Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


View Poll Results: Your favourite?
Torque-converter 306 35.96%
Dual-clutch (DSG) 401 47.12%
CVT 114 13.40%
AMT 30 3.53%
Voters: 851. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30th November 2019, 20:55   #136
Senior - BHPian
 
SilentEngine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: KA19,KA04
Posts: 1,130
Thanked: 481 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trek View Post
Attachment 1939561



Warning for those driving automatic geared cars for long distances.

The TOI article headline is quite misleading and comes across as attention grabbing to put the blame squarely on automatic cars.

It's always advisable to take regular breaks while driving. Apparently he drove nonstop for 8-hours. If the only cause is lack of movement in left leg, then what about rest of the passengers in the car who don't need to move either legs?

Here's the same news from another paper:
https://indianexpress.com/article/li...tment-6131684/

https://indianexpress.com/article/ci...gency-6131039/
SilentEngine is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 1st December 2019, 11:22   #137
Senior - BHPian
 
deehunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,716
Thanked: 1,917 Times
Default Re: Which type of Automatic Transmission do you prefer?

The CVT suits my driving style, I now own an used Honda City CVT. I just drive it like an electric car.
deehunk is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 1st December 2019, 12:25   #138
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pune
Posts: 428
Thanked: 737 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
I just drive it like an electric car.
What does this mean?
pseudo_coder is offline  
Old 1st December 2019, 13:43   #139
Senior - BHPian
 
deehunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,716
Thanked: 1,917 Times
Default Re: Which type of Automatic Transmission do you prefer?

I meant to say, it is like a simple electric motor drive whose speed can be increased or decreased. There is neither any rubber band effect nor any gear changing sound.
deehunk is offline  
Old 1st December 2019, 14:03   #140
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Chennai
Posts: 55
Thanked: 116 Times
Default Re: Which type of Automatic Transmission do you prefer?

CVT is the best compromise with respect to drivability, FE and reliability. The jerks of AMT is a pain to live with. TC provide relatively better experience but the hit in FE might not be to everyone's liking. DCT/DSG still needs to be proven as reliable tech, Ford's/VW's weren't exactly success stories and the Koreans have their task cut out to prove them wrong. But if anything I would like to give the Koreans a chance as their electric wizardry helped in making the AMT a very good experience in the Santro. Still, driving a DSG paired with TSI/TDI is truly an experience that can't be put in words.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 1st December 2019 at 14:08. Reason: Corrected typos and punctuation. Please proof-read posts before submitting.
TDCi'd is offline  
Old 1st December 2019, 14:15   #141
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Sankar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yes
Posts: 5,375
Thanked: 6,857 Times
Default Re: Which type of Automatic Transmission do you prefer?

First choice in a Diesel/ powerful petrol is always torque converter. Only because CVT transmissions are not yet successful on high torque applications in automobiles.

DCT/DSG is a gimmick, cannot trust them at all. It may take you someplace but there is no guarantee that you will make the trip back home under own power or on a flatbed truck.
Sankar is offline  
Old 1st December 2019, 14:24   #142
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pune
Posts: 428
Thanked: 737 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDCi'd View Post
driving a DSG paired with TSI/TDI is truly an experience that can't be put in words.
Really? If that was the case, almost everyone considering a Vento/Rapid DSG would end up buying it after a test drive. I tested them, along with Honda city CVT (not back to back though). I didn't find much difference. Yes, I am not an enthusiast.
pseudo_coder is offline  
Old 1st December 2019, 14:26   #143
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,308
Thanked: 2,319 Times
Default Re: Which type of Automatic Transmission do you prefer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
I meant to say, it is like a simple electric motor drive whose speed can be increased or decreased. There is neither any rubber band effect nor any gear changing sound.
But the CVT does have a pronounced rubber and effect. Change in the vehicle speed is not always in sync with the acceleration input and the corresponding raise in the engine revs. If you press the accelerator hard, even while the engine revs are going up, first the CVT tries to slide to the correct torque ratio which results in the vehicle picking up the momentum a second later. In an electric car the vehicle would accelerate in a linear fashion.
But if you drive the CVT car with gentle acceleration inputs, it behaves somewhat linear way (but the progress will be )
Guna is offline  
Old 1st December 2019, 14:45   #144
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pune
Posts: 428
Thanked: 737 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
But the CVT does have a pronounced rubber and effect.
I have driven many CVT cars. I found this effect prominently in Duster, noticeable in Jazz, very low in Baleo and almost absent in Amaze diesel and City.
pseudo_coder is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 1st December 2019, 14:57   #145
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,308
Thanked: 2,319 Times
Default Re: Which type of Automatic Transmission do you prefer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudo_coder View Post
I have driven many CVT cars. I found this effect prominently in Duster, noticeable in Jazz, very low in Baleo and almost absent in Amaze diesel and City.
Essentially the Amaze diesel and City have more powerful and torquey engines. They don't need to kick down every time you try to accelerate but rather stay at the same torque point on the CVT (or very little 'shifting'), which would mostly eliminate the rubber band effect.
Guna is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 1st December 2019, 14:57   #146
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Chennai
Posts: 55
Thanked: 116 Times
Default Re: Which type of Automatic Transmission do you prefer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudo_coder View Post
Really? If that was the case, almost everyone considering a Vento/Rapid DSG would end up buying it after a test drive. I tested them, along with Honda city CVT (not back to back though). I didn't find much difference. Yes, I am not an enthusiast.
Well it's the feeling of burying your foot on the accelerator and before you know it you're at S7 doing 100KPH. The entire upshifting process is so seamless and smooth that coming from driving AMT's I found it so different(I'm no enthusiast either) . I I did feel some noticeable lag until 1750-2000 RPM's in TDI's. Coming back to the point as magical as it was to me, the driving experience alone didn't influence my buying behavior when I was considering the C1 sedan segment for amaze diesel cvt vs Ameo DSG . The high cost of ownership and my lack of confidence on DSG moved me away from it. As far as the amaze goes, the driving experience was overall good albeit a bit neutral but the interior was totally not what I was expecting out of a million rupee car, especially when the similarly priced jazz feels so much more upmarket. Ended up shopping in a different segment altogether.

Last edited by TDCi'd : 1st December 2019 at 15:00.
TDCi'd is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 1st December 2019, 15:00   #147
BHPian
 
Sukanta73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: CRJ (WB) / UAE
Posts: 66
Thanked: 63 Times
Default Re: Which type of Automatic Transmission do you prefer?

Is there any list available for car models (Budget up to 12 lacs) based on type of transmission?
Sukanta73 is offline  
Old 1st December 2019, 15:48   #148
Senior - BHPian
 
deehunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,716
Thanked: 1,917 Times
Default Re: Which type of Automatic Transmission do you prefer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Essentially the Amaze diesel and City have more powerful and torquey engines. They don't need to kick down every time you try to accelerate but rather stay at the same torque point on the CVT (or very little 'shifting'), which would mostly eliminate the rubber band effect.
This is what I practised on Duster AMT previously, but now absolutely comfortable with a CVT car. It suits my sedate driving perfectly. When I did a TD of Amaze Diesel CVT recently, I used the same style of driving. If you learn this skill, rubber band effect is hardly noticed. Among the AMT's, I find that Mahindra XUV 300 has a linear acceleration.

Last edited by deehunk : 1st December 2019 at 15:49.
deehunk is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 2nd December 2019, 09:01   #149
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,720
Thanked: 7,079 Times
Default

My Dad's Glanza has a CVT AT.
It is good for sedate driving and city commuting. But it is not at all a quick responder to the accelerator pedal input when it comes to gear changes and conversion of power to the wheels.

My newly purchased pre owned Mini Cooper S 2012 model has a Prince engine and an AT by Getrag - now I have been searching for more info on this Getrag AT - I dont know whether it is a Torque Converter or any other.
All I can tell you is that it pulls like the blazes and you can feel the gearshifts nicely under acceleration and deceleration. And you can fiddle with the Paddle Shifters. The AT is pure joy - just like the BMW promise and in my observation, is even smoother and more responsive than the VW DSG.
shankar.balan is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 4th January 2020, 18:13   #150
BHPian
 
manjunathkl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 125
Thanked: 443 Times
Default Re: Which type of Automatic Transmission do you prefer?

My take on all the Transmissions:

MT (Manual Transmission):

It is the simplest transmission, with highest reliability with no major maintenance (only oil change). Generally, the gear box will last the life of the car or more. Most widely used transmission across the world (except USA).

Positives:
Mother of all transmissions
Reliable as a rock
Gives complete control to the driver (Can drive it butter smooth or like a maniac)
Highest fuel efficiency (If you change gears at the right time)
Lightest Transmission Hardware

Negatives:
MANUAL CLUTCH (If only left foot was replace-able like a spare part at service centers along with clutch plates)
One part of your brain must keep thinking on which gear to be in
Can stall and switch off the engine if not driven in the right gear
If there is no Hill hold in your car, you have to juggle clutch, gear, hand brake and accelerator all at once.


CVT/X-tronic (Continuously Variable Transmission):

Theoretically the best transmission tech without any compromise. But in real life situations, it is less than ideal. It is THE transmission of all the scooters today and works like a gem.

Positives:

Smoothest of the transmissions
Infinite gear ratios
Best mix of performance, fuel economy (But only in theory. i.e. not true in stop and go traffic situations)
Higher fuel efficiency (compared to other Auto tech, if driven in ideal conditions)
Lighter Transmission Hardware (compared to other Auto tech)
Parking Slot
Impossible to stall

Negatives:
RBE (Rubber Band Effect) - No performance car can have CVT.
Some brands CVTs are prone to have issues
Less suitable for challenging situations like extreme uphill (Slippages can occur)
Suitable for lighter, less torquey cars (Hence mostly available only in Petrol cars)
Most CVTs lack Engine braking
Some CVTs lack Creep function


AMT/AGS/Easy-R (Automated Manual Transmission):


Manual Transmission with an automated shifter. It is like "Chotu 2nd gear lagao". Every shift has to go through engagement of the clutch, change of gear, and release of the clutch. Just like a manual transmission, but robotically operated by a machine.

Positives:

Cheapest Auto tech to buy and repair/maintain
Better fuel economy (Compared to other Auto tech, under all conditions)
Manual Mode available (Just like a MT, but without clutch operation. In some places, it is called Semi-Automatic Transmission)
Performance is as good as MT
Lighter Hardware compared to other Auto tech

Negatives:
Slowest Shifting
Jerkiest of the transmissions (infamous head-nod during shifting)
Less suitable for an upmarket car (lacks a premium feel)
No Parking Slot (Hand brake is the parking slot)
Need special attention and skill if you are rolling down a slope/climbing an incline from stand still
Some AMTs lack Creep Function


TC/Automatic Transmission (Torque Converter):

Slightly more complicated mechanism but have been perfected over the decades. Most preferred of the Auto boxes worldwide. Used in many of the premium brand cars even today.

Positives:

Oldest and most mature Auto tech
Most reliable of the Auto tech
Higher the gears, better the feel and efficiency - (due to wide spread of torque/top end bands)
Smooth in operation (due to the liquid coupling)
Manual Mode (Available in most modern TC Auto boxes, Not very direct, but still better than complete lack of it)
Parking Slot
Impossible to stall
Creep Function

Negatives:
Lesser Fuel efficiency (Though it is improved a lot, transmission losses not completely avoidable)
Heavy Gearbox Hardware
Expensive to repair


DCT/DSG (Dual Clutch Automatic Transmission):

Most desired Auto tech by enthusiasts because of its performance and shifting speeds. It is like an AMT with 2 clutches one each for odd and even gears. AMT's 3 stage operation for shifting is cut down to 2 in DCT - change the gear and release the clutch. It is practically faster than even manual transmission. Used in high-end performance cars.

Positives:
Lightning Shift Speeds
Darling of the enthusiasts, race drivers
Very Direct with no transmission losses (due to the hard coupling)
Higher Fuel efficiency (compared to TC Auto, but only by a small margin)
Higher the gears, better the feel and efficiency - (due to wide spread of torque/top end bands)
Manual Mode
Parking Slot
Impossible to stall
Creep function

Negatives:
Most unreliable of the Auto tech (Highest number of moving parts controlled by electronics)
Even regular maintenance is expensive
Very expensive to repair (Most of these boxes are imported, hence not repairable in India)
Very slightly jerky compared to TC (but no where nearly as jerky as AMT)
Heavier than MTs

Now, coming to which Auto tech to chose:

You must chose the auto box based on your usage. Not due to any other factor.
  1. If it is driven primarily in city conditions with back-to-back traffic, objective is only to commute, AMT is better. It will not burn a hole in the pocket and if anything breaks down you can fix it cheaper.
  2. If driven primarily on highways (but with light foot, not trying to race other cars), or in cities with less traffic (smooth sailing with occasional slow traffic), CVT is better (but if you want a big torquey diesel car- CVTs are not available)
  3. If performance is your thing, the race driver in you is alive, you demand responsiveness and you are done with manual transmission, close your eyes and go with DCT (You can save money on other things, smile on your face will be priceless)
  4. If you want a mix of all the above - sometimes city, sometimes highway, sometimes traffic, sometimes relaxed driving, sometimes spirited driving, GO FOR TC Auto transmission. It is the best blend, most balanced, it is an all rounder. It is the most reliable auto tech too.
Hope it answers questions on Auto tech selection. There might be some exceptions or outliers, but most commonly these are similar characteristics of each of the auto tech. It will either help you or bother you depending on the situation. So, choose the best tech based on YOUR usage of the car.

Last edited by manjunathkl : 4th January 2020 at 18:40. Reason: Corrected typo
manjunathkl is offline   (11) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks