[Carma2017]

For reference, I went to check out the Nissan Note 1.2 e-power today. Had a test drive and I can safely say the driving pleasure of this vehicle was stupendous (as good as an EV) with ample torque and pull at low speeds but above 100 k/h the vehicle struggled. If Suzuki can achieve this level, they have a winner as the claimed mileage as per Japanese cycle was appx 34 kmpl. The sales guy told me as per WLTP it would be close to 28kmpl. The Indian cycle is somewhere in between. Point to be noted is that the Note is not a very small car. In an ultralight car like Baleno/Swift, the Power would be sufficient. If only Suzuki can achieve Nissan levels...

[ron178]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

For reference, I went to check out the Nissan Note 1.2 e-power today.

Interesting to read. Not sure how Nissan’s system compares to others but one thing I have been wondering about this series hybrid tech over the last week is the correlation between throttle input and engine rpm. Being a generator does the engine kick in only based on battery status or does accelerating hard trigger it even at high SoC? And if it is the former does that make the sound unnatural?

Originally Posted by Carma2017

Engine has two functions. It can either charge battery or directly power the motor when throttle input is high.

Thanks. Somehow I did not consider that the generator could power the motor without the intermediate battery.

So I take it then that: in a parallel hybrid the engine either drives the wheels mechanically or charges the battery which powers the motor, whereas in a series hybrid the engine either directly powers the motor which drives the wheels or it charges the battery which then powers the motor. So the engine is never mechanically connected to the wheels and it is practically an EV in terms driving.

Originally Posted by Carma2017

there are no brake pedals

Do you mean an optional one-pedal driving mode (as in Honda Jazz e:HEV) or simply no brake pedal?!

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by ron178

Interesting to read. Not sure how Nissan’s system compares to others but one thing I have been wondering about this series hybrid tech over the last week is the correlation between throttle input and engine rpm. Being a generator does the engine kick in only based on battery status or does accelerating hard trigger it even at high SoC? And if it is the former does that make the sound unnatural?

Engine has two functions. It can either charge battery or directly power the motor when throttle input is high. But in the e-power versions, there are no brake pedals because the regen is very strong and immediately lowers the speed when throttle is eased.

[starke]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

But in the e-power versions, there are no brake pedals because the regen is very strong and immediately lowers the speed when throttle is eased.

Sorry to correct you here, the ePower does have a brake pedal (There is almost no car exist without a brake pedal as it is a regulation)

The one-pedal driving just increases the regen to maximum where we could just rely on accelerator alone in city driving to stop the car on a slower speed.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by starke

Sorry to correct you here, the ePower does have a brake pedal (There is almost no car exist without a brake pedal as it is a regulation)

The one-pedal driving just increases the regen to maximum where we could just rely on accelerator alone in city driving to stop the car on a slower speed.

Thanks for the correction. I actually meant to say brake pedals are not required and I actually did not use them during test drive

[starke]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

Thanks for the correction. I actually meant to say brake pedals are not required and I actually did not use them during test drive

No worries. Since you are here also try out the X-Trail ePower too, its so good in-terms of acceleration and agility.

Series hybrid would be a better idea as an easy transition from existing ICE as it would reduce complexity and can enjoy the full electric motor advantages.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by starke

No worries. Since you are here also try out the X-Trail ePower too, its so good in-terms of acceleration and agility.

Series hybrid would be a better idea as an easy transition from existing ICE as it would reduce complexity and can enjoy the full electric motor advantages.

I tried the Serena which a colleague has. It has a slightly more powerful engine and still returned a mileage as good as an Innova. I used to think that Toyota was the gold standard of Hybrids but the Serena surprised me. Quiet and as efficient as a Hycross and power was not a problem. Sorry for going off topic.

I don't think refinement would be as good in Suzuki versions based on my experience of AMT.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by starke

Sorry to correct you here, the ePower does have a brake pedal (There is almost no car exist without a brake pedal as it is a regulation)

Originally Posted by Carma2017

Thanks for the correction. I actually meant to say brake pedals are not required and I actually did not use them during test drive

I hope there is a way to switch off the regen (or set it to zero) like in EVs.
Lot of us like the coasting effect where the momentum of the vehicle keeps it rolling even when you lift off the throttle.

[starke]

Originally Posted by Guna

I hope there is a way to switch off the regen (or set it to zero) like in EVs.
Lot of us like the coasting effect where the momentum of the vehicle keeps it rolling even when you lift off the throttle.

Yes, you can easily adjust the levels and in normal mode, it is zero regen which makes the vehicle coast normally. I use the same when driving on highways.

Originally Posted by Carma2017

I don't think refinement would be as good in Suzuki versions based on my experience of AMT.

Suzuki would be just beginning with this technology, So it would take some time for them to achieve the perfect balance, As still with Nissan the non-proportional engine rpm to the accelerator input gives a weird feeling (The engine runs when ever at its own optimum RPM to charge the battery).

[The Pianist]

Maruti can perhaps go the following route if costing allows

Discontinuing Boosterjet + TC gearbox, and bringing in the above hybrids as the direct replacement to the DDiS Diesel engine, which Maruti has been lacking in their portfolio for the sales numbers.

Maruti and Toyota are placed at the right place at the right time due to their policies.

[volkman10]

Suzuki is ditching Toyota’s hybrid system in favour of its own for its small cars.

Maruti Suzuki is developing its own cost-effective ‘series’ hybrid solution for its small cars; Toyota’s ‘series-parallel’ hybrid tech will be used on larger SUVs and MPVs.




The series choice:

Hybrids can broadly be classified into three categories: series, parallel and series-parallel. In a series hybrid, the engine serves as a generator only, thus instead of directly powering the wheels, it only produces electricity to power a battery and motor that, in turn, drives the wheels. The advantage here is lower costs as the system is relatively simple and the engine does not require a full-range gearbox. Furthermore, since the engine does not take on direct driving loads, it’s most often running in the prime efficiency rev range. Thus, fuel economy gets a huge bump up and, as we reported earlier, Maruti is targeting a figure in the 40kpl mark.

Of course, with an engine and motor on board, the question arises, why not allow both to power the wheels? That’s where the parallel and series-parallel systems come in. In the former, the engine powers the wheels via a gearbox – adds costs though – and both engine and motor power the wheels together and/or independently, however, the engine does not go into a charging-only mode. When this also happens, it’s called a series-parallel system as the engine and motor can function in both a series and parallel manner. The system, while combining the benefits of the two, also raises costs due to added components like a power split device needed for this to work.

Thus, for the mass segment where costs are a prime concern, Maruti Suzuki has cleverly chosen to opt for the series hybrid system. Though Maruti Suzuki and Toyota have plans to localise the electric motor and LTO battery cells (at TDSG, a joint venture between Toshiba Corporation, Denso Corporation and Suzuki Motor Corporation), a hybrid powertrain – which includes an IC engine, electric motor and batteries – is inherently expensive. And a 43 percent GST on top of that doesn’t help. Plus, there’s a royalty Maruti Suzuki has to pay Toyota to use its famed series-parallel hybrid technology, which seamlessly switches from ICE power to electric power.

According to industry sources, Maruti Suzuki and Toyota explored a more cost-effective parallel hybrid powertrain (code: S1 Kei) but shelved the project as it could not meet the cost targets. Both companies took another stab at the segment with a newer generation hybrid system, with components optimized to save costs, but this project too (code: S1 2 Kei) wasn’t proving financially viable and plans to develop a mass-market parallel hybrid system were altogether dropped. Sources say that Toyota was simply unable to drive down the costs of its series-parallel hybrid tech beyond a point and hence called it quits. That spurred Maruti Suzuki to look at an alternate solution and delve into a series hybrid system. Just like it had democratized automatic transmission by reviving the unsophisticated but affordable AMT technology for India, Maruti Suzuki hopes to do the same with its series hybrids, which could be the AMT equivalent in the hybrid market.

Link:

[Dharmesh M]

Range extenders are a wonderful concept. At the moment the clean sources of electricity are limited and not enough to power the EV's of the world. Range extenders bring in the efficiency by using the battery as a buffer for storing power when the car is cruising or idling or braking (regenerative). That way the fuel efficiency increases for a small cost of technology and the fear of not making it to your destination doesn't exist. Also you don't end up spending hours at pit stops getting your vehicle charged loosing precious time. Series Hybrid Range extenders keep the cost low. All in all Range extenders are a blessing. Imagine the city autos in such Hybrid avatars. It would be a boon for all.

[PreludeSH]

Trying to use some loop hole in EV policy ? Since batteries drive the motor which turns the wheel, they want to use lower GST ?

From the article below
"Where things get really interesting is that according to the Department of Revenue, an EV "that runs solely on electrical energy derived from an external source or from electrical batteries" qualifies under the 5 percent GST bracket"

https://www.autocarindia.com/auto-bl...6-again-430838

[volkman10]

The 'AMT' of Hybrids coming from Maruti Suzuki, a transitional phase to EVs.

- 20% of Grand Vitara sales are from Hybrid variant.
- Entire system of the series hybrid will be localised.
- 25% of total volumes by 2030 (for MS)
- Fronx, Baleno and Swift, all powered by the Z series engine will be recipients of this technology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckMD...l=AutocarIndia

[volkman10]

Maruti Suzuki launches new sustainable hybrid tech campaign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dias...NexaExperience