[volkman10]

Suzuki Motor working on affordable hybrid for small cars, Maruti to consider plug-in hybrids too.

The top management stated that HQ Suzuki is working on an affordable hybrid solution for the compact cars and it will seriously consider the more expensive plug-in hybrid technology for the future.

R C Bhargava, chairman of Maruti Suzuki :

A lot of work is going on in Suzuki Japan on evolving better technology which will enable smaller cars to take advantage of the principles of hybridization to improve fuel economy and at a much more affordable cost. If that is aligned with lower GST also, I think you can look forward to small cars with much higher mileage than what they have today

Given that Maruti Suzuki is also expanding its portfolio into higher priced mid-size SUVs, a plug-in hybrid is also a potential being explored for the future.

This would essentially mean, Maruti Suzuki could offer a complete range of hybrid solutions – right from affordable series hybrid (being developed by Suzuki, current strong parallel hybrid from Toyota and a plug-in hybrid if the study concludes favourably.


Link:

[TusharK]

The market for electric vehicles in India has grown rapidly in the past few years, with Tata Motors leading the charge. However, India's largest carmaker, Maruti Suzuki, is yet to take the plunge in this growing segment. Besides, the carmaker is also betting big on hybrids.



According to R C Bhargava, Chairman of Maruti Suzuki, Suzuki Japan is developing an affordable strong-hybrid technology for the Indian market, as the cost of the hybrid tech offered by Toyota is still quite expensive.

“The cost of the technology which goes into the Toyota hybrids is still quite high, and that is why the cost of the car becomes high. Work is ongoing in Suzuki Japan on evolving better [strong hybrid] technology, which will enable smaller cars to take advantage of the principles of hybridisation to improve fuel economies at a much more affordable cost. You can look forward to small cars with much better mileage than what they have today. It all depends on how quickly and how effectively Suzuki Japan can develop a technology, which is robust and which will give the kind of results we want. At the moment, it's not there”, Bhargava said.

Currently, Maruti Suzuki has two strong-hybrid models on sale - the Grand Vitara and Invicto. Both cars use Toyota technology and are priced from Rs 18.43 lakh (ex-showroom). Bhargava believes the demand for these cars will improve if the government reduces the GST levied on hybrid vehicles, which has been set at 43%.

Source: Car and Bike

Link to Team-BHP News

[ssoni.1411]

Kudos to Maruti for this approach. They know India is still developing their EV infrastructure and hence, hybrid engines are an excellent choice. If they manage to build an affordable hybrid tech, then they are going to be at the pole position. Plus the government reducing the taxes on hybrid will be the icing on the cake. I just hope they can somehow sort out the boot space that the hybrid battery pack occupies.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by TusharK

“The cost of the technology which goes into the Toyota hybrids is still quite high, and that is why the cost of the car becomes high. Work is ongoing in Suzuki Japan on evolving better [strong hybrid] technology, which will enable smaller cars to take advantage of the principles of hybridisation to improve fuel economies at a much more affordable cost.

Curious to know how they can reduce costs compared to a Toyota hybrid.

Both series and parallel Hybrids( Toyota or Honda implantation) require 2 motors, 1 ICE engine, 1 inverter, 1 battery. Only thing Suzuki seems to be saving is a planetary gearset as compared to Toyota hybrid or a clutch compared to a Honda hybrid..

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by TusharK

The cost of the technology which goes into the Toyota hybrids is still quite high

25 year old technology which supposedly uses fraction of the "rare earth materials" than a BEV still cannot be cheaper than Petrol (higher GST) car (Creta vs Hyryder vs Grand Vitara).

My issues with this

1. I seriously doubt that they can better the hybrid technology which has been proven by Toyota for last 25 years. Why reinvent the wheel?
2. They should be looking at researching plugin hybrid rather than strong hybrid. Why invest in something which is towards a sunset?

The only thing works in their favour is that people will buy anything Maruti makes just due to its name even if it is a car like S-Presso (No offence to S-Presso owners)

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

Curious to know how they can reduce costs compared to a Toyota hybrid.

By not having to pay Toyota licensing fees, royalties etc., and having influence over its own suppliers.

[chiekennugget]

One car that comes to my mind with this technology is the BMW i3 REX. People have pretty mixed experiences with it. Some people are doing 1,00,000km+ no problem while others have nothing but problems.

I think the initial models (2015 I guess) had a lot of problems but the later ones are really good.

https://www.mybmwi3.com has some nice discussions about it.

The file attached describes the range extender/REX system. (got it from the forum

[som2024]

Actually it's a logical move by Maruti Suzuki. Switching to Hybrid will economical and affordable in comparison to EV.

*It will ensure lower running cost.
*Envrironment friendly-low CO2 emission.
*No charging required.
*Better driving all around.
*No change on how to drive.


Global Suzuki has a number of Hybrids like Ignis, Swift, Vitara, S-Cross,Swace, Across, and they will convert the existing models also.

[volkman10]

Suzuki confirms development of own strong hybrid powertrain for future models.

Maruti Suzuki will continue to use Toyota-supplied strong hybrid tech for its high-end hybrid models.

Maruti to use series hybrid system on smaller models.
Will have two types of hybrid systems in its portfolio from next year.
An all-new three row SUV based on the Grand Vitara will also get the Toyota supplied strong hybrid setup.

Maruti’s first HEV powertrain will debut on the Z12E engine that powers the Swift. The Z12E unit, combined with the strong hybrid powertrain, will debut on Fronx facelift that's coming next year. Future models, such as the next-gen Baleno, will also benefit from this setup.

The country’s largest automaker will offer a series hybrid setup, which will be significantly cheaper. In this system, which is also called the “range extender”, the petrol powerplant works only as a generator, so instead of directly moving the vehicle, the system produces electricity to power an electric motor that, in turn, drives the wheels.

Simply put, the internal combustion engine works as a generator to keep recharging the EV’s battery pack. Nissan has been using this technology in some of its models, including the Note hatchback, which was also tested extensively in India.

Maruti Suzuki has received a great response for its Grand Vitara hybrid equipped with THS. It also sells the Innova Hycross-based Invicto, which comes with the same petrol-hybrid powertrain that will also power an all-new three-row SUV based on the Grand Vitara.

And once Maruti introduces its in-house HEV powertrain, it will have pure petrol, petrol mild hybrid, petrol strong hybrid (series), petrol strong hybrid (Toyota supplied), petrol-CNG and pure EV powertrain options across its line-up of cars, SUVs and MPVs.

Link:

[purohitanuj]

I hope it comes it comes with substantial battery pack and plug in hybrid. This will allow people like me ( Office and Home are within 5kms ) to charge and go in EV Mode for 90% use case.

[hanzt]

Regarding the "series hybrid" model, I can see two drawbacks:

1. The fuel efficiency will be lower than a parallel strong hybrid since the ICE is going to be running ALL the time in the former.
2. If the battery life wears out or develops issues, you are stuck just like in an EV. But in a parallel hybrid, even if your battery died, your car can still run on the ICE.

So to me it feels like an na-iss-par-na-uss-par solution, like an "endowment plan investment" that neither offers better ₹/km saving nor the piece of mind of a non-EV owner vis-a-vis battery life failure.

Request all the experts here to please share your thoughts on the above.

[theAutomaniac]

Originally Posted by hanzt

1. The fuel efficiency will be lower than a parallel strong hybrid since the ICE is going to be running ALL the time in the former.
2. If the battery' life wears out or develops issues, you are stuck just like in an EV. But in a parallel hybrid, even if ur battery died, your car can still run on the ICE.

1. Approximate FE is expected to be around 35-40KMPL so FE for sure won't be a problem! In fact, this might even become a bestseller solely due to those figures!
2. I agree that a battery failure might cause a problem, but even still, the battery replacement cost will be far lower than that of an EV!

[starke]

Originally Posted by hanzt

Regarding the "series hybrid" model, I can see two drawbacks:
1. The fuel efficiency will be lower than a parallel strong hybrid since the ICE is going to be running ALL the time in the former.
2. If the battery' life wears out or develops issues, you are stuck just like in an EV. But in a parallel hybrid, even if ur battery died, your car can still run on the ICE.

So to me it feels like an na-iss-par-na-uss-par solution, like an "endowment plan investment" that neither offers better ₹/km saving nor the piece of mind of a non-EV owner vis-a-vis battery life failure.

Request all the experts here to plz share your thoughts on the above

Not exactly true,
1. Series hybrid does have slightly lower fuel efficiency, but its not because
of engine running all time which it doesn't (Check Nissan e-Power
technology which uses same series system for a while). Engine turns off
once the battery has enough charge. The efficiency drop is when driving
highway where the engine can be more efficient than motor at
higher/overdrive gear ratio.

2. Yes, but you will face similar issue in Parallel hybrids as most of the car's
auxiliary system, starter/ISGs etc.. are depend on the hybrid battery
power, so you will end up have to change the battery in either case on
series or parallel.

Series hybrid does have a drawback of being slightly less fuel efficient, but overall its much more simple (no transmission) & linear power delivery system.

[purohitanuj]

Originally Posted by hanzt

Regarding the "series hybrid" model, I can see two drawbacks:
1. The fuel efficiency will be lower than a parallel strong hybrid since the ICE is going to be running ALL the time in the former.
2. If the battery' life wears out or develops issues, you are stuck just like in an EV. But in a parallel hybrid, even if ur battery died, your car can still run on the ICE.

So to me it feels like an na-iss-par-na-uss-par solution, like an "endowment plan investment" that neither offers better ₹/km saving nor the piece of mind of a non-EV owner vis-a-vis battery life failure.

Request all the experts here to plz share your thoughts on the above

I beg to differ. A series hybrid have way less parts , like the eCVT module that sits in between a parallel hybrid. Also as both have battery system, so any day a parallel hybrid will have higher probability of failure.
Also as the engine in series hybrid is used as a generator, it always works within its best efficiency zone.
Also, unlike a parallel hybird, a series hybrid always drives like an EV. A parallel hybrid had two driving characters in which one is quick and other is dull.

Hence I would pick up a series hybrid any day over.

[Carma2017]

As per specs of Nissan Note e-power in Japan, which is a Series Hybrid vehicle, the FE quoted is 2.9L/100km, which translates to close to a humongous 35kmpl. I frankly dont expect Suzuki to achieve those figures although both Suzuki and Nissan would be using a 1.2L as the generator. However, Nissan has perfected the technology after lots of efforts and expecting Suzuki to match that on Day-1 is unthinkable. I would be very very surprised if Suzuki is even able to meet the THS Fuel efficiency values of Grand Vitara. This is because the base HR12DE engine used by Nissan offers a FE of 26kmpl in Nissan March whilst Suzuki's Z12 engine itself is not that efficient.

Currently the Nissan Qashqai and X-Trail e-power Hybrids cost close to 4000$ more than the ICE variants, i.e. a difference of appx Rs. 3.5 Lacs. One can expect similar differential with Suzuki as well. Although Nissan expects to achieve price parity with ICE vehicles by 2027, I dont see Suzuki being capable enough to do so at the first go. It will all depend on the Fuel efficiency that Suzuki is able to eke out of the Hybrid set up.