[Sheel]

Originally Posted by Mpower

& I'm talking about the global MotoGP media coverage not the local news.

It was all over in Midwest, Iowa
The Moto GP media didn't bother.

THe competetion in WSBK is not at the same level

We are talking about Haga/Corser/ Biaggi etc & if they aren't at top level, I wonder...
On similar bikes they can lap as fast as most(maybe barring the 4 aliens)Moto GP riders, but then this discussion isn't going to get us anywhere.

I'm not undermining his achievement at all. (see my point2) I am just reasoning why suddenly the Euro riders were not able to keep up with him. You will know what I mean when the party heads back to Europe.

His championship stats put him at no.6, just behind Vale.

3 years is nothing. These guys have ridden European tracks since their teenage years through 125 and 250 classes and know it like the back of their hands. On the other hand, Ben came up through the AMA series.

YouTube - The Ben Spies Method

This video is a fun/MUST watch, hope you will like it

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that the track conditions were crap. Indy-500 and Brickyard 400 which are the only other 2 events of the year use the oval and not the infield.

I would like to see Indy replaced by Salt Lake City.

A good read--

You don't think he has what it takes to win a championship. How about a race? Do you think he has what it takes to win a race? He just beat all the aliens except Pedrosa, on an inferior machine. He won pole. He almost won pole last round. He's just getting warmed up.

I'm not late to this bandwagon. I've been following him since his early years. I was there at the podium at Barber when he won his first championship in FX. When (almost) everybody else was poo pooing how boring AMA was, I was saying they were missing out on two of the best racers in the world epically dueling it out. People said no, that's just AMA... Last year in SBK, some people finally took notice. Mladin predicted Spies would win the SBK championship in his rookie year, and nobody believed him. He was 87 points down to Haga at one point. And Haga was on Bayliss' equipment, not inferior equipment as you previously stated. Spies was on a brand new machine (that's clearly not so dominant without him), new team, new everything.

This year, people were saying that no... Simoncelli was going to destroy Spies. Bautista was going to bury Spies. Barbera would beat Spies. All these rookies from 250GPs with their track knowledge and riding style would shut down the Superbike rider Spies. All the regulars were going to send Spies packing back to SBK or AMA Superbikes, where he belongs... like Toseland, or Byrne.

I've said all Spies needed to have a successful rookie season was to place higher than Edwards. Beating Hayden (who I've stated before is a lesser rider than Spies) would just be icing on the cake. He's soundly defeated Edwards so far this year, he's ahead of Hayden in points at the moment, and he's beaten everybody else on the grid at some point. So far in his rookie season, he's only managed to steadily improve. Recently, two podiums, a pole and a second place start. On a satellite team. His main competition isn't Edwards. And it isn't going to be Rossi anymore, or Hayden, or Stoner. It's going to be Dani and Jorge. Make no mistake, Ben is on the ascent. He's a consummate professional racer.

[VLOCT]

WSBK has a lot of ex MotoGP racers and so the skill level is more than comparable. Only the bikes themselves are superior.

Like the above write up says, Spies has already beaten all or most of the top riders in the circuit. I don't think Jorge can beat him on a properly set up factory ride. Dani definitely can but, can he handle the pressure! Of course, this is motorcycle racing. All it takes is one injury to completely change your fortunes. Can't wait for next year.

I still don't know why the hell Hayden is with Ducati or even MotoGP. He won the championship without winning a race, I believe. Ducati, please get rid of that guy.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by VLOCT

I still don't know why the hell Hayden is with Ducati or even MotoGP. He won the championship without winning a race, I believe. Ducati, please get rid of that guy.

He won two races in 2006 IIRC. One was at Laguna, you may check stats for the rest.

[VLOCT]

Thanks sheel. Knew he had multiple podiums but, few wins. Never really much cared for his riding style. Don't know why Ducati signed him for another two years.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by Sheel

It We are talking about Haga/Corser/ Biaggi etc & if they aren't at top level, I wonder...
On similar bikes they can lap as fast as most(maybe barring the 4 aliens)Moto GP riders, but then this discussion isn't going to get us anywher

WSBK is definetly 3rd tier IMO. 1st is MotoGP and 2nd is Moto2's top half. I doubt if Haga can manage a top 10 finish in MotoGP today.

I agree Niki Hayden and Colin Edwards are past their prime. The sponsors want them because they are American and it helps pull audiences. BTW, Ducati is pulling out of WSBK.

[VLOCT]

WSBK is only a notch below MotoGP and that too only in the bikes, not skill level. Heck, they ride at speeds very comparable to MotoGP. All most all WSBK riders have the skill to be a top ten in MotoGP. However, most will never get a chance unless, they prove to be consistently at the top. That's the key, consistency which is also the most difficult.

[Sheel]

Anybody who has the talent to be even on a National Grid is a champion and we are talking about pinnacles.

Most of the Motorcyclist in States & Europe prefer WSBK over Moto GP as it is more production oriented & has less electronics.

Moto GP is a superior sport over WSBK, but in talent...Well..., I would rather be quiet.

[Mpower]

95% of MotoGP riders have come from 250/Moto2 series with only 1 or 2 from WSBK. That right there tells me about the caliber of the riders. The reason WSBK laptimes are close is because they have bigger 1000 cc engines.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by Mpower

95% of MotoGP riders have come from 250/Moto2 series with only 1 or 2 from WSBK. That right there tells me about the caliber of the riders.

There are more riders from Europe because most of the riding takes place in Europe & earlier the 125's & 250's prototype were available a plenty in Europe so that the riders were racing these when they were in their diapers unlike US/Australia where these prototypes weren't available & you had to go to Europe to take part in these.There were production Motorcycles available, not prototypes.

The reason WSBK laptimes are close is because they have bigger 1000 cc engines.

I hope you are not serious

Usually WSBK Motorcycles lap ~3-6 secs off than the regular MotoGP paddock. It all boils down to the technology built into it. Hope you remember the last race of 2006 where Troy Bayliss left everyone in dust & won the race. Exceptions yes and if you speak in general, then i would agree that MotoGP has more raw/young talent. And if things are seen in perspective then the riders leaving MotoGP should be winning championships in WSBK, but this isn't the case.
Makoto Tamada/ Shinya Nakano/ Reuben Xaus/ Alex Baross/ Alex Hoffman/ Carlos Checa.
All ex Moto GP stars, but what have they achieved? Post 3 years in WSBK, a rider like Max Biaagi might clinch his maiden WSBK title in 2010.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by Sheel

There are more riders from Europe because most of the riding takes place in Europe & earlier the 125's & 250's prototype were available a plenty in Europe.There were production Motorcycles available, not prototypes.

I'm not saying they are necessarily coming from Europe. I'm saying they are coming from 250/Moto2. BTW 125 and 250 GP bikes are available in US/AUS and I believe there is a local racing series as well.

Originally Posted by Sheel

I hope you are not serious.

I absolutely am. cc to cc MotoGP bikes are lot more high tech than SBK and are faster despite a 200 cc handicap. You posted the laptimes yourself.

Originally Posted by Sheel

if you speak in general, then i would agree that MotoGP has more raw/young talent.

Thats pretty much the bottomline aint it? & yes I am speaking in general and not about exceptions like Spies.

Originally Posted by Sheel

And if things are seen in perspective then the riders leaving MotoGP should be winning championships in WSBK, but this isn't the case.
Makoto Tamada/ Shinya Nakano/ Reuben Xaus/ Alex Baross/ Alex Hoffman/ Carlos Checa.

First of all the riders you have named were uncompetitive in 500/MotoGP when they left and towards the end of their career. Try names like Lorenzo & Pedrosa against Haslam and Rea.

For example I'm saying that level of Men's tennis is higher than womens, you're arguing with me that world No.2 seed woman can beat a No.178 seed guy.

[VLOCT]

Just by being in any of the three top circuits means you're among the best in the world. But lets be honest. If you're not number one or two in any of these circuits who'll remember you? How many remember the second place during all those years when Rossi was winning? Forget about who else is in the top ten. But any of these riders are capable of winning a race in any of these circuits. But being a champion is a different beast altogether.

There are only six people in the world who are capable of winning championships. They're the ones who come first or second in the three circuits. It doesn't matter which circuit, they've the talent to win any of these championship simply because they're the best in the world.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by Mpower

I absolutely am. cc to cc MotoGP bikes are lot more high tech than SBK and are faster despite a 200 cc handicap. You posted the laptimes yourself.

I was saying so because the 800cc's rule came into effect from 2007,

Originally Posted by Mpower

First of all the riders you have named were uncompetitive in 500/MotoGP when the left and towards the end of their career. Try names like Lorenzo & Pedrosa against Haslam and Rea.

We would never know brother.
A stock Motorcycle on 4 tracks will churn out the best.

The series/league 'champion of champions' (of something similar, i forgot) has some amazing showdown. Last I heard Seb Loeb beat MS.(am I right?) & perhaps Jenson Button beat some more renowned champion, I can't exactly recall.

At the end of the day my pick would be (for pure racing/viewing pleasure)
IOMTT>AMA/BSB>WSBK(stock)>WSBK>MotoGP
Bring back the 500's and I would be game, controlling slides/spins/wheelies is poetry in motion.

Posting qualifying laptimes for Misano--
1 Dani Pedrosa Repsol Honda Honda 1:33.948
2 Jorge Lorenzo Fiat Yamaha Yamaha 1:34.256
3 Casey Stoner Ducati Marlboro Ducati 1:34.397
4 Valentino Rossi Fiat Yamaha Yamaha 1:34.470
5 Ben Spies Tech 3 Yamaha Yamaha 1:34.472

[nitrous]

I watched Spies at Indy and I must say his riding was pretty mature inspite of him being a rookie.

[Manoj2268]

Another Japanese is gone forever! Shoya Tomizawa passed away in a horrific crash in the Moto2 race.

Rest In Peace!

[hillram]

Sad news about Shoya Tomizawa.May his soul rest in peace.