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Old 10th September 2019, 08:52   #61
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Originally Posted by Nithesh_M View Post
Its high time Tata ditch that ugly badge and design something modern. That badge gives me PTSD because it reminds me of their horrible products from 2 decades ago. They finally managed to build something that isn't sharing body lines with the Indica but that logo has to go. Its mostly associated with Tata's failures and not success.



Rebranding should be high on Tatas priorities if they want customers to willingly spend 20 lakh plus on a Tata badge

Totally agree. Even Maruti had to finally shed their cheap car manufacturer image and rebrand as the nexa. Tata needs to do that to appeal to the next generation. The old logo and the brand, even though it maybe close to 100 years old, doesn't evoke the same feeling in younger car buyers as it did among the older generation.
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Old 10th September 2019, 11:27   #62
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A 60% buyback scheme similar to MG will shed the market of resale fears , and make more fence-sitters consider the Harrier. Along with BS6 170 bhp engine and automatic of course. Regarding the sunroof , if I was in Tata I'd introduce a full panoramic sunroof on a new XZ++ model and price it beyond reach (near Tucson) - no one would buy it , but at least the naysayers would shut their mouths
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Old 10th September 2019, 11:51   #63
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Default Re: Harrier: 5 year / unlimited km extended warranty coming as Tata tries to revive sales

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Originally Posted by sharninder View Post
The old logo and the brand, even though it maybe close to 100 years old, doesn't evoke the same feeling in younger car buyers as it did among the older generation.
The brand is old but the logo is relatively newer. The first gen Safari,Sumo etc had the straight T logo. However I personally believe that badge is not the issue. If it was the Harrier would not have generated the interest it did.

I would think that the Harrier has a good design and the marketing campaign too was never lacking. Their trouble is product strategy, engineering and sales.

The product strategy which resulted in the current feature mix is fundamentally flawed. If the invested in the D8 platform no sense building just a 2WD. There is no differentiating feature so to say. They positioned it in a space which invites comparisons with the excellent Hexa having more features which makes the Harrier seem less buck bang for the buck. The pricing shows overconfidence.

The sales team acts as if they are distributing ration at a ration shop. Very little enthusiasm or aggressiveness.

Engineering turned the much vaunted D8 platform and the stellar design into a parody of sorts with niggles and constraining features.

The big mistake I see the marketing team made was trying to achieve a premium positioning which pitted it against more aggressive bling feature laden products.
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Old 10th September 2019, 12:29   #64
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Default Re: Harrier: 5 year / unlimited km extended warranty coming as Tata tries to revive sales

Tata Harrier has seen its sales dip. So have the sales of most other vehicles except the ones like Hector and Seltos who have hit the market just a few months back. While Tata could have handled the launch better and should have done the product features planning better ( Sun- roof, reclining rear seats) the media and the car buying public has come down on Tata Motors harder than other brands.

The Jeep Compass too got off to a flying start. Now its sales have also fallen. While it started off with both Petrol and Diesel power-plants, they did not have an automatic till the Trail Hawk was launched. The Hector again has the automatic only with the petrol option as off now.

While the market demands has shifted in favour of Auto transmission except for the XUV 500, none of the products (in the 15-20 lakh ) SUV's ( Creta and Seltos are much smaller) have a Diesel Automatic.

MG's is a feature rich product which has changed the game significantly. Now people find the Compass and the Harrier expensive especially when they lack features like the Sunroof, reclining seats, e connectivity etc. Moreover, MG has created differentiation by offering a 5 year warranty and 60% buy back guarantee after 3 years. These too are industry firsts and Tata can hardly be blamed for not having them to start with.

What Tata has erred on, is the high nvh levels of the engine and some other issues ( a lot of which have now been resolved).

Cars like the Civic also started with a bang and the sales have sharply fallen. Similar is the case with the Alturas.

The negativity of the market has effected all the industry players and Tata is no exception. However, as is usually the case , the media and the car buyers have come down a lot harder on Tata Motors compared to the others.

The Harrier is a good product and if Tata launch the Auto transmission equipped car soon and up the kit, this vehicle may still go on to be a success.

Last edited by rajneeesh : 10th September 2019 at 12:32.
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Old 10th September 2019, 14:09   #65
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Default Re: Harrier: 5 year / unlimited km extended warranty coming as Tata tries to revive sales

I am quite hopeful that Tata's are working out changes in line with market dynamics. The extended warranty is the first step, other actions will follow; this may include similar engine output as that of Compass from the FIAT Engine, Slushbox and may be an AWD if not a proper 4WD.

TML has witnessed the reaction of market, the new generation competition and the upcoming Euro VI compliance. The fixes required are inevitable. Aria to Hexa is a commendable job; we should wait a little more for Harrier V2 (very similar to the Indica V1, which was a failure whereas V2 was a success - More car per car)

I would request few newly joined members @ tbhp to refrain from calling it a day for Harrier just because they have some so called "sources" at TML; which typically downgrades the efforts of a company and its efforts of making a product successful.

My only concern would be on the time that they have in hand. Its just few months in which they should turn the tables !

Last edited by i74js : 10th September 2019 at 14:16.
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Old 10th September 2019, 19:00   #66
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Default Re: Harrier: 5 year / unlimited km extended warranty coming as Tata tries to revive sales

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Originally Posted by i74js View Post

I would request few newly joined members @ tbhp to refrain from calling it a day for Harrier just because they have some so called "sources" at TML; which typically downgrades the efforts of a company and its efforts of making a product successful.

My only concern would be on the time that they have in hand. Its just few months in which they should turn the tables !
Hey i74js,

I also want the Harrier and Tata Motors to succeed and please read my previous posts where I have quoted my sources. I have not in a single post mentioned that the Harrier is going to be doomed. In fact I have given other members who are waiting for an updated Harrier with more features some inside info that the Harrier is going to come with an auto box, a panoramic sunroof and 170 hp engine with BS6 compliance.

And the only thing I said against the Harrier is that it is not getting any AWD/4WD variant for the foreseeable future. Cheers.
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Old 10th September 2019, 19:19   #67
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Default Re: Harrier: 5 year / unlimited km extended warranty coming as Tata tries to revive sales

The manufacturer can make a lot of changes and take a lot of steps to have the product come out right. The dealership experience with TATA motors is still hit or miss. Consistency lacks big time. My cousin who went to buy the Tiago AMT was literally turned off by the attitude of the dealership (not going to name the dealership). Invariably, the customer experience at the dealership is important to pick up the product.

Not everyone assess the products deeply to ignore the dealer and buy the product. Unfortunately, this aspect TATA has to seriously invest big time to get the dealership experience right.
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Old 10th September 2019, 22:40   #68
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Default Re: Harrier: 5 year / unlimited km extended warranty coming as Tata tries to revive sales

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Originally Posted by Nithesh_M View Post
Its high time Tata ditch that ugly badge and design something modern. That badge gives me PTSD because it reminds me of their horrible products from 2 decades ago. They finally managed to build something that isn't sharing body lines with the Indica but that logo

I have heard people say how hideous the badge is. However it looks as if it will remain for a while. Just reminds me of the last words of Oscar Wilde in his hotel room, "This wallpaper and I are fighting a duel to the death. One or the other of us has to go". I hope the badge goes and Tata stays. Unlike poor Oscar.
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Old 10th September 2019, 22:59   #69
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Default Re: Harrier: 5 year / unlimited km extended warranty coming as Tata tries to revive sales

I think the biggest issue is with the after sales. Even if your car had a few niggles, if the service centre guys are courteous enough to acknowledge and fix it then people will be ready to forgive. But alas, that is not the case with tata. I have had horrible experiences from tata service centres for my punto which made me not even consider the Nexon as my next car. And going through some of the ownership experiences, I see that things aren't much improved even now.
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Old 10th September 2019, 23:41   #70
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Default Re: Harrier: 5 year / unlimited km extended warranty coming as Tata tries to revive sales

Although I agree Tata should up its game in terms of quality and after sales service, there is one more thing that they need to work on: make Harrier less hefty and offer fuel efficient petrol engines. Apart from the gizmos that MG Hector and Seltos offers, the other reason why they are outselling Harrier from the start is the presence of good petrol engines too.

Personally, I love the Harrier and it would a big disappointment to see a great looking and capable car fail within two years of launch just because some idiots in the manufacturing and after sales department couldn't remove those wrinkles in time.
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Old 11th September 2019, 08:05   #71
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Default Re: Harrier: 5 year / unlimited km extended warranty coming as Tata tries to revive sales

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Originally Posted by NiInJa View Post
Although I agree Tata should up its game in terms of quality and after sales service, there is one more thing that they need to work on: make Harrier less hefty and offer fuel efficient petrol engines. Apart from the gizmos that MG Hector and Seltos offers, the other reason why they are outselling Harrier from the start is the presence of good petrol engines too.

Personally, I love the Harrier and it would a big disappointment to see a great looking and capable car fail within two years of launch just because some idiots in the manufacturing and after sales department couldn't remove those wrinkles in time.
Completely agree with you Ninja. In fact Tata is working on a turbocharged direct injection petrol engine for the Harrier. If I am not wrong it's around 1.6 litres in capacity. It is also likely to come with a mild hybrid system. But even if Tata launches a petrol Harrier it needs to be seen how fuel efficient it will be as we all know the reported fuel efficiency figures of the Hector petrol.

Regarding weight of the Harrier, I think you should not compare it with Seltos or Creta but rather Hector and XUV 500 because size wise it is quite bigger than both the former cars. Also I think this is the first time that Tata has managed to keep the weight of its SUV well below the 2 tonne mark. That's the biggest benefit of using D8 platform.

I think Tata is like one of those restaurants whose chefs cook up lip smacking dishes but the waiters and managers who actually handle the customers screw it up

Last edited by ram87pune : 11th September 2019 at 08:18.
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:15   #72
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Default Re: Harrier: 5 year / unlimited km extended warranty coming as Tata tries to revive sales

I'm a bit surprised that the Tata emblem is being counted as one of the contributors of the dismal sales of Tata cars! If that was ever a contributor, brands like Subaru, Honda, Vauxhaull, Lincoln et al would never have made an impression - they have absolutely stupid logos. When it comes to decision making, its the product and confidence in maintaining it that matters to the customers and not the brand logo. Otherwise Unilever would never have become the mammoth that it is by market share. (Not talking about product quality here though.) There are not so many horror stories in the past that people should / do associate the logo to negative experience. Remember - more than half of our country's transport in the form of trucks and buses - runs with the Tata logo. Harriers and Hexas are a little drop in the ocean!

In fact the modernized Tata logo (from late 90s to now) is very well thought out. It shows off its pedigree of the proud business house from India. And it actually is a direct connection to Tata Motors specifically. Look carefully and you'll actually see 2 carriageways of a highway coming from 2 sides and merging with a median. The whole group is actually using a logo mainly connected with the automotive arm. It looks smart & carries a lot of respect all over the world. EXCEPT - from the showroom staff!

Investing money in re-branding would be the stupidest way to spend money instead of using all of it in correcting the actual user experience related niggles.

Last edited by Reinhard : 11th September 2019 at 10:17.
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Old 12th September 2019, 13:04   #73
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Default Re: Harrier: 5 year / unlimited km extended warranty coming as Tata tries to revive sales

I am confused why TATA is not providing the connectivity features in Harrier. TATA owns one of the biggest IT Services companies in the whole world for god's sake! It should have been a piece of cake for them to get help from TCS for this! I know these companies work independently, but still! In fact TATA could have added the connectivity features to all its vehicles so as to distinguish it from the competition
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Old 12th September 2019, 13:35   #74
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Default Re: Harrier: 5 year / unlimited km extended warranty coming as Tata tries to revive sales

The dealership experience is the biggest pain point for TATA. Poor communication with the customers, many sales advisors have no clue about what they are talking about even after 6-8 years of working in the same company! Expecting better experience from TATA's only subsidiary Concorde, I walked in there, only to be disappointed. When the sales advisors are sitting right near you behind just a pane of glass, they keep you waiting for 15 minutes. They just don't care about your time. When registration and delivery can be done in a matter of a few days, they just keep you waiting for weeks citing one reason or the other. Each visit to dealership is a waste of time. How can a customer expect good ownership experience when the buying experience itself is strictly average?
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Old 12th September 2019, 13:47   #75
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Default Re: Harrier: 5 year / unlimited km extended warranty coming as Tata tries to revive sales

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I am confused why TATA is not providing the connectivity features in Harrier. TATA owns one of the biggest IT Services companies in the whole world for god's sake! It should have been a piece of cake for them to get help from TCS for this! I know these companies work independently, but still! In fact TATA could have added the connectivity features to all its vehicles so as to distinguish it from the competition
I suspect its financial reasons. A true "Connected car" includes an emergency services auto-call in distress etc. That entails tie up with a fairly costly eSIM provider like Vodafone, tie up & setup of call-center with 24x7 services for customer / car sourced calls that are trained to be polished & capable of routing emergency services for that area properly. I.e. expenses in constant training for staff, additional quality control requirements et al. The cost for this setup must be deterring TML which is currently seeing no good sales.

Its a must have by the looks of it since Seltos-Hector are selling a lot purely due to these features as well. There is also a dimension of "This car lacks features that even a Venue has". Its easy for anyone to forget about the features that the car does offer. This has happened with many capable cars on our roads. For example the EcoSport doesn't get its justified dues in sales for what it offers.

Indeed TML should invest this bit to make it a proper modern car with contemporary bells and whistles that are appearing as glaringly missing. Nobody likes to buy a car where friends will point out missing bits on first ride! Basics.
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