[speedmiester]

Shooting your own foot, VW. While the entire world is moving ahead, VW seems to be gladly stuck in reverse.
I can see only one advantage of this engine, reduced third party premiums since it is a 1.0L engine.

[tharian]

The only thing in the 1.2 MPI engine that was worth mentioning was its torque.

It was responsive in the low end and had a decent pull till around 90kmph. With the car loaded it would have been a different story.
The other good thing was , even with the revs dropping really low, the engine would not sputter and die. Altough it took few seconds to respond and pick up revs, it never jerked or died.

It would have made sense if VW gave a turbo petrol with the downsize and left the GT with the 1.2.
Now with the 1litre engine and the drop in torque, not sure how that will translate to real world driving.

1000cc 3 cylinder in a Polo doesn't even sound right.

[RaghuVis]

Has VW really shot their own foot?

To know this, we will need to know how many Petrol Polo's are being sold in India. For the last 4 months, they have been consistently selling just 1.5K units. This can be split into 3 engines. 1.2L, 1.2TSI and 1.2TDI. Though we don't have exact figures, I am almost certain the normal 1.2L petrol would have the least contribution. The business is too small to have a huge impact. Even contribution of 1.2 TSI which will be in all probability be downsized to 1.0L TSI will be very less. It would have been wise to provide 1.0L TSI as the only petrol engine in both Ameo and Polo.

All tend to forget that they are already selling a 8-10 year old car with refreshed upholstery and blings. The impact if any is going to be minimal and nothing disastrous to their already dwindling sales. Most of the enthusiasts never had anything good to write about the 1.2L petrol engine in the first place. They rarely recommended it to people. Everyone rooted for the TDI engine only. So there is no love lost there.

The only loss for VW would be the perception and that will be seen in months to come. They somehow have to survive for 3 years before something new to come from their stable. With huge investments announced, they better have some plan!

[silverado]

VW, assuming you are trying to emulate Maruti ( Is it Wagor R or Celerio ) with that 1.0, can you also launch a CNG variant for POLO? ( Since maruti has them for Wagon R/ celerio ).

[el lobo 6061]

Some Facts:

VW 1.2 MPI
0-100 Kmph - 14.1 seconds
Top Speed - 165 Kmph

VW 1.0 MPI
0-100 Kmph - 14.3 seconds
Top Speed - 174 Kmph

1.0 MPI has wide torque band 95 nm from 3000 rpm till 4300 rpm which wasn't the case with earlier 1.2 MPI.

1.2 MPI torque peaked at 3750 rpm of 110 nm.

Those extra wide rpm will aid over drive ability of car.

Judge a car on basis of overall performance. I think 1.0 MPI will be same as 1.2 MPI if not better from performance numbers.

[jpcoolguy]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

To know this, we will need to know how many Petrol Polo's are being sold in India. For the last 4 months, they have been consistently selling just 1.5K units. This can be split into 3 engines. 1.2L, 1.2TSI and 1.2TDI. Though we don't have exact figures, I am almost certain the normal 1.2L petrol would have the least contribution.

Actually, approx. 79% of Polo sales comes from Petrol engines (as per AutoPunditz fuelwise data for last year) - no split up of TSI or MPFI. Sometime back I read somewhere that GT TSI contributes around 20% of sales for Polo. So, it is safe to assume that the outgoing 1.2 L MPFI engine contributes at least 50% of overall Polo sales and that roughly translates to 750-800 engines per month.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by niteshbids

2. While the absolute torque figure is reduced from 110N-m to 95N-m, the torque curve is quite flat. While it had an earlier peak of 3750rpm, now the peak ranges from 3000 to 4300 rpm. This should result in a better mid-range performance and better in gear acceleration resulting in lesser gear changes.

Originally Posted by niteshbids

The gutless engine being talked about here is the one having 60 ps peak power and not the 76ps unit being brought here. The reviewer also talks about peak torque rpm value of 3000 as high, which when compared to TSI is completely true, but almost all the competition here has peak torque northwards of 4000 rpm.

The top speed of 100 mph or 160kmph is not too bad considering the gt tsi having a rated top speed of 190kmph. Even 0-62mph figures are not bad. This is not the GT edition we are talking about. I think we should look at the figures in the right perspective.

15 NM of torque reduction on an already starving engine is no mean feat. The question of peak torque being available from 750 rpms earlier doesn't make sense here because the peak torque in itself is 15% lesser than the previous model.

From an academic perspective, the torque curve of the new engine feels nice. Peak torque from 3000 to 4300 rpms on a NA Petrol engine is unheard of. But, the cubic size is so small that they literally killed all the benefits of that innovation. It's just sad that VW decided to do this. I tried searching for such stupid business decisions that happened before and one thing that comes to my mind is "Nokia's 'bold' decision not to use Android". The rest was history!

Originally Posted by niteshbids

4. The weight has gone down by 14 kgs which along with the increase in power by 1ps would result in an improved power/weight ratio by about 2%. While its not much, at-least it doesn't move in the negative direction.

The PS is not what really matters for daily driving. PS just helps in 0-100 timing which is already pathetic for the 1.2 L. This reduction in cc and hence torque will reduce the drivability as well in addition to the car being boring and unrefined to drive.

[Sankar]

Well done VW! In 2010 you launched POLO as a competitor to the Swift with both having 1.2 liter mills. In 2018 you give POLO the AStar's (I had one) engine

[nickatnite]

All VW had to do was introduce the new model Swift in India and they would have taken the sting out of the Swift. I have bought a new Swift only because i'm not sure of the all new Polo.Brazil has already got the all new Polo and we're running about the bushes with facelifts and cosmetics. Can any VW executive look at me with a straight face and explain how they could launch the latest Polo in a smaller auto market like Brazil while treat us like we are not worthy of their latest products?.

[niteshbids]

Originally Posted by amalji

15 NM of torque reduction on an already starving engine is no mean feat. The question of peak torque being available from 750 rpms earlier doesn't make sense here because the peak torque in itself is 15% lesser than the previous model.

From an academic perspective, the torque curve of the new engine feels nice. Peak torque from 3000 to 4300 rpms on a NA Petrol engine is unheard of. But, the cubic size is so small that they literally killed all the benefits of that innovation. It's just sad that VW decided to do this. I tried searching for such stupid business decisions that happened before and one thing that comes to my mind is "Nokia's 'bold' decision not to use Android". The rest was history!

I agree that the reduction in peak torque is not good. My only point here is that looking at the range of the peak torque (which starts a lot lower and goes on for significant time) there might be better low end torque available. This can be analysed only if we would have access to the torque curves of the 2 engines.

Originally Posted by nickatnite

All VW had to do was introduce the new model Swift in India and they would have taken the sting out of the Swift. I have bought a new Swift only because i'm not sure of the all new Polo.Brazil has already got the all new Polo and we're running about the bushes with facelifts and cosmetics. Can any VW executive look at me with a straight face and explain how they could launch the latest Polo in a smaller auto market like Brazil while treat us like we are not worthy of their latest products?.

Few reasons come to mind that may have resulted in this:

1. Brazil may be a smaller auto market but VW is a dominant player there and thus Brazil is a bigger market for VW than India currently.
2. The new Polo crosses the 4 metre length limit so would fall under a higher tax bracket which would push the cost of the car.
3. Without localisation of parts the costs would again spiral.

When i read about the global launch of the new polo last year, i was hoping to see it here shortly. But as soon as I saw the dimensions of the car, I had a feeling that we wouldn't be seeing it here anytime soon

That said, I also seriously hope that they bring the up! to our shores already. Give the market a product in the lower price band also. Would help them a lot in expanding their footprint in the market

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by nickatnite

Can any VW executive look at me with a straight face and explain how they could launch the latest Polo in a smaller auto market like Brazil while treat us like we are not worthy of their latest products?.

VW's new ( and much delayed) plan has the C/SUV on priority.The hatchback and Sedan is next .

So in all probability the New Polo will not come earlier than 2022.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by niteshbids

I agree that the reduction in peak torque is not good. My only point here is that looking at the range of the peak torque (which starts a lot lower and goes on for significant time) there might be better low end torque available. This can be analysed only if we would have access to the torque curves of the 2 engines.

Correct.
However, access to torque graphs of these engines is limited and I have not been able to source the same for the old 1.2 MPI engine despite long searches in the past (I happen to own one ).

However, theoritically, the 1.0 engine is a 'square' engine, with near identical bore and stroke. That is the reason why peak power is produced at 6200rpm.
Hence, it will be rev-friendly, but wont be torquey.

The Old 1.2 MPI was a long stroke motor.
That resulted in decent bottom end torque, but lackluster high rpm power.

Net, net, I expect the 1.0 MPI to be less drive-able in City conditions, but better in NVH and rev-happiness.

[jetsetgo08]

Did anyone get to drive the new 1.0L MPI ? Or is VW still busy in clearing the old stock ? Apparently, as someone rightly pointed out there is also a CNG version of 1.0L MPI in the VW Up((EcoFuel BMT)) being sold in Europe. We might be in for a surprise if the CNG'ed version of Polo is launched here.

[84.monsoon]

European auto companies (except the luxury brands) seem to completely lack agility, competitiveness or risk-taking in India. They have not woken up to the fact that this will be one of the largest Auto markets in the world, both by volume AND value, very soon.

Good examples are VW & Skoda - They are talking of almost a decade to get a new platform localized to India. The MQB platform already made its appearance in India in 2013 with the current generation Skoda Octavia. The writing was on the wall - that they need to localize this platform to India for their future growth and competitiveness, was clear. They knew PQ25/PQ35 would get phased out soon. Yet, no one did anything about it and continued to kick the can down the road. Local management was kept inept and had zero influence in product life cycle. Some old boffins in Wolfsburg sat around a table and talked about risks and costs of India, but not the promise and potential. India was just not a priority.

If this had been Suzuki or M&M or even Ford, they would have indigenised the platform in 2-3 years at the outside. By now, we could have had every car - from the new Fabia, the classy European version of the Rapid, Octavia, Superb, new Passat, Tiguan, Kodiaq and Koraq - all being made completely in India with high localization and very low import content. The supplier ecosystem would have been developed from India to support the MQB platform globally. This would have resulted in strong volumes across the range on the new platform for VAG group. The 2.0 TDI and 1.2/1.4 TSI engines, DQ200 and DQ250 gearboxes woudl all be made in India. The sheer scale efficiencies and indigenization could have made up for the increased costs of the MQB platform. Audi would ahve been able to benefit trmendously from the localization and would have undercut MB and BMW by a good margin and become the top selling luxury car brand in India.

Instead of doing this, today we have people at VW still talking, finally deciding now (after 5 Years!) to being MQB-A0 platform to India and are projecting this will happen finally by 2022! Ten years wasted and by then, the next VW global platform will be announced in Germany and India will be another 10 years behind!

Same is the story with Fiat, Renault etc. When will these folks learn to take India seriously and give autonomy and accountability and support to local management and not have old, risk averse Europeans making ultra-conservative decisions about India?

[asitkde]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

European auto companies (except the luxury brands) seem to completely lack agility, competitiveness or risk-taking in India. They have not woken up to the fact that this will be one of the largest Auto markets in the world, both by volume AND value, very soon.

--------

.... today we have people at VW still talking, finally deciding now (after 5 Years!) to being MQB-A0 platform to India and are projecting this will happen finally by 2022! Ten years wasted and by then, the next VW global platform will be announced in Germany and India will be another 10 years behind!

Same is the story with Fiat, Renault etc. When will these folks learn to take India seriously and give autonomy and accountability and support to local management and not have old, risk averse Europeans making ultra-conservative decisions about India?

You have summed up the situation absolutely correctly, in my view. Your primary diagnosis has been the poor perception of the Indian market in the eyes of these manufacturers, and I think you are right. Being an owner of VW Polo GT, I have to say, we do not need to entertain anybody if the products are not good enough. Indian market is maturing fast on quality and it will grow regardless of the whims of some of these manufacturers. It's already in the top five markets of the world, soon to be moving further ahead. It will not be our loss. I hope VAG people both in India and Germany are reading a few of these posts, and find out how, on the other hand, the perception of the customers in India are shaping up about their products and plans. Market has its own dynamics, and they are going past the point of no return, I think.