[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by im_srini

With the TC ban, Kimi became a damp squib

Interesting description aside from the fact that it doesn't really apply.

Originally Posted by im_srini

the only spectaculars from the "IceMan" were his wisecracks

How we love alternate realities where the Belgian Grand Prix doesn't occur...

Originally Posted by im_srini

It was poor Massa who took the fight to Lewis most of this year too.

I agree! Lewis, who wasn't even remotely in contention for the championship, must have enjoyed Felipe's gutsy efforts from a Brazilian hospital bed.

Originally Posted by im_srini

I don't remember Schumi being outclassed by his team-mate - ever...

Spot on! Why let the fact that Ferrari never hired a properly competitive driver to partner Schumi get in the way?

[jraj]

What kind of thread is this.

Forget the stats : WDC's \ Poles \ Race wins \ Points etc

Consider just this
- A team pays ONE even 3 years after his retirment to keep him IN
- The same team pays another to keep him OUT

I dont remember THE ONE taking a ,so called one year sabbatical,for want of a seat to keep his *** in.

[blacmagic]

anybody who is tapped by an F1 team is good. this comparison would be fair if we made Kimi and Schumi race identical cars.

I personally worship the Flying Finns. they race with cold fire, not robotic precision.
these days, Ive begun to love Kimi even more for his attitude. I dont care if he never races in F1 again, it was a joy to watch somebody who said "nothing special, really" when asked how he was feeling after winning the WDC.

used to be firmly anti Schumi when Mika was around but have now gotten around to acknowledging the obvious fact that he was very very good.

ultimately, you are comparing an apple to an orange my friend.

enjoy these:

YouTube - Will Kimi succeed?

YouTube - Omnitel F-1, part III

YouTube - Omnitel F-1, part III

[Indianstorms]

A Senna - God
Mika - The King
Schumi - Master Tactician
Kimi- has a lot to learn!!

[Country Road]

Originally Posted by Indianstorms

A Senna - God
Mika - The King
Schumi - Master Tactician
Kimi- has a lot to learn!!

I do agree to the first 3. However - Kimi - needs a lot of luck.

[BlackPearl]

There should be no comparison between the two. Kimi is not even a close competitor to MS, though I am a big fan of Kimi and would have liked him to do better. IMHO, Mika was better than Kimi.

[AbhayJames]

Kimi Raikkonen forever. The biggest pair of balls on the track. period. Not media savvy or attention hungry. Just balls to the walls. Any racer that can win at Spa 4 times is a driving god.

[im_srini]

Originally Posted by AbhayJames

Any racer that can win at Spa 4 times is a driving god.

Ahem, Schumi's won it 6 times, Senna (the real driving God) has won it 5 times !

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by im_srini

Ahem, Schumi's won it 6 times, Senna (the real driving God) has won it 5 times !

Schumacher won six times out of fourteen attempts. Raikkonen won it four times in seven attempts. That gives Kimi a success rate of 57.1% which is significantly better than Schumacher's 42.8%. Senna's percentage record at 50% is also better than Schumacher's but not as good as Raikkonen's.

[im_srini]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Schumacher won six times out of fourteen attempts. Raikkonen won it four times in seven attempts. That gives Kimi a success rate of 57.1% which is significantly better than Schumacher's 42.8%. Senna's percentage record at 50% is also better than Schumacher's but not as good as Raikkonen's.

Schumacher won the WDC 7 out of 16 attempts. Raikkonen won it once in 9 attempts. That gives Kimi a success rate of 11.1% which is nowhere near Schumacher's 43.8%. Senna's percentage record at 27.3% is also better than Kimi's but not as good as Schumacher's.

P.S. - In fact "WonderBoy" Lewis has a better record at 33.3% & he's not even quit yet !

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by im_srini

Schumacher won the WDC 7 out of 16 attempts. Raikkonen won it once in 9 attempts. That gives Kimi a success rate of 11.1% which is nowhere near Schumacher's 43.8%. Senna's percentage record at 27.3% is also better than Kimi's but not as good as Schumacher's.

P.S. - In fact "WonderBoy" Lewis has a better record at 33.3% & he's not even quit yet !

You guys were talking about Spa and I replied regarding that. Clearly, you missed that point completely and started throwing around statistics for the heck of it. Its common knowledge that Schumacher is more successful when it comes to WDC stats

[dockap]

i have never been a fan of schumacher but sentiments aside no doubt he is the best you can compare him to rossi in gp500 they are the only 2 people who can increase their lap times at will and win even when they are not in the best cars or bikes on the track

[jasher26]

how can you compare?? michael is miles ahead of kimi!

[Iamlegend]

This is a no brainer.Its got to be michael................

[headers]

Hey, what a comparison - One actually dares compare Schumi with the Rest..

Originally Posted by kcnetid

so please reign in your language when you dispute me :-)

1. Kimi did have a good team with McLaren but was somehow dogged with a mech and engine problems. He managed to win only after shifting to Ferrari.

Sad, but the initial years of MS was not a win for him either!

Kimi always beat schumi when he had a good car and there were more than a few times when he was leading and the car broke down. Funnily I remember the same for Ruebens - maybe he was give the 2nd car and the primary to schumi.

Sadly, you look at it that way sir!

2. Other major factors in Schumi wins:
2.1 Ross Brawn and Todd are very big factors in the wins by Schumi. Look at what happened this year.
2.2 Mika chose to retire. There was no way Schumi could have won half as many if Mika continued.
2.3 Poor Ruebens was under 'team orders'. I am surprised his spirit is not crushed by now.
2.4 After Mika and before Renault/Alonso, other cars were not just in the same class in terms of pace or reliability. All the other champs/former champs did not get good rides.
2.5 There were a lot of times when Schumi got away with infractions where other drivers would have been penalised and hence lost places/points.

Mika was good, but MS was the BEST.

Not taking anything away from Schumi, my guess is that he *actually* won not more than 2-3 championships on equal terms. The rest were because of the reasons mentioned above. Look at what happened when Renault had a good car or with BrawnGP.

You cant be so critical sir - accept MS = GOD of F1.

Also despite Kimi's partying image, he has way more class on the track than Schumi, I don't recall one incident of a cheap shot from Kimi while I remember many cases of Schumi's wheel banging or aggressive tactics. I used to like Schumi but sorta lost respect from him after seeing him celebrating wins after Ruebens 'team orders' to fall back and also quite a few incidents of 'aggressive racing'.

How many years has Kimi raced in comparison to MS? Again - I love Kimi for his driving style but MS was CLASS.

All said and done, in another 5 yrs, nobody will remember individual races or even seasons and all that will remain is the record books and Schumi's 7 wins - however justified that is.

I have to agree sir!

Originally Posted by Akadian

I think Ayrton Senna is unmatched till date and if he had not died in the midst of his peak, the record books would have been telling a completely different story. Schumi would have found it much harder to win those first two with Benetton

What about Sir Alain Prost - He was not called the "Professor of F1" for no reason.

Originally Posted by ksethuram

+1.

Yes, i understand both are good and fast drivers, and with all respect to both,
Schumi was cocky, Kimi is not.
Schumi built a team around him, Kimi just used what he had.
Schumi never took sabatical, but Kimi did.
Schumi was a good PR person, Kimi is not...

There are many more.. So no way Kimi is near Schumi.

Ha ha, I like this post!

Originally Posted by Akadian

Schumi's numbers are highly misleading. If Senna had not died, he would never have won the first two and if Mikka had not retired he would have lost another 2 at least. What is left is 3 out of the seemingly unsurpassable 7. I sincerely believe that is his true worth

I believe in a different math sir, that the world believes in and gave MS 7 WDCs.

Ofcourse, one can always choose to convince oneself that his thinking is right - right?

MS redefined F1 when he came into Ferrari after winning 2 WDC in 94 and 95. Ferrari was a loser on its return to F1.

The Magical team of Ross Brawn, Jean Todt and Michael Schumacher rebuilt Ferrari and gave them their victory.

And IT TAKES A LOT OF HARD WORK to do that. The Likes of J Villeneuve and Damon Hill had a freak WDC too.

The real fight for Ferrari and MS was Mika Hakkinnen.

Mika was a different guy altogether.