[Sowmya]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

I am still wondering on how they would manage to categorize an offence as a "repeat"? I agree that many have smart card licenses that can store information but I haven't come across any traffic policemen that carry readers for smart card information.

In Bangalore, there is website for where you can see if your vehicle has been booked for any offence or not. When you give the vehicle reg no, we will be able to find the chalan in your name. So I believe that they are maintaining some kind of databases for this fines and chalan

Addition to that I also wish heavy fine on the below violator.
Smoking in the Car. Throwing the ash to neighbouring vehicle.
Vehicle w/o proper headlight and stop light, specially the tractor and heavy vehicle.

[simplyself]

Originally Posted by Sowmya

In Bangalore, there is website for where you can see if your vehicle has been booked for any offence or not. When you give the vehicle reg no, we will be able to find the chalan in your name. So I believe that they are maintaining some kind of databases for this fines and chalan

Addition to that I also wish heavy fine on the below violator.
Smoking in the Car. Throwing the ash to neighbouring vehicle.
Vehicle w/o proper headlight and stop light, specially the tractor and heavy vehicle.

Hyderabad Traffic police use a handheld device. One can check whether the vehicle is penalized.

Smoking in car shouldnt be included in the list of offences; Throwing the ash out should be.

As the tail lights of many of the older vehicles do not function, a reflective sticker should be made mandatory. AP Transport Dept makes it mandatory for all the commercial vehicles and a new one is stuck at the time of fitness. These reflective strips are have excellent illumination.

[Joy]

Originally Posted by Visaster

...
Cops have to be answerable to the law too and the people should also be given a way to deal with the crooked cops so that they do their job.
I have been a victim many a times when I question the cops on rules they answer back saying I have no reason to answer you and he starts using all the loopholes in the system to book your vehicle in.
...

AFAIK, it's just because we don't drag them to court. A cop may try to frighten you with all the clauses but they also know it's very difficult to prove it in Court if one pursues. If more and more people stand by their rights and challenges them, they will slowly withdraw from such cases. Indian Legal System is based on evidence and it is very difficult to prove unless they have proper video surveillance and eye-witnesses (if I am not wrong).

So, raising the fines also means more and more people challenging the challans than submitting to their whims. I know people would not bother paying a fine of Rs. 100-500 (even I am one), but I hope when it becomes Rs. 500-2500 (five fold rise), people will try and drag them to court for illegal bookings. And if the police fails repeatedly to prove this frivolous charges, then I believe that our Honourable Court will definitely look into this matter and they will think twice to book anyone illegally.

Let's hope for the best.

[prateekm]

Just curious, say I break a rule now (for example, skipping a signal) and pay the fine. After 2-3 years, I'm caught for the same reason again, so will that be considered as the second offence even though there was a long time gap between the 2 incidents?

[motorguy]

The key is enforcement. Our enforcement is so bad that there is just no point just amending the act. Police dont arrest habitual offenders and are bribed left and right. Some of the offences are downright scary and its really a shame the way many Indians drive (recall the interview with Oprah when she was in India, when she asked a person why he was cutting the red light, and he is said following the red traffice light is optional !!!!). Also on many of our expressways and highways routinely people come in the next lane (but in the opposite direction). Recently I was almost hit (and it would have been very serious and I missed it by a millimiter!) with a white Zen coming in the inner lane against me - this was on the NH47 coming back from Coimbatore. There are no camera, registration addresses are wrong, police are corrupt and harrassment is rampant - this is what should be corrected IN addition to modifying the Motor Vehicles Act.

[Irwin]

It is not a panacea for all the traffic problems in INDIA, however It is a long awaited overdue step in the right direction. I am of an opinion that these fines or penalties should have been more steep (minimum 2000 Rupees) to a point it should really hurt anyone who intends to break the law. Talking about the traffic constable or someone accepting a bribe to let one go. For everyone who takes a bribe there is someone who is giving a bribe. Nobody will take if no one is giving. The higher the penalty/fine for a violation, the bribe amount too will be proportionally higher. Hence it will be a deterrent by itself. Personally I would not be inclined to break any traffic rules and pay a fine of 2000 to 5000 Rs or even pay a havaldar 500 rupees or more as bribes. I dont think a havaldar will be that stupid to accept and let one go with 100 Rs bribe, when he knows the fine is between 2000 - 5000 Rupees. The bottom line is, If one is brave or stupid enough to break the rules, be prepared to PAY or face the consequences.

One does not have to see for oneself, the flagrant violation of traffic rules and the driving etiquette of us Indians to believe the way we Indians drive and follow the traffic rules. To put it very mildly, it is atrocious. No one should fear these laws, fines etc, if one is law abiding and does not intend to break any traffic rules and laws. Stick by the traffic rules and no one will bother you. I am 52 years old and have been driving in Mumbai since 1982, and have never been involved, harassed or penalized for any traffic violation. If at all I have more problems from the fellow road users, who honk/prompt/remind/intimidate me from behind to break the traffic signal even when the traffic light is still red.

I dont think anyone of us would drive or behave the way we do in INDIA, should we be driving in any another foreign country.

[fast&furious]

I think everyone has the freedom to express his/her views. So here are my views and worries about the revised punishments:

First update the rules and then update the punishments! How can you think about punishing someone without having a good set of rules?!

Yes, a greater punishment for those who drink and drive, use mobile phones (in whatever manner) while driving are welcome. But there are some points that doesn't sound too good. One has to switch off his/her mobile phone while driving?! I think 99% of the people will break that rule. And I think it should be considered as an offense only if the vehicle is moving. What's wrong in using a device while the vehicle is stationery? Somebody please clear this doubt of mine.

70 kmph speed limit across the country? I guess that itself is the reason why many people drive at extremely high speeds here because on good highways, everyone will be doing more than 70kmph. So if the law is applied, everyone will be caught. It doesn't make a difference if one guy is doing 96 and the other guy is doing 150. But that's not the case if they raise the speed limit to 110 or 120. They may use speed cams on the highways to catch the offenders and rash drivers too. I was fined a few months back for driving @ 74kmph on a deserted road. A few moments before that, a Maruti 800 overtook my car. It was definitely going @ more than 90. But he slowed down when he saw the police(he was not fined) and I didn't because I thought I'm was doing OK. How can someone justify that? You slow down when you the highway police and after that you drive as you wish?

Rash driving is an issue in India as it is across the world. Many people talk as if rash driving occurs only in India. That's not true. But it's an issue nonetheless. And it's very important that such guys should be severely punished. I was involved in an accident a few months back and the cause of the accident was found to be rash driving by the other guy. I was told that a case will be filed against him for rash driving. But I don't think anything has happened yet. Implementation of laws is a big issue.

And the police-civilian relationship is much worse in small cities/towns when compared to the metros. I'm worried that they will misuse the rules to milk the people here. So a comparison with other developed countries doesn't make any sense at all.

This is not 1982 or 1992 or 2002. This is 2012. There is a huge difference in the infrastructure, cars and of course the mentality of the drivers. I welcome this move since the intention is to reduce the number of road accidents. But I'm afraid, many innocent people might get caught in this.

Of course it's great if these rules are applied within city limits. Driving will be more disciplined within the city limits but will it bring much of a difference outside the city limits where most of the horrible accidents occur? I have my doubts and worries about that.

[faustus77]

Hi everybody
Hike in the amount is a welcome and a delayed move.
A bribe will be in proportion so if I have to pay a bribe of say 250 for breaking a signal would I do it :no way.
Overtaking from the left will it be considered dangerous driving or rash/negligent?
All of us have experienced getting stuck behind slow moving vehicles.Other than overtaking from the left do we have a choice?
On every highway in India you will have trucks going at sub20KMPH and hogging the right lane.What do you do?No amount of honking/flashing of headlamps will make him give way.Personally for me this is a more worrying matter as I can avoid jumping signals or driving the wrong way etc but no way will I be able to avoid that.
Regards

[Irwin]

Originally Posted by faustus77

Hi everybody
Hike in the amount is a welcome and a delayed move.
A bribe will be in proportion so if I have to pay a bribe of say 250 for breaking a signal would I do it :no way.
Overtaking from the left will it be considered dangerous driving or rash/negligent?
All of us have experienced getting stuck behind slow moving vehicles.Other than overtaking from the left do we have a choice?
On every highway in India you will have trucks going at sub20KMPH and hogging the right lane.What do you do?No amount of honking/flashing of headlamps will make him give way.Personally for me this is a more worrying matter as I can avoid jumping signals or driving the wrong way etc but no way will I be able to avoid that.
Regards

I dont think overtaking from left is and should be an offense. Anywhere on a road where there are two lanes, the lane on the left is the normal driving lane, and the lane on your right is the one to overtake and once you overtake, then one has to come back to the left lane. Common sense dictates that one should follow this lane discipline. Assuming someone is crawling in the right lane speed limit 20-30 kmph, one can continue driving in the left lane at a speed lower than the specified speed limit, which by default will take you ahead of the guy who is crawling in the speed overtaking lane. However a word of caution, never overtake from the left when a vehicle is stationary on the road, unless you can see the road ahead clearly to see if someone is crossing the road from front of the vehicle.

[Visaster]

Originally Posted by Joy

AFAIK, i. If more and more people stand by their rights and challenges them, they will slowly withdraw from such cases. I believe that our Honourable Court will definitely look into this matter and they will think twice to book anyone illegally.

Let's hope for the best.

Who has such kind of time at hand to run around to get things done in our ridiculous system
In a regular government office if they have to do something against their will it will minimum of 2 day for your paper to move from one table to other

Originally Posted by Irwin

I am of an opinion that these fines or penalties should have been more steep (minimum 2000 Rupees) to a point it should really hurt anyone who intends to break the law. Personally I would not be inclined to break any traffic rules and pay a fine of 2000 to 5000 Rs or even pay a havaldar 500 rupees or more as bribes.

I am 52 years old and have been driving in Mumbai since 1982, and have never been involved, harassed or penalized for any traffic violation

You want more fines and think that's going to change everything and everyone on the road. You are truely mistaken.
You have never been caught by the cop, so you really don't have an experience with the actual routine when a cop catches you. They usual start accusing you of all possible things.
Nothing is as direct as caught for an offense. offense explained, ticket issued and you go to court and pay
It is always the long conversations of unwanted details between cop and the offender, the cop tries to get away with some quick money and the offender tries to cheat the system.
If the cop is crooked he can do as much as impounding your vehicle on a false case.

Originally Posted by Irwin

Anywhere on a road where there are two lanes, the lane on the left is the normal driving lane, and the lane on your right is the one to overtake and once you overtake, then one has to come back to the left lane.

Which country are you driving in, INDIA? Happy you have such roads and you are able to do what you say. Where I drive if its 2 lane, people drive as four and constantly changing track, like everyone is on the impression the lane you are not in always moves faster

[prateekm]

Originally Posted by Visaster

Which country are you driving in, INDIA? Happy you have such roads and you are able to do what you say. Where I drive if its 2 lane, people drive as four and constantly changing track, like everyone is on the impression the lane you are not in always moves faster

Don't have much idea about other cities, but lane discipline is generally followed in Mumbai, and people use lane indicators on the eastern/western express highways (not all, but most do) I had a bad experience in Bangalore though, where people with pick-ups and trucks drive in the right lane at very slow speeds.

[Visaster]

Originally Posted by simplyself

Smoking in car shouldnt be included in the list of offences; Throwing the ash out should be.

No ways you should be allowed to smoke while you drive, its equally distracting as speaking over phone and it a nuisance.
Throwing not only ash, anything.
But who is going to monitor that?

Originally Posted by prateekm

Don't have much idea about other cities,.

As I said good for you. Happy people are under control.
I am in Chennai and Bangalore.
I give up trying to teach people some lane sense.

[Irwin]

Originally Posted by Visaster

Which country are you driving in, INDIA? Happy you have such roads and you are able to do what you say. Where I drive if its 2 lane, people drive as four and constantly changing track, like everyone is on the impression the lane you are not in always moves faster

I mostly drive in Bombay and since recently in GOA as well, where the lane discipline is more or less followed by most of the people, If one is hogging the speed lane, just honk once and most of the time, the people move away. I have never driven a vehicle in any other part of INDIA, hence I dont have any idea regarding the traffic discipline or lack of it. But I believe the key is patience and calm mind while driving a vehicle, otherwise one will end up with all kinds of problems.

Your only goal and objective while driving should be to reach from point A to point B SAFELY and not QUICKLY, watch your own driving and improve on it as much as possible, and not watch others. This behavior on the road causes one to lose focus and end up being in a dangerous situation. Let others do what they want to do, one cannot educate the whole of INDIA. We have to start from our own homes, and slowly but surely one day we may have better traffic sense among us.

How many times someone like us have been wrongly accused of stealing or killing by police. I think never ever !!!, since we will never put ourselves in that situation, because we know that we cannot get away from the long arms of the law, however we think and we know that we can get away by committing a traffic offense, hence we are very casual about it. An offense is an offense !!!!!

Personally I want to be law abiding as far as possible, and I try not to be cynical about the problems in INDIA, most of the time which are of our own making.

[selfdrive]

I am sure I have said this before, maybe on this thread or elsewhere on the forum. The key objective should be to keep fines at a range outside of cheap affordability. Make the fines a % of vehicle OTR cost.
With current rules, a guy in a 20L SUV will pay the same fine as another 'breaking' the same rule using say a 40K bike. Most probably the SUV owner is likely to brush the fine off as minor expense. If it were say 1% of vehicle OTR cost for 2 wheelers and 0.5% for 4 wheelers, the biker here would pay 400 bucks and the SUV guy would pay 10K. Would that be enough of a deterrent?
Tweak the % numbers a bit and use it as a big cane to deter traffic offences. After all the point of traffic fines is to act as a deterrent and not as income generation. We have other taxes for the latter

[Visaster]

Like I said fines wont change anything much.
The system of getting a license and the cost if should be tweaked.
I remember as a kid at18 I went to the RTO to take my driving license test. Had studied the whole booklet of rules and signs (Obviously the interest usually goes with the passion for cars and bikes). I came back so disappointed that no one asked me a single question and i hardly drove 10ft to get my license,

People should be learned enough to understand or should be taught the hard way of learning the right to on the road.

"The eyes can't see what the mind does not know"

Make strict rules, classes to attend, minimum qualification to get a license.
Its the same difference between an uneducated and an educated running a job.

Be ready to pay higher for drivers.