for online purchase and it states that the company has already test-marketed selling a few units through the online medium.

SOURCE

"We have some interesting instances where parents have bought the Nano for their sons/daughters. This is a very interesting trend," said Ranjit Yadav, president (passenger vehicle business unit), Tata Motors.

Is it a part of their Horizonext strategy ?