[StarScream]

Originally Posted by BUSA

Can you elaborate on the bold part?

Busa, I meant unveiled / shown / announced today but is expected to hit the market in 18 months...

[StarScream]

I got a test drive in the new Mahindra Scorpio Hybrid AT. They have one outside the Mahindra Pavilion at the Auto Expo. I didn't drive it but was driven in it.

First things first, this is not really a true hybrid like a Prius or Civic Hybrid. It does have an electric motor but from what I could gather it doesnt power the car by itself at any stage - the diesel engine doesn't switch off. The electric motor, which produces just 25 bhp or so supplements the 2.2 liter diesel (same as in the Hawk). This is unlike the Prius where the electric motor drives the car at slow speeds and the petrol is switched off when the car is a at a stop.

The Mahindra folks called the Prius technology, parallel sequential, while the Hybrid Scorpio is parallel only (apparently).

The dash had this nice big Delphi display that showed you where the power was coming from and in what proportion the diesel and electric motor were being used.

The car had an automatic six-speed gear box. On the side was a switch that said "W/T". The Mahindra fellow said it was for different weather conditions: winter and something else (I forget). Obviously this is for overseas markets.

The ride was good and the engine sound was low. Although I figured out the diesel wasn't switching off at idle because I could hear the diesel rumble. It drove very smoothly but that's because the AT box probably didn't change gears during the short, slow ride I had in it.

[burnt.]

Originally Posted by StarScream

First things first, this is not really a true hybrid like a Prius or Civic Hybrid. It does have an electric motor but from what I could gather it doesnt power the car by itself at any stage - the diesel engine doesn't switch off. The electric motor, which produces just 25 bhp or so supplements the 2.2 liter diesel (same as in the Hawk). This is unlike the Prius where the electric motor drives the car at slow speeds and the petrol is switched off when the car is a at a stop.

The dash had this nice big Delphi display that showed you where the power was coming from and in what proportion the diesel and electric motor were being used.

Well hats off to M&M for coming up with a hybrid. Even if it's not as advanced as a Toyota right now, it is a beginning and definitely a step in the right direction.


What kind of proportions did you see in the display? Was the electric motor contributing more as the speed picked up?

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by burnt.

Well hats off to M&M for coming up with a hybrid. Even if it's not as advanced as a Toyota right now, it is a beginning and definitely a step in the right direction.


What kind of proportions did you see in the display? Was the electric motor contributing more as the speed picked up?

Hi Burnt, at the speed we were traveling the diesel motor was contributing less than the electric motor. When the driver tapped the accelerator while the car was in P (park), the engine revved and the display showed the diesel engine power surging.

Oh and by the way, I forgot to mention, Mahindra folks told me they plan to launch the regular Hawk with the 6-speed At box soon.

[ramkya1]

If you do a research on the hybrids available abroad, suv's / trucks, they have a huge weight to power ratio issue. Scorpio has a serious problem with 2400 kms, they need to trim that fast and have to juggle with the extra battery weight if they are into serious hybrid territory.

With technology and carbon fibre to reduce weight, like what they have done abroad, this could be possible. Then price would be another problem, technology being costly at low numbers.....

Whatever, hats off to M&M for breaking a path.......

--Ramky

[StarScream]

Ramkya1, although I was disappointed that it was not a true hybrid the way we understand it from the Prius, I was impressed with what M&M has achieved and how far they have come.

[rajtheindian]

I heard that M&M is targetting US markets, Cruise control in new Scoprio 2.2, hybrid and auto tranmission....
Looks like they are targeting US market.

[TeddyBear]

Why can't we use abundant Solar energy in the Hybrids as 3rd option along with fossil and Electric. Though it will take time to charge, Let it charge when the car is parked and on the move. Most of the places in India it is sunny 90% of the year. The roof will be fitted with array of Panels.

Once Government makes it mandatory for City buses, More manufacturers will jump on it and like mobile phone, the Solar panel and Battery peformance increases and price decreases due to volume and competition.

And Another Idea probably Tata can Patent that and implement in their Air-Car. Solar thermal or electric pump that can compress Air for their car when it is parked and on the move cheers:

[burnt.]

Originally Posted by TeddyBear

Why can't we use abundant Solar energy in the Hybrids as 3rd option along with fossil and Electric. Though it will take time to charge, Let it charge when the car is parked and on the move. Most of the places in India it is sunny 90% of the year. The roof will be fitted with array of Panels.

A car fitted with a solar panel will not only be terribly ugly but uneconomical as well. Besides, such a small solar panel will not produce sufficient power to drive a car.

[shatrughna]

Does anyone here have any idea as to when Scorpio AT is likely to get launched? At driveinside.com , I read that they expect to be launched by April 08. I desperately need a SUV size vehicle preferred with auto tranny and cant afford a petrol driven one( CRV/ Vitara) and Scorpio AT is only hope as there is no news of Captiva or Outlander coming here any soon in AT trim.

[Screwdriva]

Originally Posted by TeddyBear

Why can't we use abundant Solar energy in the Hybrids as 3rd option along with fossil and Electric. Though it will take time to charge, Let it charge when the car is parked and on the move. Most of the places in India it is sunny 90% of the year. The roof will be fitted with array of Panels.

I wouldn't be so quick to rule this out. If you look at cars like the Aptera, a California EV startup, you'll see that they include the Solar panel as standard. Other manufacturers are investigating this option as a way to supplement regenerative braking, with the aim of minimizing drag load by the powered accessories (alternator, power steering etc.) AS WELL AS cabin climate control when parked.

While it may take another 5 years to reach market, I anticipate Solar "lining" will make it's way to sunbelt sold electric cars at some stage, depending on photovoltaic pricing/ demand and initiatives by car companies.

[sujaylahiri]

A bit off topic, but check out the SAE Supermileage competition.

SAE Supermileage Competition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They get some amazingly high mpg numbers from these "vehicles".

Our University was in the top 5 in 2006.

[shatrughna]

Originally Posted by sujaylahiri

A bit off topic, but check out the SAE Supermileage competition.

SAE Supermileage Competition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They get some amazingly high mpg numbers from these "vehicles".

Our University was in the top 5 in 2006.

Thats interesting but must be as boring as the Fiesta drive from Bangalore concluded last month that shattered its own record of around 33 kmpl( diesel). Still that is more earthly , practical and useful information. The astronomical FE achieved in SAE supermileage give us hoe that someday we will have cars with much better FE than today.

As of now, my question and curiousity still remains - when is scorpio AT getting launched. Well I am still undecided on my family car/ SUV - a 7 seater with AT and 4*4 option like Safari. Captiva is still not available in AT, outlander is still far off and not sure if it will be a seven seater and in any case I doubt it will have a diesel option at all.

All hopes pinned on Scorpio ( expected VFM ) else may be Captiva may be the only choice.(too pricey and no dealer in my area)

[StarScream]

Mahindra micro hybrid coming before monsoon 2008:

Mahindra showcases Hybrid Diesel SUV Technology at SAE Detroit 2008

April 14, 2008, Detroit: Mahindra & Mahindra, one of India’s leading automotive majors, showcased the Scorpio Hybrid Diesel SUV at SAE Detroit 2008. Mahindra’s Sustainable Mobility Solutions illustrate M&M’s commitment to the research, product development and advancement of the most cutting-edge technologies to bring about a cleaner and greener future.

Pollution related health concerns, global warming, climate change and energy security concerns related to the depletion and distribution of non-renewable conventional fuel options have pushed alternate energy and propulsion technologies to the forefront of national agendas. Mahindra has worked sustainable solutions into its long term product plan. These solutions reduce pollution and can be found from renewable sources; this is the future of transportation.

“Our eco-friendly vehicles are proof of our commitment to a cleaner environment, fuel efficiency, and emphasis on customer satisfaction. Mahindra’s range of driveable diesel Hybrid SUVs are well suited for the dense traffic conditions and driving habits of our customers,” emphasized Mr. Anand Mahindra, Vice Chairman & Managing Director, Mahindra Group.
Dr. Pawan Goenka, President, Automotive Sector, Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd., commented that, “The Hybrids will be first introduced in the Indian market and later in other markets depending on customer demand. Hybrid vehicles are our near-term solution to reducing pollution and fuel consumption. We have already integrated these technologies into our research, development, and commercialization plans to mitigate GHG and CO2 challenges”.

“Advancing the latest high-tech, cutting-edge technologies in the world and combining this with India’s engineering know-how, agility and low-cost manufacturing capabilities, we are positioned to be the alternate powertrain and sustainable mobility solutions leader for the mass markets not only in India, but the world,” commented Dr. Arun Jaura, Group Chief Technology Officer of M&M.

Mahindra’s Sustainable Mobility Solutions Program

Utilizing domestic and international strategic partnerships, Mahindra’s 1200 strong R&D team works to bring the most advanced and futuristic technologies to India. Covering a wide range of advanced powertrain solutions, Mahindra is working on different platforms of driveable full hybrid vehicles, micro (start/stop) hybrid vehicles, bio-fuel vehicles, an electric passenger vehicle, a hydrogen combustion engine vehicle and many recyclable materials and reusable technologies.

M&M’s hybrid vehicles combine the best features of internal combustion engine and electric vehicle technologies to bring forth vehicles with incredible fuel economies with no sacrifice in performance. Advanced vehicle controller technology in both the parallel and micro hybrid options are set to give the Indian driver the best drive using minimal fuel, which results in less cost to the consumer.

A fleet of full, parallel hybrid vehicles are being tested and the micro hybrid will be launched before the monsoon of 2008. The full parallel Hybrids have been developed in partnership with FEV and other subsystem suppliers. “FEV has been a very receptive and experienced partner in the programme and is known for their HEV work across the globe”, said Dr. Jaura.

As a part of the Sustainable Mobility Solutions Program, M&M has been successful in developing the hydrogen-powered Alfa 3-wheeler cargo vehicle. The first of its kind in the world, the Hy-Alfa runs on compressed hydrogen gas and is incredibly engineered to run with near zero emissions, which makes it a pleasure to drive and ride for everyone on crowded city roads. Mahindra’s everyday endeavour is to smartly steer its products and future developments in the near short-term and long-term towards sustainability, focusing on end-of-life and optimizing product life cycles.

[kthacker]

Many of you might not believe looking at the pics, but here are pics of a micro hybrid testing. I was driving past Bandra when this old dusty Scorpio pulled up next to me at the signal. The car came to a halt and the engine stopped, a few seconds later it cranked up and moved forward. Once again, a few seconds later it stopped and the engine stopped as well, then it struck me that it might be a hybrid. So i asked the driver if it started and stopped on its own, and he said yes, then i asked if it was an automatic and he again said yes again, but before i could ask to take a look and take pics... green lights, the car started on its own (as both his hands on the steering) and he was off. Wonder if the 2.5 badging means it is the bolero engine that they are trying it on. Anyone have any concrete news? Anyway here are a few pics..