[SilentEngine]

Originally Posted by indivic

My view is that he already knows that he has to overcome the team as well especially considering the time he spent behind Grosjean, when he was probably the quickest on track in that part of the race.

I learnt on another forum that Grosjean is managed by the Bull - talk of conflict of interest - he was probably sitting on his hands trying to decide if Kimi should overtake Grosjean or not.

Go Kimi !!

Yes, it's a bit tricky. Eric Boullier manages Grosjean. He does have a soft corner for Grosjean and it somewhat reflects in his approach towards his drivers. He may not necessarily hamper Kimi's chances, but by not letting Kimi through earlier, his team potentially lost additional 7 points. Hopefully this race taught him a lesson.

[anachronix]

Originally Posted by go-pg

That picture is photoshopped, but nice one. Mark should be banging his head right now. Vettel used Mark's setup and finished 40 seconds ahead!

Its not

Source: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-conten...-bahr-2012.jpg

[go-pg]

Originally Posted by anachronix

Its not

Source: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-conten...-bahr-2012.jpg

That is real indeed!. He is probably thinking he should not have shared his race setup with Seb. I seriously thought Mark would be a lot closer to Seb this season.

But, hey thanks for the source. There are some nice articles there.

[DevilsCry]

Originally Posted by go-pg

But, hey thanks for the source. There are some nice articles there.

Thanks to you, I browsed articles there. I liked the comments section of this article the best Vote for the 2012 Bahrain Grand Prix driver of the weekend - F1 Fanatic.

The article is about who is was the best driver at Bahrain. Raikkonen got 56% votes, Vettel 18% votes, Resta 11% and Grosjean 9%. Rest are 0-1%. How about we guys vote for who was the best driver?

After a long think, my vote goes to Seb Vettel and not to my fav Iceman. Others, input please?

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by DevilsCry

The article is about who is was the best driver at Bahrain. Raikkonen got 56% votes, Vettel 18% votes, Resta 11% and Grosjean 9%. Rest are 0-1%. How about we guys vote for who was the best driver?

After a long think, my vote goes to Seb Vettel and not to my fav Iceman. Others, input please?

For me , the old folks were the best in Bahrain – Kimi, Schumi and Alonso, in that order. The first 2 for the fact that they started way behind (11th, and 17th?), and still managed to finish 2nd and 10th respectively. And Alonso because of the way he is grinding in results with that Ferrari. Vettel always do well if he has a good Saturday. While watching the race, I was thinking how Vettel will fare, if he was in that Ferrari

[DevilsCry]

Originally Posted by vb-san

For me , the old folks were the best in Bahrain – Kimi, Schumi and Alonso, in that order. The first 2 for the fact that they started way behind (11th, and 17th?), and still managed to finish 2nd and 10th respectively. And Alonso because of the way he is grinding in results with that Ferrari. Vettel always do well if he has a good Saturday. While watching the race, I was thinking how Vettel will fare, if he was in that Ferrari

Very good points indeed. I didn't vote for them because-

• Vettel slightly overshadowed Kimi by superb use of KERS and defending racing line well without the Rosberg-style shoving.
• Schumi seems to be overshadowed by Rosberg both in qualifying and in race.
• Massa finished only 7sec behind Alonso. So I can't vote for Alonso (no offense meant to Massa).

As for how Vettel will fare if he was in Ferrari. I hardly think about it because Vettel completely proved himself in Torro Rosso unlike Hamilton who doesn't have a proper proof that he is a great driver.

[asr245]

Originally Posted by vb-san

For me , the old folks were the best in Bahrain – Kimi, Schumi and Alonso, in that order. The first 2 for the fact that they started way behind (11th, and 17th?), and still managed to finish 2nd and 10th respectively. And Alonso because of the way he is grinding in results with that Ferrari. Vettel always do well if he has a good Saturday. While watching the race, I was thinking how Vettel will fare, if he was in that Ferrari

For me, this season it's been Alonso. MS is an old man now who has trouble keeping his team-mate behind. He lucked into points in Bahrain and he's started whining about tyres. Never heard that before, not even in the 2005 season when you had qualify and race on a single set of tyres.

Originally Posted by DevilsCry

I hardly think about it because Vettel completely proved himself in Torro Rosso unlike Hamilton who doesn't have a proper proof that he is a great driver.

I am no Hamilton fan and I do think he needs to sort out his attitude but he has had 2 World Champion team-mates (Alonso in 2007, JB in 2010) who he beat.

[anachronix]

Originally Posted by vb-san

For me , the old folks were the best in Bahrain – Kimi, Schumi and Alonso, in that order. The first 2 for the fact that they started way behind (11th, and 17th?), and still managed to finish 2nd and 10th respectively. And Alonso because of the way he is grinding in results with that Ferrari. Vettel always do well if he has a good Saturday. While watching the race, I was thinking how Vettel will fare, if he was in that Ferrari

Agree!

Originally Posted by asr245

For me, this season it's been Alonso. MS is an old man now who has trouble keeping his team-mate behind. He lucked into points in Bahrain and he's started whining about tyres. Never heard that before, not even in the 2005 season when you had qualify and race on a single set of tyres.

Its not whining, he is just stating the facts. Look at the drop off time between pole lap and the fastest lap on the race day. Thats one of the indicators of how conservative things have become in F1 because of the Pirelli. For a man, who has seen the glory days of racing, F1 of today will look stupid!

I am no Hamilton fan and I do think he needs to sort out his attitude but he has had 2 World Champion team-mates (Alonso in 2007, JB in 2010) who he beat.

Did he beat Alonso in 2007, I thought they were tied on points and all that happened when the whole of Mclaren garage was backing Hamilton in the 2nd half of 2007.

Hamilton beat Button in 2010, but Button has responded really well to Hamilton's challenge until now!

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by DevilsCry

As for how Vettel will fare if he was in Ferrari. I hardly think about it because Vettel completely proved himself in Torro Rosso unlike Hamilton who doesn't have a proper proof that he is a great driver.

Originally Posted by asr245

I am no Hamilton fan and I do think he needs to sort out his attitude but he has had 2 World Champion team-mates (Alonso in 2007, JB in 2010) who he beat.

Agree with both the comments. As far as Lewis is concerned, he looks reasonably happy if Button finish behind him. If Button had finished the race ahead, we might have had many more sulking remarks from Lewis

[asr245]

Originally Posted by anachronix

Its not whining, he is just stating the facts. Look at the drop off time between pole lap and the fastest lap on the race day. Thats one of the indicators of how conservative things have become in F1 because of the Pirelli. For a man, who has seen the glory days of racing, F1 of today will look stupid!

Glory days? Did he drive in the turbo era? For me those were the glory days.

Times have changed and if he can't adapt that means he's too old and should retire. Champions adapt and he was very adept at that. I guess, not any more.

Originally Posted by anachronix

Did he beat Alonso in 2007, I thought they were tied on points and all that happened when the whole of Mclaren garage was backing Hamilton in the 2nd half of 2007.

Hamilton had more wins and thus a higher position. Had Kimi not won in Brazil 07, Hamilton would have been champion, not Alonso. The other part is controversial but still says something about a rookie who upstaged a reigning double world champion.

Originally Posted by anachronix

Hamilton beat Button in 2010, but Button has responded really well to Hamilton's challenge until now!

Yes, indeed. So if one rates Alonso and Button, he has to rate Hamilton equally. Infact, over a lap, I think Hamilton is definitely quicker than Button.

[anachronix]

Originally Posted by asr245

Glory days? Did he drive in the turbo era? For me those were the glory days.

Times have changed and if he can't adapt that means he's too old and should retire. Champions adapt and he was very adept at that. I guess, not any more.

Its not about adapting that Michael is talking about. Michael had the car which can fight for a win (which Rosberg proved in China) and he was pushed to the back of the grid in Bahrain because of a mechanical issue and then a penalty. If it was the glory days of F1, he could have pushed every lap like he has done earlier tried to come back and fight in front. But he was forced to be conservative and look after his tires rather than doing something we all love to see, called 'RACING'!

Michael is not complaining about adapting and you have all the freedom to interpret the way you want, but what I mentioned was a fact which drivers are starting to feel worried about!

At this situation, till the time before Pirellis came it was glory years IMO!

Hamilton had more wins and thus a higher position. Had Kimi not won in Brazil 07, Hamilton would have been champion, not Alonso. The other part is controversial but still says something about a rookie who upstaged a reigning double world champion.

Nothing controversial, while Ron quoted by end of ChineseGP that his team was fighting Alonso rather than Kimi who had run away with the Championship in Brazil. No IFs and BUTs, he did score as much as his teammate in his rookie year with the whole team to support him fighting against his teammate.

Yes, indeed. So if one rates Alonso and Button, he has to rate Hamilton equally. Infact, over a lap, I think Hamilton is definitely quicker than Button.

I dont think thats the case anymore after 2010 for Hamilton or any aggressive drivers like him in F1! He is one of those drivers who has lost to the crapiness of the Pirelli.

[asr245]

Originally Posted by anachronix

Its not about adapting that Michael is talking about. Michael had the car which can fight for a win (which Rosberg proved in China) and he was pushed to the back of the grid in Bahrain because of a mechanical issue and then a penalty. If it was the glory days of F1, he could have pushed every lap like he has done earlier tried to come back and fight in front. But he was forced to be conservative and look after his tires rather than doing something we all love to see, called 'RACING'!

At this situation, till the time before Pirellis came it was glory years IMO!

In 80s and 90s, there was far less downforce, much more powerful engines and much more racing. 2000s onwards too much focus was put on downforce which spoilt racing. Pirelli's introduced these tyres to make racing exciting again (compared to the borefest that was the 2nd half of 2000s). And I say they have done a good job at that. I enjoy it.

Other way to do it is to cut downforce and get wider tracks (wide racing lines).

Originally Posted by anachronix

I dont think thats the case anymore after 2010 for Hamilton or any aggressive drivers like him in F1! He is one of those drivers who has lost to the crapiness of the Pirelli.

In 2011, Hamilton lost to his crapiness rather than Pirelli's. The number of incidents he had far exceeded expectations from a WC. And like I said before, driver's earning multi-million $$ but can't drive within the limits of the car (and tyres)?? They need to be some place else.

[kaynmantis]

Way i see it..

@anachronix got a point regarding pirelli. So does others who opposes his view.

Pirellis are not allowing drivers to push to their limits; At the same time it is leveling the playing field where slightly lesser drivers/cars could compete.

Setting up cars has always been tricky. Even more so with the current Pirellis. Sometimes it seems like racing with an egg balanced on top of the car. Whoever finishes the race without breaking the egg wins. Sure it will require great skill to achieve something like that, nevertheless it's not the "type of skills" I would like to see.

I completely agree, the race is highly competitive; considering 4 different teams winning from 4 races. Its exciting as well. However I would like Pirelli to come up with more durable tyres that allows drivers to fully unleash their "racing" skills. After all, all teams will be using the same tyres, unlike those yesteryears of Michellin vs Bridgestone.

Regarding Rosberg/Hamilton/Alonso incident. I agree with stewards decision.
Rosberg drive was clean even if it was aggressive. Some people are saying, what if there was a wall or like that. Well if there was a wall or grass, the guy behind wouldn't be so hell bent on overtaking. Its precisely because of the huge run-off area that Hamilton did what he did. Making Rosberg appear the villain. For those who did not read the post race investigation. Its said that ..
"1. The driver of car eight(Rosberg) commenced his move to the right after the exit from turn three and moved to the right in a constant and continuous straight line manner, not making any sudden movements (as evidenced by telemetry and video evidence) and;
2. At the time he commenced his move, car four was behind him and no part of his car was alongside car eight and;
3. The driver of car eight made the move to the right prior to the driver of car four making the same move and;
4. For more than half of the distance travelled by car eight in moving in a straight line towards the right hand edge of the track, car four remained behind car eight ".

Similar in case of Alonso.

My surprise was, why wasn't Hamilton penalized for overtaking off-track.

[polopm]

Originally Posted by anachronix

Its not about adapting that Michael is talking about. Michael had the car which can fight for a win (which Rosberg proved in China) and he was pushed to the back of the grid in Bahrain because of a mechanical issue and then a penalty. If it was the glory days of F1, he could have pushed every lap like he has done earlier tried to come back and fight in front. But he was forced to be conservative and look after his tires rather than doing something we all love to see, called 'RACING'!

Michael is not complaining about adapting and you have all the freedom to interpret the way you want, but what I mentioned was a fact which drivers are starting to feel worried about!

At this situation, till the time before Pirellis came it was glory years IMO!



Nothing controversial, while Ron quoted by end of ChineseGP that his team was fighting Alonso rather than Kimi who had run away with the Championship in Brazil. No IFs and BUTs, he did score as much as his teammate in his rookie year with the whole team to support him fighting against his teammate.



I dont think thats the case anymore after 2010 for Hamilton or any aggressive drivers like him in F1! He is one of those drivers who has lost to the crapiness of the Pirelli.

Fully agree !!

In the name of spicing up the race, we are getting ulcers and heartburn.

What is the take away for the manufactures now, other than producing trouble free engines ??? Zilch ! There are no takeaways from the F1 industry for the passenger cars. Lets go back to the old days , make cars look nicer. Heck, lets bring back refueling too. Let men be men. Amen.

[PAVAN KADAM]

90% of the grid is not pushing their cars to its limits and Michael is 100% right in his review. This coming from a Vetern F1 driver who's BEEN THERE, DONE THAT, should be true. So Pirelli must take this seriously and do something for the betterment of F1.

Simple examples that i watched

1) Australian GP - Vettel looked after his tyres and be content with P2

2) Malaysian GP - Sergio Perez slows down his charging Sauber due to tyres
- Schumacher could not pass Hulkenberg for P9 in dying laps

3) Chinese GP - Too many incidents to quote

4) Bharain GP - Kimi slow's down his charge to P1 to take care of his tyres
- Force India Paul Di-rista lost out one position to Roseberg
- Schumacher lost out on P9 due to tyre wear

Others who are not complaining are the one's who dont have cars that can go those speeds