[karan561]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

[*]530d with 3.0 Litre in-line six cylinder Diesel develops 258 hp of power and 540 nm of peak torque. BMW claimed 0-100kph time is 5.8 Seconds, top speed is electronically limited at 250kph.

[*]525d is the latest victim of the downsizing trend. It no longer comes with the 6 cylinder engine but gets a more powerful version of the 2.0 Litre in-line four cylinder Diesel. In 525d it develops 218 hp of power and 450 nm of peak torque. BMW claimed 0-100kph time is 6.9 Seconds, top speed is 243kph.

[*]520d with 2.0 Litre in-line four cylinder Diesel develops 184 hp of power and 380 nm of peak torque. BMW claimed 0-100kph time is 7.9 Seconds, top speed is at 231kph.

Originally Posted by 275BHP

Didn't the pre-facelift 520d have a 0-100 acceleration time of about 8.1 seconds?

I realise 0.2 seconds isn't a big difference but what I'm curious about is how they managed this increase in acceleration (7.9 seconds to reach the 100kmph mark in the new 520d) considering the fact that the engine and the transmission haven't changed in the facelifted model. Or is there something I'm missing here?

Just realised, even the claimed top speed on the facelifted model is 231 kmph while that on the pre facelift 520d was 225 kmph (if I remember correctly).

I fail to understand the 0-100 timings myself as the pre facelift 5'ers having same engines & gearbox were slower then the above quoted figures.

Heres a screenshot of the same of all 3 diesels on offer from non updated i.e. pre facelift figures from BMW India website (Navnit Motors)

520d;

^Where as the LCI quotes as 7.9 secs

525d;

^ Where as LCI quotes as 6.9 secs

530d;

^ Where as LCI quotes as 5.8 secs

We know of BMW under rating their performance figures be it HP ratings or 0-100 timings.

So may be with the LCI, BMW chose not to manipulate the figures & give the actual figures itself ?

Only BMW can explain the difference here

[dkaile]

I think this is the right time to get hands on any old stocks of the 5ver lying around. It could come in hand below 40 even.

[RickyC]

Originally Posted by Bluebeem

Same Strategy as the New 3 I reckon. I bought the 3 series for 32.5 ex showroom. After that it was immediately increased to 34.5 ex showroom and discounts range between 5-6 lacs on the 3 series today, less than a year after launch.

As far as the new 5 is concerned, LEDs are there even on the 3 series luxury and sport line. Even the internal lighting choices in the new 5 series have been present on the 3 series since last year. Why would i pay 5-6 lacs extra for 2-5 features which are present even on the lower model 3 series?

Completely Agree that E class and A6 will come out as clear winners in this category. Even if BMW does offer 5-7 lacs discount to match E class, the officially announced price tags which have been published all over the media, will drive a majority of the customers (especially first time customers) away even before they enter the showroom.

Many customers never even walk into showrooms if they feel the price on paper is unjustified or out of their budget. Its the same reason i never considered a jaguar XF even though i liked the car.

I wonder if 5-7L discount is going to help their cause because even then it would touch OTR 46-47L which is clearly 5L over A6 current OTR.
Typically, a prospective BMW customer is willing to pay a little extra over Audi, however not to this extent. As for E-Class, I think that the features and power output that they are offering at the current price makes it a fair value proposition although there are no discounts.
Let's see how this market unfolds in the near future...

[Bluebeem]

Originally Posted by RickyC

I wonder if 5-7L discount is going to help their cause because even then it would touch OTR 46-47L which is clearly 5L over A6 current OTR.
Typically, a prospective BMW customer is willing to pay a little extra over Audi, however not to this extent. As for E-Class, I think that the features and power output that they are offering at the current price makes it a fair value proposition although there are no discounts.
Let's see how this market unfolds in the near future...

Agree. From a strictly production POV the 520d is going to cost them not more than a lac over the previous one to produce, factoring in the all the new features. So To counter competition, You can expect BMW to offer even higher discounts and dilute the brand value even more in the process.

The new E class has immense Road presence over the 5 series and the sporty stance has managed to impress many younger prospective buyers who wouldn't go for the E class otherwise.

Positioning and snob value is everything in this lower engine spec category (520d/A6 2.0), and for the same snob value, I get everything that BMW offers, plus the immensely comfortable Airomatic suspension on the A6 for about 8-9 lacs less. As sorry as i am to say this, at these prices, inspite of being a BMW fanatic, i would go for the E class or A6.

[RickyC]

Originally Posted by Bluebeem

Agree. From a strictly production POV the 520d is going to cost them not more than a lac over the previous one to produce, factoring in the all the new features. So To counter competition, You can expect BMW to offer even higher discounts and dilute the brand value even more in the process.

The new E class has immense Road presence over the 5 series and the sporty stance has managed to impress many younger prospective buyers who wouldn't go for the E class otherwise.

Positioning and snob value is everything in this lower engine spec category (520d/A6 2.0), and for the same snob value, I get everything that BMW offers, plus the immensely comfortable Airomatic suspension on the A6 for about 8-9 lacs less. As sorry as i am to say this, at these prices, inspite of being a BMW fanatic, i would go for the E class or A6.

While I agree about Audi being more 'fairly priced', it somehow does lack that solidity and the feeling of luxury engulfing you while you are sitting on the back, I think the 200kgs lower kerb weight clearly shows in the way the doors shut and the car is made. However, one does get that feeling of robustness in a 5 er which is still not close to what you feel in the E. The facelifted E has clearly brought into it's fold a younger customer with 'deeper pockets' apart from the backseat customer with old generation money who has always been a Merc user.
Clearly, BMW 5er was and is still OK at 44-42L bracket but would look overpriced at 46L-47L levels as it would then be inching closer to E Class territory. Add to this the added stiff ride due to 18" RFT's and suddenly back seat customers may like to look the other way.

[Bluebeem]

Originally Posted by karan561

I fail to understand the 0-100 timings myself as the pre facelift 5'ers having same engines & gearbox were slower then the above quoted figures.

Heres a screenshot of the same of all 3 diesels on offer from non updated i.e. pre facelift figures from BMW India website (Navnit Motors)

520d;
Attachment 1151489
^Where as the LCI quotes as 7.9 secs

525d;
Attachment 1151490
^ Where as LCI quotes as 6.9 secs

530d;
Attachment 1151491
^ Where as LCI quotes as 5.8 secs

We know of BMW under rating their performance figures be it HP ratings or 0-100 timings.

So may be with the LCI, BMW chose not to manipulate the figures & give the actual figures itself ?

Only BMW can explain the difference here

Similar to the 3. In October last year, the detailed spec sheet said 0-100 in 7.6 secs , now the new spec sheet says 7.4 seconds.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by Bluebeem

As far as the new 5 is concerned, LEDs are there even on the 3 series luxury and sport line. Even the internal lighting choices in the new 5 series have been present on the 3 series since last year.

I don't think the 3 series has LED headlights, it has xenon headlights. The 5 has full LED headlights, while the 3 has only LED corona rings.

Originally Posted by karan561

I fail to understand the 0-100 timings myself as the pre facelift 5'ers having same engines & gearbox were slower then the above quoted figures.

I found it odd too. At first I thought they may be quoting the 0-60mph figures (0-100 is 62mph), but then I saw they are quoting the same for 0-60mph and 0-62mph (which is 0-100). I don't understand how it can have the same time for 2 different speeds.

[lemedico]

BMW has done a good job with touching up on the exterior and interior details. But the job should have been left done just there. Pricing was sort of alright pre-facelift but the new figures immediately scare a lot of potential buyers off IMO

Two things I personally shudder to think of..The new lowered air intake. Haven't the engineers been reading the newspapers with all the reports of massive water-logging on the roads thus leading to engine seizures in such cars. Lower air intakes only just increase the risk of water being sucked into the engine!

Secondly, no doubt Audi A6 has the smoother ride thanks to the brilliant air-suspension. Yes the BMW has been classified as a driving enthusiast's car but these vehicles are majorly used to chauffeur the rear seated uncles and aunties around town. Add to that 18 inched RFTs and there we have a recipe for uneasiness

[samyakmodi]

there goes BMW's chances of clawing back in the game.

the new E has definitely upped the game by quiet a few notches, and more are expected soon. The A6 though doesn't give the solid "thud" noise as the other 2 - but is quiet lighter, quicker, and more appealing and refreshing to the eye as compared to the beemer atleast. add to it the substantial difference in price!!

with the new generation of cars MB is bringing out - the other 2 germans should seriously reconsider their playing strategies. just putting out "M" badging and adding some extra kit won't help them a lot.

OT :: onething i don't quiet understand - would be glad if someone here helps me understand it better - if a car comes with a different kind of bumpers OR alloys - why should the price difference be so much? i mean aren't they just replacing them with a different design? manufacturing cost of any of the design can't be so high as the basic difference is usually just the die/mould. more or less the material added is the same, and the difference might be in the efforts to finish off or machine the new design. definitely the cost can't be so high.
as far as the LEDs are concerned - weren't they a technological breakthrough because they were more reliable, cheaper and had substantially more life and almost no maintenance? ok - it might be that some electronics might have been changed and some more electrical wires might have been added - but then adding a couple of lacs doesn't justify it as i am sure they are still using copper wires and not gold wires!!

point to ponder - open for discussion.

[lemedico]

All that being said, the 5er is an extremely capable car. It's very successful all over the world and has gained immense praise from Clarkson, Hammond and May.

This leads me to an opinion, why would somebody "need" to buy the 7er!? The 5er is built on the very same platform as the 7er, styled so similarly and has been called a baby 7er even pre-facelift. One could simply buy the 530d with all its gadgets and glory and save a whopping 40 lacs! Both the 530 and 730 have a 3l turbo diesel, rear seat entertainment, the same dashboard and so on. Of course there are people who 'have money and will spend', falsely justifying their "need" for a 7er but the more sensible chap would understand what I mean

[Bluebeem]

Originally Posted by samyakmodi

OT :: onething i don't quiet understand - would be glad if someone here helps me understand it better - if a car comes with a different kind of bumpers OR alloys - why should the price difference be so much? i mean aren't they just replacing them with a different design? manufacturing cost of any of the design can't be so high as the basic difference is usually just the die/mould. more or less the material added is the same, and the difference might be in the efforts to finish off or machine the new design. definitely the cost can't be so high.
as far as the LEDs are concerned - weren't they a technological breakthrough because they were more reliable, cheaper and had substantially more life and almost no maintenance? ok - it might be that some electronics might have been changed and some more electrical wires might have been added - but then adding a couple of lacs doesn't justify it as i am sure they are still using copper wires and not gold wires!!

point to ponder - open for discussion.

You're right. Unfortunately of the many pricing models present today, Most upmarket brands are able to charge premiums because of their "product positioning" and pricing them accordingly. Think Louis Vuitton, Tumi etc. There is no way they can justify their cost by the raw materials used.

If you go on a "cost plus margin model", The 520d cannot justify a 9-10 lac price difference over the 320d. Same is the case with Merc and Audi.

This is classic car marketing strategy. When its time to push prices up, do a subtle "facelift" and market it as the "completely facelifted" new model. Think of C class, E class and Now 5 series.

[AdiSinghV12]

Originally Posted by samyakmodi

OT :: onething i don't quiet understand - would be glad if someone here helps me understand it better - if a car comes with a different kind of bumpers OR alloys - why should the price difference be so much? i mean aren't they just replacing them with a different design? manufacturing cost of any of the design can't be so high as the basic difference is usually just the die/mould. more or less the material added is the same, and the difference might be in the efforts to finish off or machine the new design. definitely the cost can't be so high.
as far as the LEDs are concerned - weren't they a technological breakthrough because they were more reliable, cheaper and had substantially more life and almost no maintenance? ok - it might be that some electronics might have been changed and some more electrical wires might have been added - but then adding a couple of lacs doesn't justify it as i am sure they are still using copper wires and not gold wires!!

point to ponder - open for discussion.

It's just a premium one pays for the exclusivity. There are other minor changes as well which can boost overall performance even though by a very very small margin, for example let's take the pic I uploaded for example. It's the M-Sport front bumper for the F30. The circled parts are air ducts designed to suck in extra air into the engine. Having said that, they are still kinda overpriced but the option of buying back the stock bumper offered by the dealer makes it a satisfying deal hence pursuing a buyer to go for it.

[275BHP]

Originally Posted by lemedico

This leads me to an opinion, why would somebody "need" to buy the 7er!? The 5er is built on the very same platform as the 7er, styled so similarly and has been called a baby 7er even pre-facelift. One could simply buy the 530d with all its gadgets and glory and save a whopping 40 lacs! Both the 530 and 730 have a 3l turbo diesel, rear seat entertainment, the same dashboard and so on. Of course there are people who 'have money and will spend', falsely justifying their "need" for a 7er but the more sensible chap would understand what I mean

Well, I shared the same opinion you have till I test drove the 730 last week. I'm not talking about the people who buy a 7er just to spend money, but for the others, one thing lacking in the 5 is back seat comfort. So I'm guessing someone who genuinely wants to buy a 7 is looking at rear seat comfort + a sporty vehicle, whenever he feels like driving. I was told by the salesman that the facelifted 7 has completely new air suspensions too. The ride was definitely more comfortable than the 5. Apart from that many feel good features like seat massagers, soft door close system, refrigerator, laptop table for the rear seat passenger and most importantly, separate dual zone ac controls at the back are there in the 7 that's missing in the 5.

[Bluebeem]

Originally Posted by lemedico

All that being said, the 5er is an extremely capable car. It's very successful all over the world and has gained immense praise from Clarkson, Hammond and May.

This leads me to an opinion, why would somebody "need" to buy the 7er!? The 5er is built on the very same platform as the 7er, styled so similarly and has been called a baby 7er even pre-facelift. One could simply buy the 530d with all its gadgets and glory and save a whopping 40 lacs! Both the 530 and 730 have a 3l turbo diesel, rear seat entertainment, the same dashboard and so on. Of course there are people who 'have money and will spend', falsely justifying their "need" for a 7er but the more sensible chap would understand what I mean

As i pointed out above, it will always be difficult to justify the price of any luxury item if you think from a "cost plus" perspective.

That said, i don't think the 5 series and 7 series are fairly comparable . While the heart of the car is same, thats all that's same. The potential buyers for the 530d v/s the 730d would be quite different.

A person looking for a sporty, powerful, self driven only, diesel family car would go for a 530d. I say self driven only, because the 5 series isnt the most comfortable car around when you're in the backseat. The hard suspension adds to the discomfort on bumpy roads.

A potential 7 series buyer has comfort/backseat space on the top of their list and would probably be chauffeured around most of the time. Hence the obvious meticulous attention to detail on the backseats on 7er - idrive, massagers, 4 zone aircon etc.
The 5 series lacks in that department, maybe intentionally so to make way for the 7

Plus there's the Social aspects of "arriving" in a 5 series v/s a 7 series.

[1967'stang]

Agree. The M-sport pack makes the 530d drool stuff. And even though I can't spot too many differences in the interior, it seems better and fresh.
OT- what is the difference between the Alpina D5 and 550d?
( even though 550d is monstrous)