[FIAT3031]

Excellent research ... detailed to the core

Anyhow one thing that I did observe was... OEMs are shunning DCT/DSG and moving to conventional AT ? (e.g: Ford Ecosport offered DCT but now comes with AT)
Any specific reason ?

VAG has faced DSG failures however I doubt that was the case with Ford.
Also I haven't heard any OEMs getting DCT into their models.

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by FIAT3031

Excellent research ... detailed to the core

Anyhow one thing that I did observe was... OEMs are shunning DCT/DSG and moving to conventional AT ? (e.g: Ford Ecosport offered DCT but now comes with AT)
Any specific reason ?

VAG has faced DSG failures however I doubt that was the case with Ford.
Also I haven't heard any OEMs getting DCT into their models.

Ford moved away (judiciously so IMO) from DCT because failures were starting to crop up here and there.

Details on how the Ford DCT box operates: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...-overview.html (Ford PowerShift Dual-Clutch Transmission (DCT) - A Technical Overview)

Failure in Ecosport: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...26-162-km.html (Ford EcoSport 1.5L AT: Transmission Control Module replaced under warranty at 26,162 km)

Consolidated Ford DCT box issues thread: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...rbox-woes.html (Ford Fiesta DCT Automatic: Gearbox woes)

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by FIAT3031

Excellent research ... detailed to the core

Anyhow one thing that I did observe was... OEMs are shunning DCT/DSG and moving to conventional AT ? (e.g: Ford Ecosport offered DCT but now comes with AT)
Any specific reason ?

VAG has faced DSG failures however I doubt that was the case with Ford.
Also I haven't heard any OEMs getting DCT into their models.

The Ford DCT was/is as notorious as the VAG DSG DQ200. The main difference, was more than actual failures, the way the DCT behaved caused a bunch of issues. If you just search Ford DCT, the following is what you will see in the first page.

Due to all these issues and consumer lawsuits, Ford withdrew the DCT from most markets at least 2-3 years back. My theory (Disclaimer: I have no facts to back this up ) is that Ford had quite a bit of inventory of DCTs or its components that they got stuck with. So they started selling it in India. Now they have kind of cleared all of it, so reverted back to the traditional TC gearboxes as it has done worldwide- First with the Ecosport, then Aspire and then the Figo.

We have a Ecosport DCT in the immediate family. (Had even written a review). It is nowhere close to the VW DSG and frankly not as predictable as a TC AT also. Gets the job done. Thats about it.

[AdityaDeane]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

Attachment 1857217

Having test driven a Datsun Redi-GO a few months back, I can assure you that except for Renault Kwid all other AMTs in India have a Manual Trip-Tronic Mode. Would request you to make the change regarding Datsun Redi-GO in your table to help others.

[Abbas]

Covered the topic in great detail. In the Gearbox Column, What does TC stand for?

[Simhi]

Originally Posted by Abbas

What does TC stand for?

Torque Converter (TC)

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by AdityaDeane

Having test driven a Datsun Redi-GO a few months back, I can assure you that except for Renault Kwid all other AMTs in India have a Manual Trip-Tronic Mode. Would request you to make the change regarding Datsun Redi-GO in your table to help others.

Thanks for pointing this out. Will correct it and get it updated.

[noopster]

Wow what a thread Rajeev! Am hooked and will certainly be back to read and contribute some more.

I was an early convert to slushboxes and, 8 years down, with an incredible 115,000 km covered in my petrol VW Vento, have no regrets whatsoever (the ribbing from my enthusiast friends I direct towards my grateful left knee!)

I have no doubt whatsoever that my next car will also be an AT. And this plethora of choices now available is heartening.

The term I have begun to detest however is "sticker shock". Why Hyundai feels someone shelling out 18L for an AT Creta will not pay an additional lakh for peace of mind (6 airbags over 2) is something I cannot for the life of me fathom!

With premium electrics just around the corner, that will probably be the next buy for me.

[Geo_Ipe]

Herculean effort there, Rajeev Raj! Very commendable!!

We just got our first Automatic in the family in 2017 - Creta Diesel Auto, which is being used by my parents. First hand experience with the TC Auto box has changed my opinion on Automatics - they're immensely comfortable to drive. Also, with a 6 speed unit (with manual mode), you're never let wanting more power. More than 9/10 times, the box downshifts perfectly to give me the right amount of grunt during overtaking situations.

The sad part of this Automatic onslaught is the imminent death of the Manual Gearbox! The future is Electric - no questions asked. So if anyone wants to enjoy driving a free revving manual car, the time is NOW!! Sadly, we will be the last generation of petrol-heads who will get to experience the manual box! Enjoy it as much as it lasts folks!!

[thehighwayman]

Excellent thread and very nicely compiled.

In country like ours where there is scant regard for traffic laws, Automatics should be a no-brainer considering the amount of times one needs to start-stop-go during a commute. Also,one wonders whether Nissan may have missed a trick by offering a manual only variant of Kicks. A lot of customers looking for a car in that price segment will opt for an Automatic.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by noopster

I was an early convert to slushboxes and, 8 years down, with an incredible 115,000 km covered in my petrol VW Vento, have no regrets whatsoever (the ribbing from my enthusiast friends I direct towards my grateful left knee!)

I have no doubt whatsoever that my next car will also be an AT. And this plethora of choices now available is heartening.

Thanks noopster. Yes, follow all updates on your Vento thread. Must say 8 years back, buying an AT and that too a Vento was a brave decision. Glad to see that it has been a decision you have not had to regret. Even I was a reasonably early convert to AT's with my Vento TSI 5.5 years back. Most people are surprised at this.

Originally Posted by thehighwayman

. Also,one wonders whether Nissan may have missed a trick by offering a manual only variant of Kicks. A lot of customers looking for a car in that price segment will opt for an Automatic.

Thank you. Had not been following the Kicks much and I was also very surprised to see that it did not come in at AT option. At the price range it is selling at, definitely needs a competent AT. Assume it will come sooner than later.

[surjaonwheelz]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

So which AT to buy?

From the data so far, it is clear that the number of options are huge, most fall within the mass market range <15L OTR. You get a number of transmission technologies. Safety features thankfully are no longer the deciding factors and with the huge number of AMT's Fuel Efficiency and premium over the MT variants are also no longer show stoppers.

First of all thanks to Rajeevraj for this great compilation.

Adding my bit. I've listed down all the available cars sub 4m with an AT box with Segment, AT Type, Fuel and Bodystyle attributes across A to C2 segments. Remarks are personal!

Check out all the options:


Let's see only the AMT options:


Let's see the full Automatics:


Now let's check out the oil burners, mileage of a diesel engine + convenience of an automatic:


I'm uploading the Worksheet here, you can play with the filters.
March2019Sub4mATcars.xlsx

PS. Correct me if I've compiled any incorrect information.

Hope this helps the left knee!
--surjaonwheelz

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by BeantownThinker

Would it be possible to upload the spreadsheet of the entire list? It is a bit cumbersome reading the info through images.

Originally Posted by ghodlur

Would request to attach the available options in the xcel format (post#3) so that we could sort and play to ones requirement.

Have uploaded the data as a Google Spreadsheet at the following link. It is set to a 'comment only mode' But sorting/filtering/searching are possible.

Originally Posted by surjaonwheelz

First of all thanks to Rajeevraj for this great compilation.

Adding my bit. I've listed down all the available cars sub 4m with an AT box with Segment, AT Type, Fuel and Bodystyle attributes across A to C2 segments. Remarks are personal!
--surjaonwheelz

Thanks surjaonwheelz. That is a useful analysis. I have put my data into the Google Spreadsheet mentioned above. In case you want add your info into the sheet, please let me know, will add in a separate tab for reference.

[surjaonwheelz]

Originally Posted by shashanka

When there is an AMT on offer (on a RWD only) within my budget I will certainly go for it.

Why don't you consider the TUV3OO AMT? [RWD+AMT] With the facelift around the corner you should start saving up!

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

Thanks surjaonwheelz. That is a useful analysis. I have put my data into the Google Spreadsheet mentioned above. In case you want add your info into the sheet, please let me know, will add in a separate tab for reference.

Sure, why not! Please add it.

--surjaonwheelz

[GKMahajan]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

The Conclusion

So, that was probably an overdose of numbers and statistics. if you have just skipped to the end, let me just summarize some key points and what we can expect in the future.

..

..

A parting thought. One area where the AT has not made in-roads is the taxi market, especially intra-city even in big metros. It is quite rare to see an AT in the cab space. Even in the newer cars. Interestingly Suzuki and Toyota now have a partnership in place to share models(Baleno, Brezza, Corolla). They are in a good position to expand their further and position something that meets the needs of the taxi market. Maybe an Etios version with one of Marutis AMTs. With the cab business booming and traffic congestion rapidly increasing, a good reliable AT solution for cabs, I believe will be a game changer in the taxi market.

If you have reached this far, thank you for reading. Comments and Suggestions welcome.

Dear Rajeevraj,

Let me start by saying that your skills are just fantastic! I HAD to read it from start to finish in one go.

This is a very interesting topic to me. I replaced my old Honda City with a Jazz V CVT in 2015. Ok - the City was from 2006 (so 9 years old) and had done 1,30,000 km. However, the experience was so good that I replaced our WagonR (a relatively new car with very little km done) with a Scorpio S10 AT in 2016. I had to draw a lot of flak for that!

Anyway, referring to your point above about taxis and automatics, by chance I had traveled inside Pune by a taxi in peak traffic. The driver told me that this was going to be his last ride of the day. He was tired. I asked him if he had considered automatics. He said that he actually went and checked with the Maruti dealer for a Dzire AT. According to him, it is not available as taxi!!

I do not have any proof or evidence of this claim. I tried searching on the net. I could not find anything conclusive - either way. Maybe you could check it out? I find that taxi operators and drivers are never really stupid. They might make some mistakes, but they always chose intelligently for the objectives of their business. I am sure there are some high end automatics used as taxis - mainly by big hotels and for major clients of all taxi operators. However, I am curious - is Maruti not allowing automatics to go to taxis or is the RTO putting hurdles? Or, is the specific dealer playing games? Your inputs would be useful.

Regards,

Girish Mahajan