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Old 28th December 2010, 16:54   #136
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar View Post
build like tank actually adds extra safety to the car compare to the lighter vehicle. If the vehicle is light, you will scare of doing high speed, you wouldn’t get handling at high speed. I do most of the highway driving at 120+ KMPH in my Palio easily, and never felt like doing high speed. I always floor the accelerator full in my Palio 1.2 and many times touch 140 KMPH, without being worried about high speed stability (no rash driving). This is because Palio is 1040 KG heavier and including passenger and luggage it must be above 1200 KG which helps the car stick with the road.
Dear Pawan, Adding weight to the car does not make it more stable, it all depends on the suspension design, tune and a lot other factors.

Note from Moderator: Please use appropriate thread to discuss offtopic technical discussions. Please stick to the topic here. All future OT posts will be removed. Thanks

Last edited by .anshuman : 28th December 2010 at 19:12. Reason: Note added.
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Old 28th December 2010, 17:05   #137
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

Originally Posted by vivekshukla View Post
A lot has been said in the past about bad service quality of Fiat in general and my only question is - do the owners also feel the same? So far, all the owners of Fiats I have met are not disappointed by service, on the contrary they are glad. Service is prompt, follow-ups are routine even after a month (which I never did in 5 years of Maruti and 5 years of Honda ownership, all you get is a feedback form and a call immediately after the service).
+1 to that. I am a happy owner of Punto and have been satisfied with the service received in the last few ASC visits. But still it gives me a fear when I see the declining sales numbers and makes me worry about the re-sale value and the future of my car. Now that FIAT has improved on the Sales and service front, it needs to give confidence to people that it will not close it shops again in India. For that nothing else will work other than dedicated sales/service network. TATA also should not have any problems when FIAT attempts this as it is anyway going to give profits to the JV which comes to TATA also. Atleast in major cities, FIAT should have a dedicated sales/service centre. This is just to give customer a confidence that one fine day I wont stop the JV with TATA and wash my hands off.
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Old 28th December 2010, 19:35   #138
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

Originally Posted by arjab View Post

...The focus of the ad series should be on SERVICE, SERVICE and only SERVICE.

Of course, before this the spare parts pipleline at the dealer end has to be full.
+2 to that.

The europeans should know by now, that in this country many people are still "wired" to think of a car as a biggest purchase of their life (after a house).
Therefore easy availability of spares and a large variety of service options are key if the company is interested to become a household name.

For all its shortcomings, Maruti has shown the way - extensive dealer network, developed a very strong oem base in the country. Two ways in which this helped customers
a) many manufacturers sprang up to compete with oem co.s - therefore giving the customer a choice of spares to buy.
b) many service stations (big and small) opened up to cater to service and repair demands of the customers.
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Old 28th December 2010, 20:02   #139
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

My colleague registered to test drive a Linea T-Jet and for the last two weeks hes been getting calls from different showrooms regarding the same.

The executive of each showroom call and tell him they will provide a test drive, take down his address and then dont show up.

The only silver lining is that, the people from the Fiat call center check with him regularly to see whether he got his test drive.
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Old 28th December 2010, 20:32   #140
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

^^ If he buys the car the process will continue. After every visit to service center, he will get a call from Fiat to ask for feedback and complaints. God forbid if he has some issue with his car and he mentions the same in the feedback, both Fiat and Local Dealership will let loose their newly hired semi-educated telemarketing executive on the poor chap. They will call you every day and will feel sorry for not yet resolved issue but will do nothing about it.

Later the local dealer might like to mint your new found relationship by sending you SMS'es for best offers on everything from Nano to Grande at a time.

Everytime it was me who took our Punto to ASCs for maintenance. This time my Dad took the car for service and now his number is registered now with them. He is now getting all the marketing SMS'es and feedback calls. I keep blacklisting their numbers on my phone but i have no way to blacklist those SMS'es which do not have numbers associated to them.

Please Fiat i do not want to know- How good Fiat is at customer care? and I don't care which position were you ranked in a survey. All i need is a good Service with a Supply of required spares. You charge a lot for the service, still i do not get quality service + to annoy me more your mechanics are ignorant enough to forget to clamp a diesel pipe during service leaving my car stranded on a deserted highway.

Do i still recommend a Punto to my friends? Yes, but with a strong disclaimer on Fiat Service, Spares supply and dipping sales.
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Old 28th December 2010, 23:05   #141
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

Here I would like to give example of my friend who is currently studying with me. They bought Palio back when it was launched. One of the first Palio in Vadodara city.

Things he claimed :

1) The fiat person who was making delivery of cars was corrupt and many others were given car late.

2) Currently its very difficult to source parts of Palio. The dealer he is visiting is Twin Wheels, Vadodara. My friend told me that for any part they try to ask for, the dealer would offer Indica parts. Yes, I know IDEA designed both Palio and Indica, but they are not twins like earlier generation Wagon R and Estilo. Both are based on different platforms and only profiles look the same.

Recently during moonsons, my friend lost front left wheel cover. Twin wheels is trying to sell him Indica wheel rim cover.
For ORVM, again the dealer would say " Palio ka part nahi hai, Indica ka part dal du ? ".
Non availablility of parts coupled with not a good service is what is making him unhappy.

In a recent service, the bill was running in a couple of thousands, but his problems were not solved.

Note that another TBHP user in Vadodara who owns white Linea also faced a problem with Twin wheels when he had some issue with AC mostly. There is a separate thread of his for his car where he had stated this.

My friend currently is ready to even buy Linea as all in their family like the car, but they are not sure about service. His father is ready to buy Honda City, but is not considering Linea as seriously.

Why I posted this ? Simple reason to indicate that the penetration of Fiat is lacking in smaller cities and that practically, the After Sales and Service is still a loop hole Fiat is facing.

Fantastic products in their own right, they really excel well in atleast one are ( ride and handling, simply fantastic ) but unfortunately dealer network is still a problem.

3) My maternal uncle lives in a village as they have farming as their bread and butter source. They have 800, Esteem and Palio 1.9D and a couple of tractors.

They have the same story to tell. Palio is a nice car but servicing is a problem. Now, Maruti, Hyundai and Tata small cars are not facing this problem and see the result in sales.

My personal take is that older model like Palio must be offered with company fitted LPG and CNG options. Very serious considerations be made for broader service network with easy availability of parts.
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Old 29th December 2010, 14:29   #142
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

There's a lot to do with how dealers are recruited by auto companies. When Indica was launched, Concorde was a Tata owned company and only they sold the cars. But as sales volumes increased, Concorde Motors were not able to handle and Tata had to appoint other dealers. Those days, all big dealerships and people with access to funds (setting up a dealership is an expensive affair) were already busy with Daewoo, Honda, coming up Hyundai, and not to forget Maruti and were doing brisk business.

When it came to appointing dealers for Tata Cars and Ford (circa 1995) with Mahindra, they didn't have any experience in handling sophisticated customers as they were earlier selling LCVs and many of those dealers got converted to passenger cars. Ford Escort was a great car but failed because of dealer apathy and unavailability of parts. Imagine a dealer doing brisk business selling Mahindra Aramada and Tata LCVs, all of a sudden faced with a passenger car with low margins requiring and all new setup for service.

Indica was a success and Tata's continuously kept improving the quality of the car but they were not able to change the mind sets of those dealers who were just good for selling commercial vehicles. Even when it came to new dealerships, Tata's kept appointing dealers with background in commercial vehicles. In Lucknow, where I come from, even there's a dealership with a name of Commerical Motors, no points for guessing what brand of cars they sell! Their background - trucks, LCVs. Coming to Bangalore - our own KHT Motors were sellers of Swaraj Mazda brand of LCVs not so long ago.

The point I am trying to make here is that a dealer who's used to (and successful too) dealing with a different genre of people, also hires the same set of people and that's how a bad dealership originates. Not many people will move from Honda or VW or BMWs of the world to Tatas and try to bring in change and for that matter Fiat, since Fiat is associated with Tatas now; for good or bad. If the leadership at a dealership is not customer centric they will always try and under stock spares and force the culture down to the junior most staff. Why do dealers under stock spares? Because they have to purchase it upfront without any credit from TML or FIAPL. It's not in their DNA because they even today think that customer who has bought a truck (despite buying a Fiat Punto/Linea) will go to roadside builder and get it serviced there.

One thing I am never able to understand why do dealers do this? After all, they make more money from service and spares sales during the life of a car as compared to the car sale!

Fiat has an opportunity so does Tata - to revamp the setups, start communicating aggressively to prospective customers that they are focused in doing so. Not just by modifying the T-jet ad after bad feedback.
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Old 29th December 2010, 14:43   #143
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

TATA was not able to push its own NANO for November. How much more can they do for FIAT?
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Old 30th December 2010, 14:33   #144
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Default A FIAT to FIAT

I have a unique experience to relate as i am in betwixt my car selection and buying period.
I have now decided to buy the Tjet. Tbhp opinions and the test ride got me convinced that this the car for me. But there are these interactions or the lack of them that i have with the sole dealer in a city of Pune's size.
I wanted to buy it in Dec expecting decent discounts, but except on Tjet there are heavy discounts on every other model. They say they have sold a lot o Tjets, but have seen only one till date. And therefore they dont feel the need to give a discount. And neither have they ever called me back since the TD. I am the only one calling them... feel like a stalker!
At same time i TDed the ANHC, nice neutral experience. But the dealer was a revelation after Fiat. Inspite of selling more ANHCs than all the contemporaries put together, these guys averaged 2 calls per day and a TD whenever and however longer i wanted it. And they offered a cash discount every day! They then threw in the Reverse sensors and blue tooth. All in all the top end ANHC was costing lower on road that Tjet. These rates were applicable till the 25th and on 25th he even talked about a discount on the spoilers and skirts package. No wonder these are some of the highest sellers. It is reassuring to know a dealers interest in the customer. And with the HONDA tag i almost booked the car. The brochure is an amazing 8 page book, Fiat has an A4 leaflet and a barely legible Pcopied rate sheet,.
ANHC rate sheet on the reverse even lists out the advantages over the competition.

Had a very similiar pleasant experience with Maruti for the SX4. Really customer oriented salesmen. Mind blowing deals and discounts! Bad car; but feels nice and you understand why they are no.1. When a customer feels confident he/she buys into the company more than the product.

Went to Skoda, boy what attitude! They think they are selling the Rolls and we minions dont deserve a Skoda. Gave them a earful about Skoda service legends, etc and asked the SM to visit Tbhp.com. Anyhow Skoda has nothing for me to buy.

Had been to Ford a long time back for the 1.6S, got a TD on the dealer's own car. This car is a heartbreaker, but Ford is more interested in plugging the FIGO. Dunno why, but every week they call me to take a TD of the Figo. Now i pester them back about the new Fiesta's launch date (MArch end dealers have been shown the sedan).

Finally last week i went back to Fiat Tata to get a face to face with anybody senior and ask for a discount... and nada! no discounts but got some free mats, mud flaps etc. Raised a stink and they gave me a corporate disc of 10K... but boss i run my own business and "me no speak corporato"! So zilch. No discount, please agay jao agay jao.

Then some other senior came and told me the real reason. He said Marketing is handled by TATA and they are not really helping Fiat. They really inflexible.
And also the afterSS is something I am scared abt with this kinda attitudes.
After the Tjet td i am simply finding it impossible to impressed by any other car. And now am in catch22 - great car, single haughty dealer, suspect service and grim reaper TATA's shadow over Fiat.

So anyways now I am waiting till Jan or whenever since there are no discounts for Dec. Maybe we will get more ownership reviews on the forums.

But hey! one good lesson while getting out to look for a deal... be persistent and shameless and they really dole out discounts. Unless its the stupid Eye-talians or Germans.
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Old 30th December 2010, 23:00   #145
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

Many people totally agree with @jazzrockz
My cousin was also in the look out for a car. After TD all the cars in the 7-12 Lakh range, he also decided to buy Linea TJet and booked in December first week, with an expected delivery before Xmas. The vehicle has not delivered till now, and latest date given is January middle.
If you ask any one who compared the vehicles in the price range will come to the conclusion Linea is the current best available, but does not end up buying it. Now TM/Fiat go figure out, is it hard Fiat?
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Old 1st January 2011, 13:50   #146
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

Tata Fiat December Sales

Fiat has sold only 271 cars in December 2010. If they don't wake up now, its over for sure.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 08:27   #147
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
Tata Fiat December Sales

Fiat has sold only 271 cars in December 2010. If they don't wake up now, its over for sure.
271 Cars only ??? what is going on FIAT. This is lowest in 2 years after their comeback with Grande Punto & Linea.

I was seriously considering the Linea MJD E+ for myself. But these figures are forcing me to have a re-look at my decision.

Are these low figures due to some Plant Shutdown for maitenance ? couldnt believe such wonderful Products (Grande Punto & Linea) slowly going down the drain. Wake up FIAT..!!

Last edited by sharma_sanjeevi : 2nd January 2011 at 08:28.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 08:41   #148
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

271 FIATs in December is the offtake from factory to dealers. We all know that Fiat does not want to increase its inventory at the end of the year which will have to be sold at discounts later on and so they deliberately reduced the numbers shipped. So these figures are nothing to worry about.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 09:04   #149
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

Originally Posted by TAIF View Post
271 FIATs in December is the offtake from factory to dealers. We all know that Fiat does not want to increase its inventory at the end of the year which will have to be sold at discounts later on and so they deliberately reduced the numbers shipped. So these figures are nothing to worry about.
I tend to agree with your logic. If the 2010 inventory is there with FIAT, then they would have to give Huge discounts to clear it off.

Hope its True
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Old 2nd January 2011, 09:05   #150
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Default Re: Tata power fails to push Fiat sales

TAIF's post above makes sense but still the number is too low.

When Linea was launched, I wanted to buy it to replace my Matiz. When I took the TD, the best thing which I liked ride and handling which was the best in that segment. But I was deeply disappointed by the lousy ergonomics for the driver (long throw gear lever, deep clutch, oddly placed pedals etc.) The interior quality was very shabby, rear seat was cramped with poor leg room and engine was weak for that car. so their was no feel good factor about the car and our enthusiasm to buy Linea evaporated immediately. The same must be the experience of many other customers who wanted to buy but came back disappointed.

all these factors can be easily rectified by FIAT. They have already given the more powerful engine but interior and ergonomics remain poor which matters most for making the first time positive impression for the owner driver and the family. so it is only the FIAT which is to blame for making it a poor product. FIGO took the market by storm despite poor service image of Ford dealers. Skoda still sells despite the horror stories. all because they come across as sensible and well made products.

Last edited by akj53 : 2nd January 2011 at 09:12.
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