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Old 1st August 2022, 11:14   #91
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re: Honda Cars to discontinue production of Jazz, WR-V and 4th-gen City in India

I think with all the global players they are rationing the resources for now. Unlike in the past when the sun was shining on liquidity and economic outlook was decent, many companies experimented.

But since these giants cater to a global market, their focus and priority will be either high volume or high profit markets.

The bigger challenge is companies who have to tailor their product to "Indian standards"
Companies who get the mix right to see success, like Hyundai and Kia, who have given the visuals and taken away the mechanicals and safety.

Skoda and VW are trying the same trick with India 2.0 story. Seems to have worked a bit for now.

Honda tried with their Brio platform but the horrible interiors and obvious cost cutting meant that the products were rejected.


I will not be surprised if Honda leaves but honestly I feel they will become like Toyota focusing on 2 prodcuts and get done with it.
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Old 7th August 2022, 06:03   #92
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Re: Honda Cars to discontinue production of Jazz, WR-V and 4th-gen City in India

For those who understand Malayalam, there is a good discussion on the journey of Honda in India by Jayadev and Vivek on their YouTube channel, 'Talking Cars'.

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Old 7th August 2022, 09:18   #93
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Re: Honda Cars to discontinue production of Jazz, WR-V and 4th-gen City in India

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Originally Posted by 2000rpm View Post
Look what I found today!!
Back from a time when they were actually innovative. Its hard to think that the same company which made the OHC VTEC and the og Civic has been reduced to a state like this. Its obvious something happened to their India leadership early during the first half of the last decade that made the quality of their products go down so drastically.

I sincerely hope Honda doesn't go down Ford's path and give up on our market. The last thing our market needs right now is even MORE accumulation of market share by maruti.
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Old 7th August 2022, 09:45   #94
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Re: Honda Cars to discontinue production of Jazz, WR-V and 4th-gen City in India

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Originally Posted by SaiSW View Post
I sincerely hope Honda doesn't go down Ford's path and give up on our market. The last thing our market needs right now is even MORE accumulation of market share by maruti.
Until unless we get any clear indication, we cannot be certain about the future of Honda. But one thing is certain, MSIL is not going to accumulate any market share out of it. They can throw everything including the sink but Hyundai, Kia, Mahindra and TATA are better prepared this time around. In fact, everyone thought that MSIL will become the NOKIA of the Indian Auto industry soon and they themselves felt that it would not be a totally unrealistic thought. What we see today with the new Baleno /Brezza / Vitara is this desperate measure to get into customer's minds and pockets.
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Old 7th August 2022, 10:52   #95
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Re: Honda Cars to discontinue production of Jazz, WR-V and 4th-gen City in India

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Originally Posted by AmitSingapore View Post
Isn’t the blame should be on the people and the car buying Indian mindset in general ?

Won’t pay for quality and happy with a tin cup like Dzire ! We need to understand that with global supply line going through a generational change - a 10 lac INR car (15K USD) can’t come with the quality, power, and mileage all packed together !

Govt flip flops ? Taxation ? Dealer’s high-handedness ?

A potential R tagged vehicle perhaps coming soon. Thank you.
Every country or region has its own complexities, whether it’s the preferences of the people, government taxation or right down to the road conditions. Some manufacturers manage it well and others simply don’t.
Honda has not made the right cars at the right price for the Indian market. Forget right price, they could have even charged a premium and gotten away with it. But where are the cars?
Some one as small as Ford, introduced the Ecosport so many years ago! What did Honda do in this segment? The WRV! Seriously! And that was such a half baked effort that it did not get the right engines and the gearboxes.
Almost every manufacturer today has a turbo petrol in their offering including the likes of Renault etc, but Honda, not even in their most important car ( City )!

And the thing is, Honda has had all the time in India! The crossover segment really started picking up 5-6 years ago, absolutely no excuse for Honda not to have a Brezza rival and neither a Creta rival in 2022.

While I agree that the Korean cars have all fared miserably in the crash tests, Tata, Mahindra, Renault have all shown what is possible. Even the Brezza did ok!


Honda need not pack everything in a car. Most cars have their pros and cons. Tata does not have the right Petrol engines, Hyundai petrols don’t deliver fuel efficiency like a Suzuki, Hyundais and Kias have their structural issues, so every car has some issue or the other. But that didn’t stop the manufacturers from introducing new models and constantly trying, right? Kia is trying to make amends by providing 6 airbags as standard, not saying that’s the right way for compensating the structural issues, but it’s an attempt.

Honda need not get everything perfect for their cars. And even now, the new City has its flaws ( entertainment unit for example ), but aren’t people buying it?

So let’s not blame everything else for Honda’s laziness and indecisiveness.
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Old 7th August 2022, 13:10   #96
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Re: Honda Cars to discontinue production of Jazz, WR-V and 4th-gen City in India

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Originally Posted by motorworks View Post
Every country or region has its own complexities, whether it’s the preferences of the people, government taxation or right down to the road conditions. Some manufacturers manage it well and others simply don’t.
Honda has not made the right cars at the right price for the Indian market. Forget right price, they could have even charged a premium and gotten away with it. But where are the cars?
x
x

So let’s not blame everything else for Honda’s laziness and indecisiveness.

Great observation.

Honda/Toyota, in the developed markets - really don’t care /compete with Kia/Koreans. US/EU/North Asia covers their deep pocket and bottomline. India is a nuanced market for global auto makers. The same reason why for eg. Mondeo, Pontiac/Citroen, RAM, F150’s, T-Roc, and we can name so many - never see the light of the day (compliance factors - they come, they quietly take it away).

With BS6 and other doped up norms plus the unhealthy pricing competition from home grown Maruti’s /Tata/Mahindra (and they only survive with mass scale reach) many Japanese/EU/US car makers will only keep a very few selected mass produced portfolios and a few high end global standard cars to make up for the existential cost. Same reason why a RAV4 or a Honda Vezel platform never saw lights in India. Ditto for new gen CR-V’s or the top of the line R badge portfolios. Sad truth - india is not a priority market but a fringe market for these global car makers. They do not see 600 million middle class india market as a profitable market but a high investment, high maintenance but very Low margin market (tax, difficulty of doing business, weather, road status, gas quality etc adds to it). Impending recession, EV dreams etc are adding on top of it.

The days of India getting those new spec Vtec, Ford 2.4 ltr S trim, 1.8 or 2.0 TSI+DSG or a V6/V8 etc etc are gone. They have realised that the mass market is happy with the archaic 1.3 Mjd, just plonk a new body and a few LED’s and chrome here and there and people are happy for 2/3 years and repeat the cycle again - Kia’s are great with that too - VW learning fast and Maruti/Tata/Mahindra’s has mastered the art long ago. So in a nutshell, it is not Japanese and some other car makers don’t know or bad leadership there - it is a conscious decision at a certain point to not to compete and bring the best cars/engine/trims anymore to India.

Ford made absolutely zero loss by moving out of india, Honda and Toyota will make zero loss by removing many trims and just keeping a few mass market ones. But a few high end trims will come soon I’m sure - it will be at a premium of INR 30lacs categories, global specs, less margin for the dealers (another story there). “Make in India” is a brilliant tag line, but the reality for the real connoisseurs (whether Car, Bikes, high end electronics, good whisky, World class hotels, etc etc) are nothing less than nightmare ! As a small example - my family in Delhi still maintains the old canary yellow Skoda Octavia RS (if you know you know what is that - Bhpian Ajmat used to have one I remember) and most modern beemers or Audis can’t follow it’s tail lights in the highway even today ! It costs us 5 lac + for a total clutch overhaul plus some gear box fix by getting spares directly from Skoda Europe. Emotionally it makes a lot of sense for me, but as a car company, Skoda must be laughing and they can’t survive/ nor most companies would want to have any such business model in India today. Thanks gentlemen (& ladies)

Last edited by Eddy : 7th August 2022 at 15:07. Reason: Shortening quoted portion and proper spacing in the reply - both for better readability
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Old 20th September 2022, 15:22   #97
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Re: Honda Cars to discontinue production of Jazz, WR-V and 4th-gen City in India

As Honda will discontinue the Jazz, fourth-gen City, and WR-V – in India, the focus will be on Hybrids.

Quote:
This will leave the Japanese carmaker with just two models in its India portfolio – the fifth-gen City and Amaze. However, a critical third model – a compact SUV (codename: 3US) – is set to join the range in 2023. This offering is also expected to get a strong hybrid motor from the Honda City HEV.
Link
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Old 20th September 2022, 15:30   #98
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Re: Honda Cars to discontinue production of Jazz, WR-V and 4th-gen City in India

Notably, in the link, there is some breakeven analysis, and says that based on current cost structure hybrids cannot compete against petrol.

Quote:
CRISIL Research suggests that hybrid vehicles can compete for market share with diesel vehicles and not against petrol or CNG variants based on cost economics. The current price differential between a hybrid and petrol variant is ~30 percent while that between a hybrid and diesel is 15 percent. For a personal petrol vehicle buyer who on average drives 10,000 km annually, the breakeven for a hybrid would only be over 10 years based on current ARAI mileage figures, says Pushan Sharma, director of CRISIL research.
Link

Last edited by ajayc123 : 20th September 2022 at 15:32.
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Old 16th October 2022, 20:12   #99
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Re: Honda Cars to discontinue production of Jazz, WR-V and 4th-gen City in India

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Originally Posted by SchumiFan View Post
Hopefully it's just to clear the line for any new product in the design stages. The Compact SUV perhaps and the Creta challenger as well.

Creta has gone through 3 iterations I think since its launch and yet Honda can't bring one car to challenge it in India. Could sack the entire management for the way they are running the company that was once the apple of the eye of customers aspiring for a premium car.

Even the BRV was a good option which was discontinued prematurely. Wonder what goes on in their heads. If not for the brilliant 1.5L petrol, they would have shut shop long ago in India I guess.
I am just wondering if Tata Motors or Mahindras have made some offer to the top Honda officials like they did to Anurag of Ford. Am sure that there was something that was cooking for a long time in the background for Anurag. Similarly, there is something that is cooking in the background against Honda. The market goodwill, that some fellow member talked about, is really great for Honda and they have a huge fan following. The bullet proof reliability of their engines is an aspect which they have not been able to en-cash upon. Add to that the 4 star safety ratings for 2 of their vehicles was an ace which could have worked wonders had Honda marketed it properly.

One sales guy told me that Honda focuses on just one model at a time and others are pushed behind. Right now, it seems to be just the city. But how will they be able to fight it out with only two models. They have always been a late mover in the market. The end result is that they have very few takers.

Mod Note : New thread and poll created. Please continue the discussion at this link.

Last edited by Aditya : 2nd April 2023 at 18:50. Reason: Link to new thread added
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