[dadu]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Now HOnda is recalling half a million cars for airbag defects.

Right and quite fatal too. Are these airbags or air attacks.

TOKYO (AFP) - – Honda, Japan's second-biggest carmaker after crisis-hit Toyota, Wednesday recalled more than 400,000 vehicles to fix airbags that it said can explode and spray out potentially deadly metal shards.

The recall, the third related to the defect since late 2008, includes top-selling Accord and Civic cars sold in the United States and Canada as well as models marketed in Japan, Mexico, Taiwan and Australia.

Honda said the defective airbag inflators could rupture, "resulting in metal fragments passing through the airbag cushion material and possibly causing injury or fatality to vehicle occupants".

Source

[k_ajay]

Huh!! So much for the bragged 'Japanese Reliability'.. Toyota has suddenly become Japan's shame, from Japan's icon.

This article is worth a read: Japan gets an economic lesson from Toyota mess- International Business-News-The Economic Times

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by k_ajay

Huh!! So much for the bragged 'Japanese Reliability'.. Toyota has suddenly become Japan's shame, from Japan's icon.

This article is worth a read: Japan gets an economic lesson from Toyota mess- International Business-News-The Economic Times

Take a look at this report. It would probably balance things out a bit and set things in the proper perspective.

Toyota ranks low on list of automaker complaints - Feb. 10, 2010

Cheers!

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Toyota ranks low on list of automaker complaints - Feb. 10, 2010

No of complaints are still less for Toyota when compared to many other manufacturers, but the no of complaints per vehicle started to increase from 2007, where as in case of others, such as Ford, VW and Hyundai, started to reduce.
Also those who owned Toyota cars in the past knows this, the complaints are less for Toyotas, but if it happens, it really hard to get it fixed from the dealer. Even for diagnosis they charge, Also the warranty (no of years) they provide is less when compared to many others.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Take a look at this report. It would probably balance things out a bit and set things in the proper perspective.

Toyota ranks low on list of automaker complaints - Feb. 10, 2010

Cheers!

Maybe it has something to do with the people (19) who would have complained being dead.

The point is not that Toyota made reliable cars(they still do), mechanically they might still be the most reliable, but it is shameful that a company of it's stature tried to brush such a life threatening design defect (I'm assuming that it's a design defect based on reports on the New York Times)
under the carpet.

That article had a video embedded, did you see that? That should have put things in proper perspective.

[shishir_bn]

Just saw the economic times and now they are facing lawsuits.
Source :Economic times (Toyota facing avalanche of US lawsuits)
Link ::: Toyota facing avalanche of US lawsuits- Automobiles-Auto-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by teamveevee

Also those who owned Toyota cars in the past knows this, the complaints are less for Toyotas, but if it happens, it really hard to get it fixed from the dealer. Even for diagnosis they charge, Also the warranty (no of years) they provide is less when compared to many others.

Untrue on both counts. Do you own a Toyota to make such a statement?

Toyota offers a 3 year/100,000 km warranty on its cars in India. And this is NOT an extended warranty like the one Honda offers and comes at no extra cost.

I'd rate them 4.5 on a scale of 5 (where 5 is exemplary) for after sales. While the experience may differ from dealer to dealer, The local dealer DSK is excellent in their after sales support as is TKM India. As for charges to diagnose, any car dealer will do that if the car is out of the warranty period.

I've sent feedback thru their website and received calls from a customer rep in Bangalore in 45 minutes flat. Even the concerns highlighted by me about the accelerator problem were responded to within 24 hours with 2 follow up calls to assess my satisfaction.

Originally Posted by Amartya

Maybe it has something to do with the people (19) who would have complained being dead.

The point is not that Toyota made reliable cars(they still do), mechanically they might still be the most reliable, but it is shameful that a company of it's stature tried to brush such a life threatening design defect (I'm assuming that it's a design defect based on reports on the New York Times)
under the carpet.

That article had a video embedded, did you see that? That should have put things in proper perspective.

Absolutely, it is precisely the wilful ignorance of the issue for several months that has upset me too and believe me I've written harsh mails to TKM in India about this.

No, I didnt see the video. But let us not have this degenerate into a Toyota bashing argument because there are incompetent car mfrs out there. Can you imagine this happening with a company like Skoda who like to believe they are the cat's whiskers? Skoda's expertise extends to taking VW parts, putting them together and hey presto you have a 'German' car.

Cheers!

[CARDEEP]

Admitted that Toyota's response to quality problems has been the very best expample of Japanese practice - "if it stinks, put a lid on it", & they are going to pay for the mistake.

But, it will only make them more resolved to hit back with vengance (read much better quality), which the American Big 3, & even the Germans will will difficult to to match them, which they (BMW & VW, to name a few)have done in the past two years.

Let me cite you an example - When Toyota Tundra 8-Cylinder was introduced, it was the laughing stock of American Big 3, with numerous problems that it was the only non-recommened Toyota vehicle in US. However, Toyota fough back in the next year with improved version which is considered better than any Ford F-series truck.

I would never ditch Toyota, & Camry will always remain my dream car to own.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

Admitted that Toyota's response to quality problems has been the very best expample of Japanese practice - "if it stinks, put a lid on it", & they are going to pay for the mistake.

But, it will only make them more resolved to hit back with vengance (read much better quality), which the American Big 3, & even the Germans will will difficult to to match them, which they (BMW & VW, to name a few)have done in the past two years.

Let me cite you an example - When Toyota Tundra 8-Cylinder was introduced, it was the laughing stock of American Big 3, with numerous problems that it was the only non-recommened Toyota vehicle in US. However, Toyota fough back in the next year with improved version which is considered better than any Ford F-series truck.

I would never ditch Toyota, & Camry will always remain my dream car to own.

To each his own, however, as long as you are dreaming, maybe dreaming bigger won't hurt .

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Untrue on both counts. Do you own a Toyota to make such a statement?

Toyota offers a 3 year/100,000 km warranty on its cars in India. And this is NOT an extended warranty like the one Honda offers and comes at no extra cost.

Sorry this is in US. My brother who owns a Toyota and VW told me this.
Yes TM gives 3 year basic warranty and 5 years powertrain. GM gives 4 years Basic and 7 Years Powertrain warranty. Hynduai and Suzuki offers 10 Year powertrain warranty, That is why he said TM gives the least warranty support among the manufacturers.
For the repair after warranty period, what he mentioned, if you take the Toyota to the dealer and say for example it makes a noice while driving, they charge upfront to look into this (sometimes, will later adjust with the repair, if needed) where as his VW dealer, wont change anything upfront, but if they find any issue, they charge to repair. Engine check lights, both dealers charge.. You are right this practice may be different with different dealerships, but this is his personal experience. Also it may be different in India. I personally do not own a Toyota vehicle, (Thank God, If i owned one, the resale value might have come down 3-6% during the last 2 weeks.)

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by teamveevee

Sorry this is in US. My brother who owns a Toyota and VW told me this.
Yes TM gives 3 year basic warranty and 5 years powertrain. GM gives 4 years Basic and 7 Years Powertrain warranty. Hynduai and Suzuki offers 10 Year powertrain warranty, That is why he said TM gives the least warranty support among the manufacturers

Well you may want to ask your bro which car is more reliable; the Toyota or the VW. I really am curious. :-D

Hyundai and Suzuki come at the bottom of the 'Rice Rocket' heap if you know what I mean thus the 10 year warranties on both cars. That's the only way these guys get attention drawn away from the Big T and H. Warranties vary from country to country.

Believe me, Toyota is being hauled over coals for the bigtime screw up with their recall process and the speed at which they reacted. And rightfully so. They deserve every bit of it. Akio Toyoda must feel he's in a blast furnace with the US Govt fanning the flames.

I also strongly believe the pressure on the company will be so great that it will have to wake up, change the culture and rejig/restructure itself to prevent this from happening again. Toyota and indeed other auto companies will learn a lesson that will help them serve us customers better.

The 3-6% drop is only if you are trading in your vehicle for another one. Most people will choose to hang on till this storm blows over as it eventually will. Public memory is short. The Ford Explorer + Bridgestone Firestone fiasco of a decade ago is treated as ancient history. And so are the Airbus disasters which have killed hundreds of people. How many people actually think of the plane crash off the coast of Brazil in June 09?

Cheers!

[lambuhere1]

What's Behind the Toyota Bashing?

Feb. 12, 2010 (EIRNS)—Japanese and U.S. sources have indicated to EIR that the Toyota recall of millions of cars (mostly in the U.S.A.), and the massive media campaign to demonize Toyota, may be at least in part the result of a conscious effort to undermine, or even destroy, Toyota's U.S. operations, for refusing to support efforts to bailout worthless debt instruments. Japanese sources said that it was widely believed by knowledgeable people in Japan that there is an effort to undermine Toyota, but that the Japanese press won't report it.

Today, however, the Korea Herald reported it:

The world's most dominant and profitable automaker's recall of over 8.5 million cars has spiraled out of control. At first, it seemed to be a normal recall of defective cars. But the crisis Toyota Motor Corp. faces has surpassed the purely 'business' level to involve political and geopolitical dimensions. Many observers suspect something other than safety concerns behind the harsh response of the United States to Toyota's recall. To former Kia Motors chairman Kim Sun-hong, the U.S. reaction to the Toyota problem is an act of 'killing the chickens to scare the monkeys.'

The Herald explains this Chinese proverb as a reference to the
cruel yet effective tactic of killing one to tame a hundred: As monkeys misbehave in the treetops, annoyed humans violently kill chickens in front of the monkeys. From fear, the monkeys get silent and tamed.

The former Kia chairman told the Herald that Toyota has had many recalls, which are a normal and responsible thing among all auto companies. However, said Kim, in the eyes of certain American financial interests, "Toyota has crossed the line that it should not have crossed."
Sources told EIR that the "line" being referred to was that Toyota pulled out of joint ventures with General Motors last year, when U.S. interests were asking Toyota to help bail them out (referring to bailing out huge amounts of worthless financial derivatives and other speculative financial instruments that GMAC got stuck with in its financial speculative activity). Founded to finance motor vehicles sales, GMAC Financial Services is reportedly one of the world's largest financial services companies, having expanded into financial services, including banking, mortgages, investing, and insurance. GM now only owns 6.7% of GMAC Financial Services, while the hedge fund Cerberus owns about 15%, and over 56% is owned by the U.S. Treasury, as the result of the U.S. government bailout.

Not only has the U.S. press run, on a daily basis, exaggerated and selective reports on the supposed dangers of Toyota cars (for years recognized as among the safest and most solidly constructed cars in the world), but the Wall Street Journal even ran a lead story blatantly advising that people sell their Toyota stock.

Kim added:
The message that Washington wants to send through the Toyota recall crisis is that other companies could also be put into such a quandary. The U.S. government wants its trading partners to heed the warning.
The Herald reports that many observers in Japan seem to echo Kim's view.

[shishir_bn]

Just now saw an article that "Toyota finds no problem with electronics"

"Toyota Motor has submitted a letter to the US Congress denying there was a fault with the electronics in millions of vehicles it has recalled
due to problems with the accelerator"

Link : Toyota finds no problem with electronics: reports- Automobiles-Auto-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

[clevermax]

I was shocked to see this thread as well as this news (This also appeared in today's printed Economic Times)

UAE asks Toyota to recall 3,120 vehicles: Report

UAE Asks Toyota to recall 3120 vehicles. The problem is related with sudden acceleration of the cars without the driver pressing the pedal!

Economic times say that this is 19 deaths worldwide are linked to this issue.

I had the impression that Toyota makes near-perfect cars. I tend to believe that it is just a scam to demonize Toyota for some reason, by its competitors?

[amit]

I was shocked to see this thread as well as this news

Be prepared to be shocked some more. Toyota is considering recalling Corolla cars for power steering problems. Apparently there have already been over a 100 complaints about the driver losing control at high speeds in 2009 onwards Corolla's. The same car is sold as the Altis in India.

Of course, there is nothing to worry about the Indian Altis's. They are all safe.

I tend to believe that it is just a scam to demonize Toyota for some reason, by its competitors?

I wonder why all these capable competitors kept quiet for so many decades. They could have brought out this 'scam' years back to 'take on' Toyota.

VW recalled millions of cars in Brazil for some problem. I didn't see any scam / overblown by media / not as serious as it's made out to be kind of words being said when that happened.

To put things into perspective, almost 8 million Toyota's have been recalled worldwide. That's about 4 years of the entire 4 wheeler production in India.