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Old 30th May 2018, 12:26   #1
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Default Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!

Hello everyone, this is my first thread on Team-BHP and I would like to thank the team for letting me voice my concern on this forum.

A brief background – after deliberating for months and courtesy of GST, I bought a Ford Endeavour 3.2 Titanium in July 2017. To share my ownership experience and product overview, I shot a couple of videos as well and put them up on YouTube.

Interestingly, a gentleman who had reviewed the Everest posted an eye opening comment after seeing one of the videos posted by me which had underbody shots of my Endeavour.

Quote:
You're Everest has less underbody support. Look at the video I posted at 4:15, you will see a K-truss to add extra stiffnes to chassis.
Screenshot from video showing the K-truss on Australian Everest marked in Red
Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!-everest.jpg

Source Video:


Screenshot from my video showing the missing K-truss
Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!-endeavour_my17.jpg

Source Video:


I then browsed the Owners Manual downloaded from Ford India website after entering my Endeavour’s VIN and on the page which shows the entire underbody view, I was shocked to find that the picture in the Owners Manual shows the K-truss.

Picture from the Owners Manual with K-Truss marked in Red
Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!-owner_manual.jpg


The print version of the Owners Manual supplied with the Endeavour also shows the presence of the missing K-Truss. This clearly shows that there is no explanation or mention of this glaring discrepancy in the Indian version of the Everest. It is my belief that with this change in structure, the ANCAP ratings of Everest cannot represent the Endeavour in true sense.

This is the first time I have observed a structural deviation in the Indianised version of an International vehicle. This in my opinion shows manufacturing double standards for premium vehicles as well that are sold in India and are built abroad.

Safety is one of the pillars that Ford India promotes as a key differentiating aspect of their products for the Indian market. Cutting costs on the chassis itself by removing these members and thereby affecting the overall strength and rigidity of the vehicle leading to a compromise in the safety is disappointing.

What do the other Team-BHPians and Endeavour owners think about it?
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Old 30th May 2018, 13:14   #2
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Default re: Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!

Before we come to conclusions, have you tried to seek any explanation from Ford India? Not expected this from Ford though!
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Old 30th May 2018, 13:23   #3
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Default re: Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.G. View Post
What do the other Team-BHPians and Endeavour owners think about it?
Welcome onboard...!!!

For starters, I think it is a clear case of cost-cutting by Ford by supplying a different chassis for the Indian (only?) edition of the Everest. This will definitely affect chassis performance, not only in crash tests but also under offroad conditions.

Also, it comes across as pretty stupid for the owner's manual to show a different chassis layout than what is sold without any disclaimers whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay380 View Post
Before we come to conclusions, have you tried to seek any explanation from Ford India?
Makes sense, they are indeed answerable to this lapse/deviation.

Last edited by n.devdath : 30th May 2018 at 13:25.
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Old 30th May 2018, 13:35   #4
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Default Re: Chassis differences between Ford Everest and Endeavour

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.G. View Post
This is the first time I have observed a structural deviation in the Indianised version of an International vehicle. This in my opinion shows manufacturing double standards for premium vehicles as well that are sold in India and are built abroad.
I wouldn't jump the gun and call it a gross compromise. Take a look a this post by Shankar (quoting for a link to it).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
In INDIA that metal cross beam is present in all vehicles, but not all manufacturer provides the energy absorbing deformable plastic/foam pieces which goes behind the bumper cover and on the metal beam. Some manufactures do provide that on some models India.
While you have definitely come across some difference, we should try to get in touch with Ford for answers. There could be many reasons like additional weight of the car, different equipment, difference in transmission systems or even changes in exhaust system. Not that I'm justifying the missing K-member, but lets hear what other members have to say.

Last edited by blackwasp : 30th May 2018 at 13:38.
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Old 30th May 2018, 13:46   #5
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Default Re: Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!

In a 25Lakh + vehicle, I doubt there is any significant cost cutting to be achieved by not providing these 2 metal beams unless they are made of some exotic material like Titanium or "Unobtanium" !! I guess the owner should raise to Ford first and let us know.

But without a doubt, a great observation by A.G. and a goof up by Ford to not update the owner's manual
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Old 30th May 2018, 13:47   #6
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Default Re: Chassis differences between Ford Everest and Endeavour

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.G. View Post
What do the other Team-BHPians and Endeavour owners think about it?
What a first post! Welcome aboard.

Note that this is not the first time Ford made structural changes to a car for markets requiring higher safety standards.

1. Ecosport received over 300 changes to make it eligible for exports to markets like the UK.

https://www.motorbeam.com/ford-modif...ropean-market/

2. European Ka+ received extensive as compared to the Indian Figo with changes like a front anti-roll bar, rear torsion beam and tyres, plus even a re-engineered front sub-frame!

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intern...unched-uk.html

That said - I did not expect changes in the premium Endeavour! Thats atrocious. Hope Ford India has some good explanation on this - other than cost cutting.

PS - To Ford's credit though - they still fared better than most other mainstream Indian market manufacturers when it came to crash tests.
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Old 30th May 2018, 13:47   #7
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Default Re: Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!

On a 30 lakh SUV! This is just not done. As an Endeavour fan, I am extremely disappointed . Wasn't there also a big difference between the Indian EcoSport & export versions?

Still, while not pardonable, I understand cost-cutting on an EcoSport which has a starting price of ~8 lakhs. But on a premium SUV which has prices overlapping with Mercedes' & BMWs? Disgusting. Shameful. Ford must learn where to save their pennies and where to spend them. It doesn't know a thing about selling 30-lakh rupee cars in India if it has stripped them out of such parts which owners will never realise. How much did you save, Ford? 5,000 bucks?

Thanks for sharing this thread, A.G. (and welcome aboard!!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay380 View Post
Before we come to conclusions, have you tried to seek any explanation from Ford India? Not expected this from Ford though!
Have just dropped an email to Ford. I would also like to know WHY the owner's manual shows the missing part.

Last edited by GTO : 30th May 2018 at 13:50.
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:36   #8
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Default Re: Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!

Am not sure if that is indeed cost cutting. Australian Everest is rated to tow upto 3 Tonnes of trailer, that capability is not given in the Endeavour, either because it is not allowed by RTO or Ford decided to not provide that capability because of no demand.

Before jumping to conclusions, we must hear from Ford if they too explain the reason for omission, on the same lines as what I said above. To tow a 3T load and also at the same time be 5 star rated in ANCAP, the chassis needs to be much more stiffer and hence the braced cross bar.

Last edited by GTO : 30th May 2018 at 17:41. Reason: Please use CAPS wherever suitable. Thanks!
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:41   #9
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Default Re: Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Have just dropped an email to Ford. I would also like to know WHY the owner's manual shows the missing part.
Every automobile company has this team who makes ownership and workshop manuals. They are given the last released part number(vehicle integration number in this case) which they open in CAD viewers and take snapshots from required angle. Its a donkey job. Most probably someone here messed up BIG time in copying from wrong assembly number and then approving the final release. Imagine this happening in developed countries
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:01   #10
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Default Re: Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!

This is not the first time they are doing something like this. See this post from samaspire. Ford advertised anti roll bar in their website and brochure but his car did not have the same.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post4003684
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:15   #11
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Default Re: Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!

What happens if you take the Endy with the manual to the Ford workshop and claim that the part is missing? Of course during PDI this would make more sense and then some of us will have to bring over some popcorn.

The stupid part is just reproducing the international manual here without checking. I dont know what other manufacturers do, but having a new diagram for localised versions should not be so expensive
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:24   #12
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Default Re: Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!

Could it be that this K member is required for regions/countries where towing is prevalent?
I remember reading that even the previous gen fortuner had a chassis member missing compared to the Australian version.
Cheers,
Deepak
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:27   #13
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Default Re: Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!

Wow! What an opening post.

I am more than a fan of the Endeavour - I'm frankly obsessed with it (thought clearly not enough to have seen your videos before) - and I do not feel like giving Ford any benefit of any doubt.

Towing or not, it's a straight up structural component that would aid off-road performance too - at least some will use this vehicle as intended, even in India. And please, Endeavour and weight-saving in the same sentence?

If not digestible as tangible to more members more knowledgeable of costs and margins on a 40L car for the manufacturer, I would say:
Of course it is cost-cutting - remember the famous story about airline salads and the removal of one olive each saving an ungodly sum overall? Well, I think every MBA trying to prove his million dollar education actually meant something or CEO trying to prove he's god-like too has tried some such nonsense. I remember some Scottish mogul going on about how he banned purchase of paperclips in his company as a seminal decision.
In my book its either megalomania and/or wanting to save even that 5k per vehicle.
I'm sure Ford will be able to come up with an innocuous reason given how quickly other members here were able to (Ford after all has the teensiest, tiniest bit at stake here). Can't say I'm waiting for you'll to post their replies with bated breath.

On the other hand, I would like to hear from you'll about how it impacts structural integrity and/or things like wheel articulation, especially with heavy usage (ladder frame commensurate abuse) over time.

And here I was thinking that this was one vehicle where no corners were cut, even for us fourth-world citizens.

Bah!
Still completely head-over-heels for the damn thing though.


On the other hand - saw your videos too A.G., in addition to the post. Thanks for posting them - I particularly loved the one embedded above. I used headphones for it especially. That big diesel's sound makes me go weak at the knees everytime I hear it.
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:57   #14
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Default Re: Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!

I hope everyone is aware that this gen of the Ranger & Endeavour/Everest was developed in Australia.

This K - Truss is understandably added/designed to tackle the Australian outback as clearly majority people out there do use the vehicle OFF ROAD.

Also i believe we do get the Thai spec variant & not Australian spec, now it will be interesting to see if the Thai Endeavours/Everest's have this K-Truss enhancement in their chassis. If not then we are not getting too, simple !

If the Thai-spec has & we do not then it is truly a shame.

Last edited by karan561 : 30th May 2018 at 16:09.
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Old 30th May 2018, 16:06   #15
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Default Re: Pics: Chassis of Indian Ford Endeavour has less support than the international version!

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay380 View Post
Imagine this happening in developed countries
Just because we consider a certain country developed, doesn’t mean nobody makes stupid mistakes anymore. We have Arianne space rockets crashing because one engineer was using metric and the other engineer non metric units in the design process!

A Ron White said: You can’t cure stupid!

On this particular topic, well spotted and it is at least remarkable. I would be interested to hear what Ford has to say. It would be interesting to see if this Ford is sold in India with different specification (e.g. towing etc as suggested) compared to other markets.

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