[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by Shresth_EV

After all it is a huge modification—I don’t know if Indian CMVR allows engine swap but it is equivalent of that.


Don’t give them ideas, one hybrid scandal was enough for govt to completely sideline the technology.

Does putting a genset in the trunk of a cyber truck make it a parallel hybrid? I think the key comes down to making the extender something that can be plugged in within an acceptable level of effort and sufficiently stand alone to claim that it is not designed as part of it, and is not required for day to day functioning (say like the hardtop on a convertible - adding one doesn't make it a sedan).

With a hybrid of 5km ev range, maruti is already testing the boundaries of what can be legitimately called a hybrid. I'm just taking it to it's logical conclusion. I'm sure maruti will find/draw it and position this car just next to it on the compliant side through it's legal and lobbying capabilities.

[Shresth_EV]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

Does putting a genset in the trunk of a cyber truck make it a parallel hybrid?

No, because it cannot be charged while driving. Govt has least concern whether you charge at home, fast charger or a Honda genset in the bed with cable plugged in.

So by definition it is not a hybrid. Parallel hybrid means engine should drive the wheel too which is not possible in the CBT setup example. Can it be a series hybrid? Also no, because it cannot charge on the fly.

You can’t drive any EV while it is charging, it will refuse to charge unless in P. Merely the act of keeping it in the bed does not make it hybrid.

For fronx/baleno it cannot be kept in trunk for sure, and I doubt that the said hybrid will have a plug at all — because it means having an OBC, and much more advanced BMS. That’s the basic difference in Series Hybrid (no plug) and xEV (plug present)

With a hybrid of 5km ev range, maruti is already testing the boundaries of what can be legitimately called a hybrid. I'm just taking it to its logical conclusion. I'm sure maruti will find/draw it and position this car just next to it on the compliant side through its legal and lobbying capabilities.

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

The post you replied to is satire/sarcasm

At the reading the latest reply, I really hope it is

[AyushB]

Originally Posted by volkman10

In a series hybrid, as the engine only runs to produce electricity and never directly takes on the driving load, it is most often running in the prime fuel-efficient rev range. Hence, Maruti’s HEV-powered cars are expected to give exceptional fuel economy to the tune of 35-40kpl on the test cycle and will also be a key technology to meeting future CAFE targets, which are due to get stricter in 2027.

But in the hybrid race, it is quietly zooming ahead whilst most of its rivals don’t even have a plan. And in this decade, the hybrid race could turn out to be the most important one to win.

Source: Autocar India

Top gear did it first

Come-on guys I can't believe this post has been up since Feb and no one thought how of Geoff. The electric pope mobile.

It's basically the same technology.

https://youtu.be/PCSNCs7bwCw?si=tzbU5KJHqi8NMPlv

[uditanshh]

Whenever this series hybrid tech is commercialised in India, the model that needs it the most is Brezza.

That sub4m SUV attracts higher taxes due to the anaemic 1.5L petrol NA. Its rivals have both turbo petrols and diesels. If Maruti can get some version of this series tech in the 2025 Brezza facelift, then they might probably be able to solve the lack of power on that car while giving amazing fuel efficiency. Also, since it is Maruti, then they can do that series hybrid at minimal cost difference to the current model.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by uditanshh

Whenever this series hybrid tech is commercialised in India, the model that needs it the most is Brezza.

More FE and power are always a welcome addition, but look at the numbers it sells - it's the highest selling car in India last month even with the so called "anemic" engine, no Diesel, higher tax bracket and price! Or look at the Ertiga numbers - 18K!

I don't think any of the Maruti cars currently sold in India including Bezza is suffering from a "mileage issue", but one that is suffering from the power deficiency is Jimny. Though the 1.5L engine is adequate for sedate driving / offroading, a 1.2L Turbo with a Toyota-style Hybrid system will give it the tax advantage and solve its "power" problem when it is required the most.

I'm not sure how the newly proposed series hybrid will resolve the power problem in a 4-WD car like Jimny even if we have a Turbo, as the engine will never power the tyres directly. The advantage is that they can easily make 4 wheel drive vehicles without the usual complex gear system, low-range gear box, costly and less efficient longitudinal-placed engine and heavy rear wheel drive shaft. They just need to add one motor for front wheels and an additional motor at the rear.

[ManiE]

Originally Posted by IP_Man

Series hybrid is not really new tech. Our diesel electric locomotive work on the same principle. It greatly simplify mechanical drive train by eliminating gear, clutch and differential gear box. Also it eliminate drawback of IC engine that it can not produce usable torque at low RPM.

Although I am not a mechanical or electrical expert, but I had been thinking in the same lines that if the diesel locomotives had been made much earlier to work as a generator and power the electric motors in a train, then why can't this be implemented in cars / buses / trucks as well.

The power generation in diesel locomotives is much more complex as the voltage is stepped up and down multiple times in different phases, the AC is used to power the train motors which DC will be used to supply in the bogies and passenger cabins. But in cars it should be simpler which just the DC power be used for the electric motors and other components in the car.

[mohan41]

Does it still make sense for Maruti to go ahead with this as the government clearly said there are no plans of tax cuts for Hybrids.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by mohan41

Does it still make sense for Maruti to go ahead with this as the government clearly said there are no plans of tax cuts for Hybrids.

The Japanese OEMs are not the biggest believers in the sustainability (monetarily or otherwise) of EVs on an immediate basis. So, none of them have put all their eggs in one basket and are instead hedging with Hybrids, CNG, Ethanol, Hydrogen etc. So, Hybrids are one of the Hedge against that risk. A Tax Cut helps even more but is not an essential.

[Shresth_EV]

Originally Posted by mohan41

Does it still make sense for Maruti to go ahead with this as the government clearly said there are no plans of tax cuts for Hybrids.

Fronx belongs to sub4m and <1.2P/1.5D tax slab, which by default attracts 15% lesser tax than >4m and >1.2P/1.5D segment which attracts 43%



Assuming they keep same 1.2 engine, they will fall in 28% tax slab not 43%. This is such a slept on fact, same manufacturers sell dozens of models at lower tax rate for pure ICE by making use of sub4m rule, but they only sell hybrids in higher tax segment for profit margin.

https://www.siam.in/cpage.aspx?mpgid...8&pgidtrail=85

[gauthampait]

Does adding a CNG tank to a series hybrid make this even more cost effective or is it going to be too many things stuff in?

[Kumarabhishek59]

No news on Fronx Hybrid showcase in Auto Expo?

[LakeWalker]

Originally Posted by gauthampait

Does adding a CNG tank to a series hybrid make this even more cost effective or is it going to be too many things stuff in?

Fun fact: The Chevrolet Sequel, a concept car from 2002, was a plug-in hybrid with a unique tri-fuel powertrain like you suggested. It had a 1.5-liter four-cylinder engine, a 10-kw electric motor, and a 30kg CNG tank. It never went into production though.

[gauthampait]

Interesting, I always wondered if a CNG tank could be designed to fit the spare wheel place without sacrificing boot space.

[GB muthu]

The Suzuki Fronx series hybrid with their new Z12 engine concept is so wrong. A Free piston - Linear Generator (FPLG) or flywheel-free Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) would suffice if it only has to work as a generator.

However, having a complete ICE like the Z12 onboard without leveraging its efficiency at cruising speeds, where electric motors struggle, is suboptimal. A parallel or at least a mild hybrid CVT transaxle setup would be effective.

For comparison, the 1.2 e-tech Nissan Note series hybrid achieves only 20 km/l, while the 1.5 parallel hybrid Toyota Yaris reaches 30 km/l efficiency.

The engine to look out for is Renault's 1.2 full hybrid powertrain, which could be used in the Duster without modifications and in the Triber without the turbocharger. The 28% tax structure for sub-4m vehicles with engines under 1200cc is the only way hybrid technology can reach the common Indian motorist.

[gauthampait]

Well, the in the series hybrid setup from Maruti 1.2L Z12 engine is going to work as a generator which direclty powers the motors.

Engine -> Battery -> Motor ❌ not in a continuosly cycle

Engine -> Battery & Engine ✅ Simultaneously, to bring battery to 100% battery.
Engine -> Battery ✅
Regen Braking -> Battery ✅

Engine -> Motor ✅
Battery -> Motor ✅

The one padel drive is what is going to make this car most fuel efficient.