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Old 3rd September 2019, 08:49   #301
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Default Re: Let's know the law (Motor Vehicles Act)

Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh have stated that they are not going to implement the latest MV Act promulgated by Center. They contend that many provisions in the Act need further vetting.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 09:27   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lejhoom View Post
Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh have stated that they are not going to implement the latest MV Act promulgated by Center. They contend that many provisions in the Act need further vetting.
I don't think so any state in Indian Union can say that they will NOT implement a Central Act passed by the Indian Parliament. J&K state had some 'luxuries' like that earlier, but that too has now been removed.

These kind of reports are just for political posturing. What would happen is that such states would use Section 200 MV Act to reduce the fines and enforce the act. The MV Act has a range (min of Rs.500 to max of Rs. 5000) as fine, and states can modify this.

States have no option but to adopt Motor Vehicles Act
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Old 3rd September 2019, 13:17   #303
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Default Re: Let's know the law (Motor Vehicles Act)

Road transport is a State Subject. The states are free to amend the law and review the new penalties imposed.

Most states have the Motor Vehicles Rules that apply to that particular state. However it is much more complex than simply amending the rules at the state legislature level. Question of Repugnancy comes into play.

Article 254 is what relates to this issue for anyone who wishes to read further on the topic.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 16:28   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigron
Road transport is a State Subject. The states are free to amend the law and review the new penalties imposed.
Is it not in the "concurrent list"? Because other wise how can central government pass a law and all states abide by that? It has to be in the central list or in concurrent list, is it not?

Quote:
Most states have the Motor Vehicles Rules that apply to that particular state. However it is much more complex than simply amending the rules at the state legislature level. Question of Repugnancy comes into play.
Yes we have CMVR and the state level MVR also. The good part is that MV Act itself has a section (Sec 200) which empowers states to modify the fines, and designate officials for compounding and collecting fines etc. The state governments can quickly use that. But Sec 200 also lists out lot of sections; and ONLY on those sections can state government make changes.

My understanding is that if a state government brings in a law which infringes on some other central legislation, then President of India's sanction is a must. And when it means President of India, he naturally would get it vetted by the central government. Anti-goonda laws like MCOCA (in Maharashtra) had provisions which was not in sync with Cr.PC and IPC and thus it needed President of India's ascent (which was given).

Article 254 of Indian Constituition
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Old 3rd September 2019, 18:11   #305
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Default Re: Let's know the law (Motor Vehicles Act)

Road transport is in the concurrent list.

The Concurrent List or List-III(Seventh Schedule) is a list of 52 items (though the last item is numbered 47) given in the Seventh Schedule to the Constitution of India. It includes the power to be considered by both the central and state government.

So the Center can make laws on the items mentioned in the Concurrent list and the State can amend them according to their specific requirements or follow what the Center has enacted.

Of course there is more to this complex relationship as we get to know from Constitution law.

Last edited by bigron : 3rd September 2019 at 18:13.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 19:16   #306
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Default Re: Let's know the law (Motor Vehicles Act)

It is beyond doubt that harassment from the traffic police will be a lot more now. If I get stopped by a cop and if I'm not ready to pay spot fine, can the cop confiscate my driving license if:

a) I want to pay the fine online to ensure that it goes where it is supposed to?
b) I want to challenge the ticket in court?

Last edited by theredliner : 3rd September 2019 at 19:30.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 19:56   #307
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Default Re: Let's know the law (Motor Vehicles Act)

Quote:
Originally Posted by theredliner
It is beyond doubt that harassment from the traffic police will be a lot more now.
There could also be a situation where people may also stop paying on the spot fines and insist on sending the case to the court. Because the fines are no small money, and even the bribes (if any demanded) would be not very easy to pay. Rs. 500 & Rs. 100 were all paltry sums which even beggars could pay easily. But Rs. 5000 or Rs 2500 is not easy money.

Quote:
If I get stopped by a cop and if I'm not ready to pay spot fine, can the cop confiscate my driving license if:
a) I want to pay the fine on line to ensure that it goes where it is supposed to?
A cursory reading of Sec 206 of MV Act gives me an understanding that the police officer can seize the license of a driver and send it to the court. But only after issuing a temporary license.
Section 206 (2) reads..
(2) Any police officer or other person authorised in this behalf by the State Government may, if he has reason to believe that the driver of a motor vehicle who is charged with any offence under this Act may abscond or otherwise avoid the service of a summons, seize any licence held by such driver and forward it into the Court taking cognizance of the offence and the said Court shall on the first appearance of such driver before it, return the licence to him in exchange for the temporary acknowledgment given under sub-section (3).

The police-man can say that you may abscond or avoid the serving of summons and in magistrate courts it may be his words against yours.

Quote:
b) I want to challenge the ticket in court?
The same conditions can be applied here as well. The police can seize your license to ensure that you meant business and will land up in the court to challenge the case. But there are also discretionary powers here. Years back, I was caught by a police unit and charged for insurance certificate not in possession. The police SI said that he is not from the traffic wing and is not authorised to collect a spot fine. So I had to go to the court. So for that he issued a Vehicle Check report which was kind of summons asking me to appear in court on a given date. By the said date, the police had also prepared an actual charge sheet (a one page document in legalese Malayalam) explaining the offense in detail, details of witnesses and a copy of the report kept as Yadasthu.
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:14   #308
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Default Re: Let's know the law (Motor Vehicles Act)

Kerala Govt. issues Gazette notification on the fines, after the amendment of MV Act in Yr 2019.
Kerala Govt. Gazette notification
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Old 5th September 2019, 14:10   #309
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Default Re: Let's know the law (Motor Vehicles Act)

In the new MV amendment Act, there are a few "draconian" clauses that are not applicable in probably any western country that have strict rules

88. In section 206 of the principal Act, after sub-section (3), the following sub-section
shall be inserted, namely:—
“(4) A police officer or other person authorised in this behalf by the State
Government shall, if he has reason to believe that the driver of a motor vehicle has
committed an offence under any of sections 183, 184, 185, 189, 190, 194C, 194D, or 194E,
seize the driving licence held by such driver and forward it to the licensing authority
for disqualification or revocation proceedings under section 19:
Provided that the person seizing the licence shall give to the person surrendering
the licence a temporary acknowledgement therefor, but such acknowledgement shall
not authorise the holder to drive until the licence has been returned to him.”
.

Means if you have an offence under any of the sections listed above, you may be grounded immediately as you will not be authorised to drive until the license has been returned to the owner. Since this will be forwarded to the licensing authority, god knows when you will get it back.

Also, after your DL has been seized and sent to the RTO, section 206 will apply, which as per new rules is

In section 19 of the principal Act,—
(i) after sub-section (1), the following sub-section shall be inserted, namely:—
“(1A) Where a licence has been forwarded to the licensing authority under
sub-section (4) of section 206, the licensing authority, if satisfied after giving the
holder of the driving licence an opportunity of being heard, may either discharge
the holder of a driving licence or, it may for detailed reasons recorded in writing,
make an order disqualifying such person from holding or obtaining any licence
to drive all or any class or description of vehicles specified in the licence—
(a) for a first offence, for a period of three months;
(b) for a second or subsequent offence, with revocation of the driving
licence of such person:
Provided that where a driving licence is revoked under this section,
the name of the holder of such driving licence may be placed in the public
domain in such manner as may be prescribed by the Central Government.”
;

So in essence, even if its your first offence, your license can be seized and you will be immediately grounded.
Then when the license is sent to the RTO, they may return it back with no penalties, or suspend it for 3 months for 1st offence and fully cancel it on the 2nd offence.

This is really illogical as nowhere in the world your license is cancelled so quickly. If they need to cancel the license, have a points based system.

Let's see how much the cops will demand for not seizing your license.

Rgds
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Old 5th September 2019, 14:49   #310
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Default Re: Let's know the law (Motor Vehicles Act)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VineetG
In the new MV amendment Act, there are a few "draconian" clauses that are not applicable in probably any western country that have strict rules
With such a strong act, there also has to be directives to ensure that strong technical evidence has to be gathered to prove the offence. One driver against three policemen as witnesses will not work out. Now that being said, the seizing of license seems to be for a bit more serious offences;
Sec 183 - over speeding.
Sec 184 - dangerous driving. The amendment also now clearly lists out the "dangerous moves" which will warrant this section. One of them is usage of hand held communication devices.
Sec 185 - drunken driving
Sec 189 - racing and trials of speed. I for one would like to see this section and the provisions of Sec 206 to be used against the wheelie and racing champs of Bangalore.
Sec 190 - using vehicle in unsafe condition.
Sec 194C - violation of Sec 128 i.e. over-loading of two wheelers.
Sec 194D - violation of Sec 129 i.e. riding without helmets. The state government through their MV rules can give exemptions here.
Sec 194E - not yeilding way for emergency vehicles (or any type of vehicles listed by state governments).

This is purely my personal opinion, but such a drastic punishment is required for Sec 189, Sec 194C and Sec 184. Perhaps this is mainly due to the fact that I regularly see violations of these sections. Sec 183, Sec 184 so-so. Sec 185 any ways is a mandatory court case.

Section 190 and Sec 194E can be misused because there are no clear guidelines on what is "unsafe" and there may be chances that the vehicle cannot yield to an emergency vehicle due to narrow road, too much oncoming traffic etc. etc. In such cases arbitrary seizing of licenses cannot be justified.

And this seizing and sending of licenses to RTO is going to be a bigger problem (and good revenue for the Postal Dept.). Imagine sending a license seized at Bangalore to say some where in Assam or Meghalaya? The seizing authority is to give a receipt after the seisure as well. So onus is on them to ensure that rest of the formalities are also completed. This license seizing and suspending would only be a smooth purpose if all the RTOs across India work as a cohesive/single unit. Chances of that are very less as RTOs are state government managed ones.

Came back to say: I also get a gut feeling that many of the provisions of this Act may get challenged in court. Or there could be umpteen cases filed against Traffic Police or RTOs.

Last edited by sachinpk : 5th September 2019 at 14:52. Reason: came back to say...
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Old 6th September 2019, 09:57   #311
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Default Re: Let's know the law (Motor Vehicles Act)

Some reports on the traffic law enforcement after the MV Amendment Act 2019 became a law.
Odisha auto-rickshaw driver fined Rs 47,500 under new MV act
From the report..
Junior Motor Vehicle Inspector Sandeep Paikray said Kanhar was penalised Rs 10,000 each for violating permit conditions, drunken driving and air and noise pollution, Rs 5,000 each for expired driving license, expired registration certificate and allowing an unauthorised person to drive the vehicle, Rs 2,000 for plying the vehicle without insurance and Rs 500 for general offence.

No helmet, no papers: Biker fined Rs 23,000 after changes in MV Act
From the report..
According to the challan copy accessed by IANS, Madan, a resident of Geeta Colony in east Delhi, was riding without his licence for which he was fined Rs 5,000, an equal amount for not producing his Registration Certificate, Rs 2,000 for not having a third party insurance, Rs 10,000 for violating air pollution standards and another Rs 1,000 for not wearing a helmet.

The media as usual is now show casing these incidents as poor men targetted by a harsh law. But just think about it; how many of us driving a vehicle will have so much irregularities? In the case of the auto rickshaw driver if he had kept all his records upto date his charge would only be for drunken driving. The gentleman from Gurgaon; he could have saved Rs. 5000+Rs.2000+Rs. 10.000 (= Rs. 17,000) if he had kept his records upto date. The only charge would be then on driving without a helmet. Maintaining proper set of vehicle records itself would save lot of money. And looks like there is a huge population who is NOT doing that.
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Old 6th September 2019, 10:40   #312
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Looks like West Bengal govt. is trying to play petty politics here.
West Bengal, MP refuse to implement new Motor Vehicles Act, Rajasthan calls for penalty review
Don't know how to states can refuse to implement a pan-India law.
From MV Act 1988
1. Short title, extent and commencement. –
(1) This Act may be called The Motor Vehicles Act, 1988.
(2) It extends to the whole of India.
(3) It shall come into force on such date* as the Central Government may, by notification in the Official Gazette, appoint, and different dates may be
appointed for different States and any reference in this Act to the commencement of this Act shall, in relation to a State, be construed as a
reference to the coming into force of this Act in that State
.


WB seems to be relying on a fig leaf of an excuse; that is a state notification is required to get the new Act rolled out. The original act had a provision to roll out the act into various states on different dates. WB has already issued the notification and MV Act is applicable now in WB. The amended Act is just an amendment, and not a new act which requires a state notification.

From MV (Amendment) Act, 2019.
(2) It shall come into force on such date as the Central Government may, by notification in the Official Gazette, appoint and different dates may be appointed for different provisions of this Act and any reference in any such provision to the commencement of this Act shall be construed as a reference to the coming into force of that provision.
As per this privision, the Amendment Act is now active all across India.

Steep fines under MV Act meant to dissuade people from breaking law: Gadkari
On reports of some non-BJP-ruled state governments saying they will not implement the amended Motor Vehicles Act, Gadkari said there was nothing of the sort and the subject lies in the concurrent list of the Constitution. He added that the Bill was drafted after extensive discussions with all state governments.
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Old 6th September 2019, 14:19   #313
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Default Re: Let's know the law (Motor Vehicles Act)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VineetG
So in essence, even if its your first offence, your license can be seized and you will be immediately grounded.
Then when the license is sent to the RTO, they may return it back with no penalties, or suspend it for 3 months for 1st offence and fully cancel it on the 2nd offence.
I re-read the entire amendment and sections of MV Act once again. It is Section 183 (over-speeding) which would be a matter of concern for many of the drivers. That is because we constantly cannot monitor our speed and the enforcement of the speed limits is also a bit tricky. Because MVD/RTO/Police generally waits in convenient places to trap the speeders.

Now let us read the amended Sec 183 of MV Act. It reads..

(i) in sub-section (1),—
(a) after the words “Whoever drives”, the words “or causes any person who is employed by him or subjects someone under his control to drive” shall be
inserted;
(b) for the words "with fine which extend to four hundred rupees, or, if having been previously convicted of an offence under this sub-section is again
convicted of an offence under this sub-section, with fine which may extend to one thousand rupees", the following shall be substituted, namely:—
(i) where such motor vehicle is a light motor vehicle with fine which shall not be less than one thousand rupees but may extend to two thousand rupees;
(ii) where such motor vehicle is a medium goods vehicle or a medium passenger vehicle or a heavy goods vehicle or a heavy passenger vehicle with fine which shall not be less than two thousand rupees, but may extend to four thousand rupees; and
(iii) for the second or any subsequent offence under this sub-section the driving licence of such driver shall be impounded as per the provisions of the sub-section (4) of section 206.”


So onus on proving that this is a second offence lies on the RTO, or the Traffic police official. Without a system which keep track of offences on basis of the license number, this may not be an easy thing to do.
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Old 6th September 2019, 17:57   #314
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Default Re: Let's know the law (Motor Vehicles Act)

Slightly OT.

With multiple news items of traffic fines, i checked online if my car has any violation registered against it. There was a traffic light violation registered in June 2019 with time mentioned as 03.19

Since i didn't remember that day, i checked my timeline in google maps and found that i was driving to airport to catch an early morning flight and i did cross that junction.

While i agree the rules/law apply equally at all the time and there are no happy hours, i am left wondering if the light was really red at that time of the night as there is no photo evidence in the notice.

Is any member aware of the working time of traffic lights or are they 24x7? coz most of the lights start blinking yellow by mid night.


Anyways, i paid the fine as it was as per the old rates, but questions in my head keep coming up about how was this violation detected at that time in the night and if the same method is used now then there is huge amount of fines for people to pay without realizing. its a situation where you are waiting at the red light at 3 AM in the morning when there are no other vehicles alone

Last edited by ant_vas : 6th September 2019 at 18:04.
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Old 6th September 2019, 18:18   #315
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Default Re: Let's know the law (Motor Vehicles Act)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant_vas View Post
Is any member aware of the working time of traffic lights or are they 24x7? coz most of the lights start blinking yellow by mid night.
Two years back after returning from a business trip I boarded an AVIS cab from Bengaluru Airport to my residence near HAL. I definitely remember at least 3 active red lights at that hours of night (2:30 am to 3:30 am) and the driver was religiously respecting the signal lights. Due to curiosity I asked him whether he always drives like that. He told me that he got 3 violations booked for jumping signal during late night hours caught by traffic cameras. After that he follows signal lights irrespective of whatever time it is or whether traffic cops are present or not.
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