Mclaren face possible ban for 2007 & 2008!! (Edit: Now confirmed)

madhav · 14th September 2007, 03:11

One question that will never be answered is, what Ferrari information was used by McLaren and what is the kind of performance gain?

vabs78 · 14th September 2007, 04:38

What is going on? First cricket now F1. Where should we go

nkapoor777 · 14th September 2007, 08:16

This is a big farce. Why spare the drivers when the manufacturer has been punished? After all, they were driving the very same car which is alleged to have been improved using those secrets?

I am a red-hot tifosi but this decision saddens me. F1 can do better than that, please forget getting one-up by cheating others or stealing some-one else's trade secrets.

kphilip · 14th September 2007, 08:50

Atlast ferrari had their stands cleared..Mclarens proved to be the losers.dont think the enginners in maclaren will sweat now to make their drivers win the rest of the races..Bad luck for hamilton as he mite be winning the championship with some bad reputations.

GTO · 14th September 2007, 10:24

If ever there was doubt, it is now absolutely clear that his name is indeed MAD Mosley. This is such a shame...and an outrageous one at that. A 100 million dollar fine!! And the entire constructors points taken away. So much for all the hard work put in by the entire team.

Very smartly, they have not punished the drivers (points) at all. Reason? Would that not kill the viewership for the remainder of this exciting season?

Think about it....arent the drivers to gain the most if the car was indeed influenced by the secret paperwork?

mclaren1885 · 14th September 2007, 10:28

Looks like the tifosi is very unhappy about the decision taken on the WDC. So what you guys want is Mclaren to get banned so that Ferrari gets a totally non-competitive shot at the title? And subsequently have no fight to the title next year too? Is that how you justify Ferrari should win the championship?

Let us look at the bigger picture of the game. How well it could have backfired on the sport itself if Mclaren were to totally get banned. I know we love ferrari or mclaren or renault but let our blind love not affect the way we judge the situation. It was done in the best interest of the sport.

Looks like nobody is ready to accept/consider this?

Quote:

Looking at it from a different perspective is it possible that Ferrari MIGHT have intentionally leaked such misinterpreted (or false technical figures) info to Mclaren? Could Ferrari have set this whole event up?

Or could it also be a fact that Mclaren did use this info to find out if Ferrari were indeed running illegal stuff on their car (and protest to the FIA) and not necessarily use the info to better their cars?

Rtech · 14th September 2007, 10:36

This was a lose lose situation whichever way you look at it.

On one hand, evidence showed beyond a doubt that Mclaren had indeed obtained Ferrari's designs. Proof of this was Mclarens questioning of the Ferrari floor. That is an advantage to Mclaren isn't it? Hence, they did gain an advantage, even if only that one (which we know about).

So now, what can the WMSC do?
Option 1: Kick them out of the 2007 Championship in full. That means no drivers points, no constructors points, nothing. That means that the history books would not even show Mclaren as an entry in the 2007 Championship. It also means that the points table of all drivers would change, trophies would have to be swapped and a hellava lot more.

This is turn would essentially reduce the 2007 F1 season to a sham for spectators and drivers alike. End result, not only would Mclaren be punished, but so would all of us and all the sponsors in F1 etc.

Option 2: Do what they did. Penalise Mclaren, the team, by taking away their points and slapping them with a god-almighty fine. Drivers continue racing for the Championship which in turn does not affect the ratings and the history books. No, it is not the perfect legal decision, but given the circumstances, I do believe it was a realistic decision keeping the bigger picture in mind.

Think back to the Michilen debacle in the USGP. At that time we all wanted the FIA to relax their tough stance and figure out a way to allow all the cars to race. It didn't happen at that time as that issue involved making a change to the design of the circuit, which in turn would dramatically affect legal and insurance issues. However, the public at large wanted the FIA to be a bit more humane in their decision.

Now we are criticizing them for doing exactly that.

mclaren1885 · 14th September 2007, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

Think back to the Michilen debacle in the USGP. At that time we all wanted the FIA to relax their tough stance and figure out a way to allow all the cars to race. It didn't happen at that time as that issue involved making a change to the design of the circuit, which in turn would dramatically affect legal and insurance issues. However, the public at large wanted the FIA to be a bit more humane in their decision.

Now we are criticizing them for doing exactly that.

Robeen, you just stole the words out of my mouth. I was just about to post this, clicked on the thread and found your post. Well said.

finneyp · 14th September 2007, 11:01

Am not very happy with the FIA decision! How can they leave out the drivers who benefitted the most by this shameless Spy scandal?

Atleast they should have been docked by 20 points each!

RacingForIndia · 14th September 2007, 11:15

Its a pity that my team got booted out of the championship. I am wondering had Schumacher be driving for Ferrari this year and in the title hunt, would they have still persisted with their humane descision of keeping Lewis and Alonso still in the title hunt.
This is not the end of it, I think there might be a blood bath between Mercedes and the FIA, as the Germans dont take such damage to their reputation lying down.
As Paul Stoddart SMS'ed Ron Dennis recently "Dont let those #@$T@*^$ get you"!

LandCruiser · 14th September 2007, 11:18

"Did you give the e.mail to Flavio Briatore to show the FIA?" This question will haunt Fernando Alonso for the rest of his career. He might as well admit it now. Who else was it going to be?

What the devil is this?!!

sushanthr77 · 14th September 2007, 11:33

Its unfair that the drivers themselves got away without any penalty. It doesn't matter whether Mclaren used the stolen information directly in their car or tweaked their designs to counter the Ferrari advantages. The truth of the matter is that, they were in possession of the design and they didn't bring it to the notice of FIA. This itself proves that their actions were a consequence of clandestine intentions.

Hamilton and Alonso are great for the sport. So the FIA smartly didn't penalize them to retain the viewers. As someone mentioned earlier, it would've been interesting to see what FIA would've done if the driver in contention was Schumy!

Rtech · 14th September 2007, 11:35

That's easy. If the driver was Schumi, we'd have the whole world sentence him before any formal hearing itself.

And, if by some chance he managed to get away with his points intact, the said world would claim that it happened because it was Schumi! lol!

Dippy · 14th September 2007, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

That's easy. If the driver was Schumi, we'd have the whole world sentence him before any formal hearing itself.

And, if by some chance he managed to get away with his points intact, the said world would claim that it happened because it was Schumi! lol!

Very well said RT. And for those who've always claimed that the FIA is pro Ferrari, wasnt Schumi stripped of 2nd place in the championship in 97' when Villenueve became WC?

The FIA have handled thw whole thing in a very smart way. Though they punished Mclaren by throwing them out of the Constructors Championship, they spared the drivers so that viewers and sponsors are not pissed. After all its been a very exciting season.

VJ_MAVRICK · 14th September 2007, 12:22

Well ! This was more or less expected if Mc Laren were found guilty and Ron Dennis still maintains that no such info was ever used.

The Official Formula 1 Website

In between all this I wonder whats on Stepney, the man blamed for all this...no news about him....Its also good to know that this ban is not implemented on the drivers lest it should rob of the final days showdown which is the best ever till date since decades.

14th September 2007, 03:11	#46
madhav BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 286 Thanked: 73 Times	One question that will never be answered is, what Ferrari information was used by McLaren and what is the kind of performance gain?
	() Thanks

14th September 2007, 04:38	#47
vabs78 BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Pune, India Posts: 552 Thanked: 11 Times View My Garage	What is going on? First cricket now F1. Where should we go
	() Thanks

14th September 2007, 08:16	#48
nkapoor777 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 608 Thanked: 143 Times	This is a big farce. Why spare the drivers when the manufacturer has been punished? After all, they were driving the very same car which is alleged to have been improved using those secrets? I am a red-hot tifosi but this decision saddens me. F1 can do better than that, please forget getting one-up by cheating others or stealing some-one else's trade secrets.
	() Thanks

14th September 2007, 08:50	#49
kphilip BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cochin Posts: 333 Thanked: 6 Times	Atlast ferrari had their stands cleared..Mclarens proved to be the losers.dont think the enginners in maclaren will sweat now to make their drivers win the rest of the races..Bad luck for hamilton as he mite be winning the championship with some bad reputations.
	() Thanks

14th September 2007, 10:24	#50
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,546 Thanked: 300,767 Times View My Garage	If ever there was doubt, it is now absolutely clear that his name is indeed MAD Mosley. This is such a shame...and an outrageous one at that. A 100 million dollar fine!! And the entire constructors points taken away. So much for all the hard work put in by the entire team. Very smartly, they have not punished the drivers (points) at all. Reason? Would that not kill the viewership for the remainder of this exciting season? Think about it....arent the drivers to gain the most if the car was indeed influenced by the secret paperwork?
	() Thanks

14th September 2007, 10:36	#52
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 359 Times View My Garage	This was a lose lose situation whichever way you look at it. On one hand, evidence showed beyond a doubt that Mclaren had indeed obtained Ferrari's designs. Proof of this was Mclarens questioning of the Ferrari floor. That is an advantage to Mclaren isn't it? Hence, they did gain an advantage, even if only that one (which we know about). So now, what can the WMSC do? Option 1: Kick them out of the 2007 Championship in full. That means no drivers points, no constructors points, nothing. That means that the history books would not even show Mclaren as an entry in the 2007 Championship. It also means that the points table of all drivers would change, trophies would have to be swapped and a hellava lot more. This is turn would essentially reduce the 2007 F1 season to a sham for spectators and drivers alike. End result, not only would Mclaren be punished, but so would all of us and all the sponsors in F1 etc. Option 2: Do what they did. Penalise Mclaren, the team, by taking away their points and slapping them with a god-almighty fine. Drivers continue racing for the Championship which in turn does not affect the ratings and the history books. No, it is not the perfect legal decision, but given the circumstances, I do believe it was a realistic decision keeping the bigger picture in mind. Think back to the Michilen debacle in the USGP. At that time we all wanted the FIA to relax their tough stance and figure out a way to allow all the cars to race. It didn't happen at that time as that issue involved making a change to the design of the circuit, which in turn would dramatically affect legal and insurance issues. However, the public at large wanted the FIA to be a bit more humane in their decision. Now we are criticizing them for doing exactly that.
	() Thanks

14th September 2007, 11:01	#54
finneyp Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,716 Thanked: 319 Times View My Garage	Am not very happy with the FIA decision! How can they leave out the drivers who benefitted the most by this shameless Spy scandal? Atleast they should have been docked by 20 points each! Last edited by finneyp : 14th September 2007 at 11:09.
	() Thanks

14th September 2007, 11:15	#55
RacingForIndia BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 482 Thanked: 36 Times View My Garage	Its a pity that my team got booted out of the championship. I am wondering had Schumacher be driving for Ferrari this year and in the title hunt, would they have still persisted with their humane descision of keeping Lewis and Alonso still in the title hunt. This is not the end of it, I think there might be a blood bath between Mercedes and the FIA, as the Germans dont take such damage to their reputation lying down. As Paul Stoddart SMS'ed Ron Dennis recently "Dont let those #@$T@*^$ get you"!
	() Thanks

14th September 2007, 11:18	#56
LandCruiser BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chennai Posts: 712 Thanked: 51 Times View My Garage	"Did you give the e.mail to Flavio Briatore to show the FIA?" This question will haunt Fernando Alonso for the rest of his career. He might as well admit it now. Who else was it going to be? What the devil is this?!!
	() Thanks

14th September 2007, 11:33	#57
sushanthr77 BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Mangalore / DXB Posts: 280 Thanked: 5 Times View My Garage	Its unfair that the drivers themselves got away without any penalty. It doesn't matter whether Mclaren used the stolen information directly in their car or tweaked their designs to counter the Ferrari advantages. The truth of the matter is that, they were in possession of the design and they didn't bring it to the notice of FIA. This itself proves that their actions were a consequence of clandestine intentions. Hamilton and Alonso are great for the sport. So the FIA smartly didn't penalize them to retain the viewers. As someone mentioned earlier, it would've been interesting to see what FIA would've done if the driver in contention was Schumy!
	() Thanks

14th September 2007, 11:35	#58
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 359 Times View My Garage	That's easy. If the driver was Schumi, we'd have the whole world sentence him before any formal hearing itself. And, if by some chance he managed to get away with his points intact, the said world would claim that it happened because it was Schumi! lol!
	() Thanks

14th September 2007, 12:22	#60
VJ_MAVRICK Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,239 Thanked: 34 Times View My Garage	Well ! This was more or less expected if Mc Laren were found guilty and Ron Dennis still maintains that no such info was ever used. The Official Formula 1 Website In between all this I wonder whats on Stepney, the man blamed for all this...no news about him....Its also good to know that this ban is not implemented on the drivers lest it should rob of the final days showdown which is the best ever till date since decades.
	() Thanks