[TorqueIndia]

Originally Posted by YD14

My opinion is only based on online reviews and my conclusion is that its better than most but Hyundai's 1.0L turbo just has a bit more responsiveness and smooth. But its strictly my opinion from second hand knowledge, so its credibility is definitely low.

This is point I wanted to make and may have not been successful in it. With a 1.5L turbo petrol the best one can hope is 250 Nm of torque and with 1.7 ton weight of Harrier the torque to weight ratio just won't be enough, unless Tata can produce a miracle.

These heavy petrol SUVs are not for thrills , but just to have much more market presence and lower price tag . If you want sporty performance you may have to stick with Diesel, that is the case with all SUVs weighing more than 1.5ton except premium brands like Audi,Merc,BMW,Landrover or some VW TSi .

Jeep Compass, MG Hector have small capacity turbo petrols on sale, both are heavy vehicles weighing around 1.7ton and are dull to drive compared to their Diesel counterpart. But both sells well ,and for MG petrol is the preferred power train as revealed by sales data.
MG Hector petrol sales accounted for about 60-70% in the 1st year of launch , which is down to 55% now. Harrier sales were always ahead of Diesel Hector from the launch. Now Tata want to close the gap since 1.5T Petrol can be priced as low as around 2 Lakhs cheaper than equivalent diesel which will boost the sales further.

Another surprise is that 50% of Nexon sales were from turbo petrols and Nexon 1.2 Turbo is one of the most sold Turbo petrol vehicle in India.

Have a Turbo petrol test drive too.

[aditya79india]

Originally Posted by YD14

......... makes 170 Nm and isn't the best in its own class. I don't understand how adding one more cylinder to it would make it competitive at 22L........

This is a generic reply. Most turbo petrols are derivatives of existing engine designs, unless an entirely new gen engine is coming up. This is a relatively easier and less time/cost consuming exercise. However, developing a new gearbox is a very lengthy and expensive proposition. Therefore, the torque limits on turbo petrols are more restricted by capability of gearboxes in current lineup. These figures may not be indicative of true potential of the engine. As to the question, why not develop a new gearbox all together, well the cost is just too high, unless the production run is large enough......which isnt the case at present. Maybe sometime in the future it may be feasible unless clouded by electrification of mobility.

[Napalm]

Originally Posted by YD14

This is point I wanted to make and may have not been successful in it. With a 1.5L turbo petrol the best one can hope is 250 Nm of torque and with 1.7 ton weight of Harrier the torque to weight ratio just won't be enough, unless Tata can produce a miracle.

Referring to Harrier as a "1.7 ton beast" even though we are talking about a turbo-Petrol version here may not be correct.
We can't assume that Harrier's Petrol version will also weigh 1.7 ton, just because its current diesel variant weighs 1.7 ton.

Case in point : the MG Hector petrol 1.5 Turbo-petrol(similar to Tata's allegedly under-dev petrol for Harrier) variants weigh between 1,554 kg to 1,644 kg while the diesel(same engine as Harrier) variants weigh between 1,633 kg to 1,700 kg.

Source : https://www.rushlane.com/mg-hector-w...-12313490.html(Assuming Rushlane has not falsified any figures)

Harrier diesel also weighs(about the same as Hector diesel) 1,650 to 1,675 kg. ~100 Kgs makes a difference.

Originally Posted by YD14

The diesel has 350 Nm of torque which is needed to pull a 1.7 ton beast.

Tata's engine selection is simply beyond my understanding.

I'm just hoping the rumour stays a rumour and the new XUV 500 with 2.0L turbo petrol will bring some sense to Tata. I love the Harrier, but even after being in market for almost 2 years it still lacks a good petrol engine and an automatic option (even with diesel) in the mid trim (XT/XT+).

It is not difficult to understand their selection once you see the volumes that Hector-petrol is getting. They do have pretty good sense of the market. That's why they did not launch AWD in Harrier. Also we must realize that Tata is in the business of selling cars profitably and not in the business of only pleasing enthusiasts like us.

But I too wish that Harrier gets a more powerful 2.0 L Turbo-petrol, just like XUV5OO is presumed to get. Also on my wish-list is a XTA+ Auto variant, because that will be a good, affordable, auto variant of Harrier for people with sub-18/20 Lakh rupees budget .

[pseudo_coder]

Originally Posted by TorqueIndia

MG Hector petrol sales accounted for about 60-70% in the 1st year of launch , which is down to 55% now.

Surprised with this. In the used car market, all I see is petrol Hectors. Only saw one diesel recently, and it got sold in a few days. I think the single reason for this is the abysmal FE of the petrol. 6-7 kmpl destroys the peace of mind for many, myself included. What you save on the purchase price is one time, while filling the tank happens weekly.

People waiting for Harrier petrol, how do you see this? Is saving of a lakh or two enough to compensate for lower FE and lower performance?

[07CR]

Originally Posted by pseudo_coder

People waiting for Harrier petrol, how do you see this? Is saving of a lakh or two enough to compensate for lower FE and lower performance?

IMO these kind of petrol SUV are best bought used. They depreciate rather quickly, and you save a lot (even though low mileage, the initial savings are massive). And since these are petrol, even maintenance is bound to be lower.

[YD14]

Originally Posted by pseudo_coder

People waiting for Harrier petrol, how do you see this? Is saving of a lakh or two enough to compensate for lower FE and lower performance?

Personally speaking, do not care about a lakh difference, as long as both petrol and diesel are within budget, do not care about fuel efficiency and do not want lower performance (that's why expecting powerful petrols to be available in the market).

Then why this obsession with petrol? Well a petrol engine is a petrol engine and a diesel engine is a diesel engine. I simply do not like the way diesels deliver power, surges and flatter towards top end. I also do not like their sound (referring type of sound not loudness). We never use music in our car so the engine is always audible no matter how good the insulation. There are always exception to above conditions, but the 2.0L Multijet from Fiat is not one of them.

I have done some calculations considering initial purchase price and fuel costs alone. Based on our total running of a car, petrol car would cost around 70k more than diesel overall if the engines return 8kmpl and 14kmpl fuel consumption respectively, averaged over all kilometers driven. I believe that much money is not enough to live the next 10 years of one's life with a car whose shortcomings were unacceptable to one.

P.S.: I don't hate diesels, I just prefer petrols.

[MadAxe]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

Hello bhpians. Please read my post (no 525) from the Harrier official review thread. I have already mentioned this long back that Harrier petrol is NOT coming before 2022.

Even the first beta engine has not been fired up yet and this ceremony is expected to take place in the next few months. This is a brand new direct injection(a Tata first) engine and Tata needs to put in a lot of testing before it finds it's way in the OMEGA platform.

This engine is expected only once the CAFE norms kick in and will come mated to Tata's inhouse developed 7 speed wet clutch DCT.

Don't know what the guys at Autocar are smoking these days. First they got the wheel size of the BS6 Harrier wrong and now this.

I request mods to close this thread till any concrete info is available on the same. And rest assured, I will be the first person to share such info with the bhpians.

Any update on the launch date?
Some so called news portals are claiming that it would be launched alongside the Gravitas if not then few weeks after that.

[curiousnewbie]

Any update on petrol/diesel facelift harrier ?

[ramki.grandhi]

With all the buzz created by XUV700, it is high time TATA should consider petrol engine for Harrier and accelerate launch plans.

[SNA411]

Originally Posted by YD14

Then why this obsession with petrol? Well a petrol engine is a petrol engine and a diesel engine is a diesel engine. I simply do not like the way diesels deliver power, surges and flatter towards top end.

What if I told you that the characteristic that you've mentioned is not of diesel engines, but of all Turbo-charged engines, irrespective of whether petrol or diesel.

So a turbo-petrol will also behave the same way, and there is no NA petrol left that will provide satisfactory performance for such a heavy car.

I guess for us NA fans, the Swift will remain the ultimate fun affordable car.

[jetsetgo08]

I am surprised at people wanting petrol SUV's given the current fuel prices. One would be looking at an EMI's worth of money as Fuel expenses alone. It is strictly suggested only for people with less than 500km/month run. In which case a valid question would be, do they even need a big butch SUV in first place?

Mahindra may go all gaga over the petrol engine in XUV700, but when it comes to the numbers it will be the diesel that will dominate. Same with the Thar.

It would be much better if Tata could work on a hybrid or some technology for petrol engines that can approximately match the running costs of a diesel car. Otherwise, there will be no takers.

However, the game is different in the sub Rs.10L case or budget purchases, as the diesel variants are significantly costlier by Rs.1.5-2L. But, for someone ready to spend 2 million bucks, they would always be okay to extend their budget by 5-10% and not worry about a heavy right foot.

[ramki.grandhi]

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08

I am surprised at people wanting petrol SUV's given the current fuel prices.

Good question and I can think of below reasons for going with petrol SUVs.

1. In some states there is a 10 year rule on diesel cars. So, its hard to sell diesel car after 6-7 years. This rule might expand to other cities soon.
2. Some people have very low running, that doesn't mean they shouldn't get big car. For example, Hector has 40% share in petrol models.
3. Some of us are worried about DPF and other issues with diesel cars, which are expensive to fix in long run.
4. Petrol SUVs are relatively cheaper to maintain, suitable for low running users.
5. Having petrol SUV has its own benefits, for example: No one want to borrow your car
6. Some of us want relaxed drive with better nvh, petrol engine might offer these characteristics.
7. Petrol SUVs will let companies to offer aggressive starting price, which creates lot of buzz and free publicity.

[ram87pune]

Hello bhpians.

Just confirmed from my sources that the launch of Harrier petrol is likely to be pushed beyond 2023. The reason for this delay being XUV700.

We all know that Tata was developing a brand new 1.6 turbo GDI petrol engine to power the Harrier twins and it was supposed to be launched by 2023. Now with the arrival of the XUV700s petrol engine and its insane power figures, Tata has been forced back to the drawing board as they simply cannot compete with 200 bhp power figure of XUVs petrol engine as their own engine was going to produce around 160 odd bhp.

The 1.6 turbo petrol engine was anyways not going to be enough for the Harrier twin SUVs which weigh around 1.6 to 1.7 tonnes. And also cost of this engine is proving to be exorbitantly high and Tata may have had to price the petrol variants of the Harrier twins on similar lines to their diesel counterparts.

So now Tata has stopped development of the 1.6 petrol and are likely to come up with a 1.8 or 2.0 capacity engine to have better chances of going up against the XUV700.

Stay tuned for more info.

[Shreyas_H]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

Hello bhpians.

Just confirmed from my sources that the launch of Harrier petrol is likely to be pushed beyond 2023. The reason for this delay being XUV700.

We all know that Tata was developing a brand new 1.6 turbo GDI petrol engine to power the Harrier twins and it was supposed to be launched by 2023. Now with the arrival of the XUV700s petrol engine and its insane power figures, Tata has been forced back to the drawing board as they simply cannot compete with 200 bhp power figure of XUVs petrol engine as their own engine was going to produce around 160 odd bhp.

Stay tuned for more info.

Good decision IMO, Mahindra has already made the Harrier/Safari look overpriced and if the petrol was comparatively underpowered too, it would have had no takers.

Wishful thinking I know, but why not take the 2L Injenium Petrol from JLR and put in an AWD system and create a truly halo Harrier!

[SaiSW]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

We all know that Tata was developing a brand new 1.6 turbo GDI petrol engine to power the Harrier twins and it was supposed to be launched by 2023. Now with the arrival of the XUV700s petrol engine and its insane power figures, Tata has been forced back to the drawing board as they simply cannot compete with 200 bhp power figure of XUVs petrol engine as their own engine was going to produce around 160 odd bhp.

It could be that or maybe they're experimenting some sort of hybrid tech for the petrol? A person couple replies above mentioned the problems associated with owning a big petrol suv and how tata should look to implement some sort of hybrid tech to their petrol version.

I think it is that. Maybe they really want to make some money off the petrol Harrier instead of just a few sales from Delhi (and anywhere else with the 10 yr rule). A 160 hp hybrid petrol with liveable mileage figures (hopefully 12+ kmpl) would, in my opinion, give them more sales figures than a retuned 200+ hp version to one-up the XUV.