[Poitive]

Quite delayed on this thread, Ninja, but I guess you know the reasons.
Congrats again! Have yet to see a Blue Vento on the road, but from your pictures - What a lovely colour!

You must have heard that numerous times, I am sure. One thing I found interesting about the Vento is how it seems to take a rather different look and character with the colour. It happens in all cars, but even more so with the Vento.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

There were only three cars in my head then - the ubiquitous Maruti Swift, the lovely Honda city and monster Tata Safari.
That made an interesting debate with the lady during the rest of the trip. While my choice was the Safari, she wanted a Corolla! The only point we could finally come to an agreement was that the car should be a sedan & preferably Maruti.
~~~~~~~~
The Ford showroom is close by, so I head over there to have a look at the Classic and also to get details about the new Fiesta. Although the showroom is empty, it takes close to 10 minutes for the sales guy to speak to me. In a very un-interested manner, he informs me that he has absolutely no idea about the new fiesta, and after indicating that the Classic is right in front of me, he heads back inside. I run after him to request for a TD, he shrugs and states blatantly that there are no TD cars available.
~~~~~~~~~
(Let me go a little further on this - even the VW showrooms at Mumbai & Pune displayed similar setups - as a marketing professional I could only applaud VW for differentiating themselves from others!)

Quite a mix, you started with, Ninja. From a popular hatch to the monstrous Safari!

The agreement between you and the lady speaks of the appeal Maruti has built over the years. A lot many people (including some of my friends), just don't want to look elsewhere, unless they really have to. An enviable position to be in for Maruti, and it seems to be frittering it away, by not having a suitable produce mix.

Others like Ford and GM (like you mentioned in the Finally! thread), seem to push customers away, but not having suitable arrangements for TD's. Weird, isn't it? To spend so much to get the customers by promotion campaigns and image building exercises, then only to fritter it away for such silly reasons.

Your experience at the VW showroom seems to have been much better than others. I too had 2-3 visits to them. Realized that if I let them, they'll make me wait forever. A bit of appropriate handling, and things started moving well. A lot of what one gets is based on how people are handled. Also on having reasonable expectations. Like your 15 minute wait, when the SE is busy is with another customer can be totally understandable, but also be taken by many as unreasonable behavior.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

In terms of color preference, the lady (not the car) choose blue - I wanted black, but you know who always wins these kind of arguments So, blue it was.

Aaah! So it is to the credit of the lady! Now you know whose advice to take!!!

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Till date, after over 8 visits, the maximum time I ever had to wait was 15 minutes max, and that too because the SE was caught up with another customer.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Till date I am ever grateful to my friend, but he also informs me a very disturbing fact - the dealer has been playing with my booking as there have been blue car deliveries done to BUB in the previous month.

Still, overall the experience with BUB has been a good one. In comparison to the cold attitude shown at Vidyut motors, I would recommend everybody to go ahead with BUB.

BUB really seems to have won your over, mate. Feeling the experience to be good, despite them playing with your booking. Or maybe it is to do with the low expectations one may have had, with all the talk about poor pre-sales experiences with VW.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Finally she arrives - all washed and looking lovely like a newly wed bride!

Now, don't let the lady read that

and the new surveillance-less non-monitoring system

Had read a comment about it not being useful in India. Could you please elaborate on it? What was the surveillance system like and why it wasn't useful in India? (in case it has already been answered, pardon me, as I have only read the first few pages and the last).

Originally Posted by samarjitdhar

I actually like the handling a lot. I only drove a Linea (which is famed to be the best) for some TDs but didnt find the handling on the Vento worse than the Linea. During my recent road trips I could take reasonably sharp turns at around 70-80 with confidence without the car getting unstable even one bit. Sure these were not hairpin bends, but when compared with the Linea, the Linea handling might be better by a wee bit.

To me, where the Linea seemed to be miles ahead of anything else in that price bracket, was the steering feel. It was, like, telling you everything the front tyres were feeling. A good experienced driver can use that to extract a lot more from the car, with similar levels of safety. The steering also felt very precise and quick. Besides all the talk about service question-marks, the car was letdown by the engine, IMO.

[samarjitdhar]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Besides all the talk about service question-marks, the car was letdown by the engine, IMO.

Yup after driving the Vento for around 4 months, the Linea felt awfully unresponsive when starting off from zero. It took my quite a while to reach the power band and then accelerate. One of the reasons, I thought it might not be a good choice for navigating through back to back traffic. The Vento in contrast does very well from the experience I have had till now specially in the atypical slow moving traffic in my city. I still dont drive as aggressively like I used to with the Zen specially when ensuring gaps in traffic ahead are quickly filled as and when they become available because folks have a tendency to just swerve in and out in front of you even if the gap is unbelievably small and those maneuvers will waste 2X time of everybody using the road.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by samarjitdhar

Yup after driving the Vento for around 4 months, the Linea felt awfully unresponsive when starting off from zero.

My experience with such engines has been, that it takes a bit more time to get used to them; to use them effectively. The adaption/learning curve is a bit longer. The Vento and Fluidic Verna are easy to adapt to, which impresses one on their Test Drives (for the Verna, think beyond T-Bhp/enthusiasts). IMO, it is one of the reasons for the success of these cars. It plays an even bigger role when there are many users shifting from Petrol to Diesel.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Poitive

My experience with such engines has been, that it takes a bit more time to get used to them; to use them effectively. The adaption/learning curve is a bit longer. The Vento and Fluidic Verna are easy to adapt to, which impresses one on their Test Drives (for the Verna, think beyond T-Bhp/enthusiasts). IMO, it is one of the reasons for the success of these cars. It plays an even bigger role when there are many users shifting from Petrol to Diesel.

@poitive - you sure haven't lost the flair to put up long posts, have you!

Originally Posted by Poitive

Quite delayed on this thread, Ninja, but I guess you know the reasons.
Congrats again! Have yet to see a Blue Vento on the road, but from your pictures - What a lovely colour!

You must have heard that numerous times, I am sure. One thing I found interesting about the Vento is how it seems to take a rather different look and character with the colour. It happens in all cars, but even more so with the Vento.

Yup - and especially a lot on this color. Initial few days were spent experimenting with how the car looks in different lights during the day & night.

Quite a mix, you started with, Ninja. From a popular hatch to the monstrous Safari!

Would you believe it - if we had to buy a second car today, we still would remain as confused as ever. However the Tata's appeal has gone down a lot - thanks to the multiple reports of their shoddy A$$.

The agreement between you and the lady speaks of the appeal Maruti has built over the years. A lot many people (including some of my friends), just don't want to look elsewhere, unless they really have to. An enviable position to be in for Maruti, and it seems to be frittering it away, by not having a suitable produce mix.

Pretty much. IMO, one of the main reasons the new Verna is doing extremely fine is simply because Maruti doesn't have a good enough car in that segment. People have this concept that Hyundai A$$ is just a tad more costly than Maruti (probably thanks to the ever-reliable Santro) and next option after Maruti is the Hyundai. If only the SX4 had a better engine and slightly better interiors!

Others like Ford and GM (like you mentioned in the Finally! thread), seem to push customers away, but not having suitable arrangements for TD's. Weird, isn't it? To spend so much to get the customers by promotion campaigns and image building exercises, then only to fritter it away for such silly reasons.

Yup - however my visit to the Ford showroom in Pune (when the Fiesta was launched) was pretty good. However what the dealership failed to do, the pricing did it perfectly - push me away!

Your experience at the VW showroom seems to have been much better than others. I too had 2-3 visits to them. Realized that if I let them, they'll make me wait forever. A bit of appropriate handling, and things started moving well. A lot of what one gets is based on how people are handled. Also on having reasonable expectations. Like your 15 minute wait, when the SE is busy is with another customer can be totally understandable, but also be taken by many as unreasonable behavior.

BUB really seems to have won your over, mate. Feeling the experience to be good, despite them playing with your booking. Or maybe it is to do with the low expectations one may have had, with all the talk about poor pre-sales experiences with VW.

Well it is all in the minute things, isn't it? Post my PDI & registration, my car delivery was being delayed for an additional day without any reason. Plus both the sales executive nor his manager's phone was switched off. But immediately the next day both guys call up first thing in the morning, apologising that it was a Ganesh Chaturti holiday and co-incidently both had been caught up in festive activities. Didn't matter if they were lying to me, their actions and apologies were enough to calm me up.

Another such incident - I had paid for the extended warranty but didn't get it along the delivery due to some pending delays at their end. After that I got busy and couldn't collect it for over two months. However the SE kept reminding me once every two weeks and finally couriered me the document. He could have very well let it stay - his job was long done.

However I feel this is BuB in action, and not really VW. Going by the other people's experiences, I feel the rest are improving, but they still have far to go.

Aaah! So it is to the credit of the lady! Now you know whose advice to take!!!

Yup - in fact I would have gone away with black itself when I had it available a month after my booking, but her sense prevailed. Thankfully!

Had read a comment about it not being useful in India. Could you please elaborate on it? What was the surveillance system like and why it wasn't useful in India? (in case it has already been answered, pardon me, as I have only read the first few pages and the last).

It is supposed to detect any motion in the car, when locked. Actually, even I am not really sure on how effective it was in India. Infact I am not even sure if there is any alarm if someone gets in. Didn't really dig into this too much once I got to know I wasn't getting it.

[samarjitdhar]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Had read a comment about it not being useful in India. Could you please elaborate on it? What was the surveillance system like and why it wasn't useful in India? (in case it has already been answered, pardon me, as I have only read the first few pages and the last).

I guess the jury is still out on this. I have the pre-refresh one and hence its present in mine. Agreed its not come into action as of yet but I guess it should give out a nasty wail if someone happened to break the glass to steal something/anything left inside the car by chance provided the car alarm is active. That I think should help somewhat. Its just an extension of the entire car security and alarm system. Though I am not sure if breaking of a glass should automatically set off the alarm even though this surveillance system is not there.

I am never going to ask ninja to run this test case on his car

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by samarjitdhar

I guess the jury is still out on this. I have the pre-refresh one and hence its present in mine. Agreed its not come into action as of yet but I guess it should give out a nasty wail if someone happened to break the glass to steal something/anything left inside the car by chance provided the car alarm is active. That I think should help somewhat. Its just an extension of the entire car security and alarm system. Though I am not sure if breaking of a glass should automatically set off the alarm even though this surveillance system is not there.

I am never going to ask ninja to run this test case on his car

Haha - I think I'll wait and watch what happens if the test is done on a pre-refreshed car and then think of doing the same on mine!

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

@poitive - you sure haven't lost the flair to put up long posts, have you!

Ha ha! You seem to be matching up with your post

Would you believe it - if we had to buy a second car today, we still would remain as confused as ever. However the Tata's appeal has gone down a lot - thanks to the multiple reports of their shoddy A$$.

The more time I spend on the forum, the more I get convinced that one tends to get biased and some opinions just tend to spiral out; based on how it is more convenient to bash some and praise come; in turn often based on popular perceptions. May not be appropriate to elaborate it here.

Pretty much. IMO, one of the main reasons the new Verna is doing extremely fine is simply because Maruti doesn't have a good enough car in that segment.

+1
It also seems that Hyundai has managed to hold that very small amount of premium perception as compared to a Maruti; only very slight though.

Well it is all in the minute things, isn't it?

So true! Also so much to do with the attitude of the people one is interacting with, as you too gave an examples of.

It is supposed to detect any motion in the car, when locked. Actually, even I am not really sure on how effective it was in India. Infact I am not even sure if there is any alarm if someone gets in. Didn't really dig into this too much once I got to know I wasn't getting it.

Originally Posted by samarjitdhar

I guess the jury is still out on this.

Aah! I have had one of those many years back. Eventually was more of a bother than help. A fly inside the car cold mean worrying if it would trigger the alarm. It did so, atleast once, eventually leading to me disabling that part of the system.

But technology might be a lot better now.

[ninjatalli]

Rant Start

1. What is everybody's problem in understanding the simple fact that the Vento (read:European cars) doors do not need to be slammed shut! I am sick of telling people to stop doing that, several times to the same person again and again, still they do not remember. Where does this habit originate? I don't remember Jap cars requiring to be slammed shut. Is it the Indian manufactured lot? All I get in response is a sheepish grin and a sorry, and then they do it again the next time they get in the car again. Friends, office colleagues, all guilty. Thankfully none of the TBhp crowd does it.

2. Honestly I feel there are hidden mini-goblins that come out in the night and play with the tire pressures; many times they even pump air into the tires! I generally get the air checked once in two weeks, mostly at 32psi for all tires and for the last three times I got it checked, at least two (if not more) tires have always shown higher psi figures! And this is when I rigorously get down every time and keep a watch while the air is filled!


rant end

[anantu2001]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Rant Start

1. What is everybody's problem in understanding the simple fact that the Vento (read:European cars) doors do not need to be slammed shut! I am sick of telling people to stop doing that, several times to the same person again and again, still they do not remember. Where does this habit originate? I don't remember Jap cars requiring to be slammed shut. Is it the Indian manufactured lot? All I get in response is a sheepish grin and a sorry, and then they do it again the next time they get in the car again. Friends, office colleagues, all guilty. Thankfully none of the TBhp crowd does it.

rant end

I can understand how you are feeling ninjatalli. Even I feel the same. When will people learn?? My earlier Spark had this problem with the passenger side door. It never used to shut at the first attempt. A little force was required. Now people try the same thing with my Vento. Gets so frustrating. Specially when they smile after doing their job.

Regards,
Anant

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

2. Honestly I feel there are hidden mini-goblins that come out in the night and play with the tire pressures; many times they even pump air into the tires! I generally get the air checked once in two weeks, mostly at 32psi for all tires and for the last three times I got it checked, at least two (if not more) tires have always shown higher psi figures! And this is when I rigorously get down every time and keep a watch while the air is filled!

Tyre Pressure
Tyre pressure changes as the car is used. Usage generates friction and hence heat. The ambient temperature too plays a role. That is why the specified tyre pressure is given as cold tyre pressure - meant to be checked in the morning, before usage.

If you check the cold tyre pressure and then again after a few kms of moderate driving, you may often find a difference between 2-4psi. This may also vary between different tyres in the car (not too sure why this variation happens).

Also, if you checked at 32. Right after that, if you were to check again, it is common for the meter to show 31 (or maybe even 30) and then inflate to 32. Probably due to the very slight loss of air when the nozzle is attached.

I have usually kept the front tyre pressures about 2psi higher in the front on deisel engine cars and it has worked well for me.

Some more rant (though Optra-centric) on tyre pressure here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2674572

[Swanand Inamdar]

Ninja, regarding the 1st point in the rant.. I so relate to that! I always calm myself saying "these guys are probably used to travelling in a truck". I mean, I can understand security walla's doing it, but the so called educated class too? That just doesnt work.

One more reason, I dont stop for the security check in office premises.

[ninjatalli]

@vid6639,
thanks for the correction. Guess the rant was really a rant!

Originally Posted by anantu2001

I can understand how you are feeling ninjatalli. Even I feel the same. When will people learn?? My earlier Spark had this problem with the passenger side door. It never used to shut at the first attempt. A little force was required. Now people try the same thing with my Vento. Gets so frustrating. Specially when they smile after doing their job.

Regards,
Anant

Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar

Ninja, regarding the 1st point in the rant.. I so relate to that! I always calm myself saying "these guys are probably used to travelling in a truck". I mean, I can understand security walla's doing it, but the so called educated class too? That just doesnt work.

One more reason, I dont stop for the security check in office premises.

Yup,
It is quite frustrating to see them do it again and again. And the problem with colleagues doing it - you can't really get angry with them. Atleast with friends I almost lash out - which in many situations makes me the butt of several jokes for the next odd minutes!

Originally Posted by Poitive

Tyre Pressure
Tyre pressure changes as the car is used. Usage generates friction and hence heat. The ambient temperature too plays a role. That is why the specified tyre pressure is given as cold tyre pressure - meant to be checked in the morning, before usage.

If you check the cold tyre pressure and then again after a few kms of moderate driving, you may often find a difference between 2-4psi. This may also vary between different tyres in the car (not too sure why this variation happens).

Also, if you checked at 32. Right after that, if you were to check again, it is common for the meter to show 31 (or maybe even 30) and then inflate to 32. Probably due to the very slight loss of air when the nozzle is attached.

I have usually kept the front tyre pressures about 2psi higher in the front on deisel engine cars and it has worked well for me.

Some more rant (though Optra-centric) on tyre pressure here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2674572

Niiice! Makes sense. But then how many times will we actually do a "cold tyre pressure check", unless of course I get that psi checking device. Hmmm, got to add it to the list (of purchases!)

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Niiice! Makes sense. But then how many times will we actually do a "cold tyre pressure check", unless of course I get that psi checking device. Hmmm, got to add it to the list (of purchases!)

I got one for only a couple of hundred bucks or so a long time back. Was some Taiwanese brand IIRC. Has served me well. But don't use it when I am getting it checked at the regular place.

What I have been following - Moderate usage on a normal day, add about 2psi over cold tyre pressure. Another 1psi for long/fast drives or a warm day.

Also consider the +2psi for the front, since yours too is a diesel. Usual caution with higher pressures is to check the braking/tyre-traction.

[nileshch]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Friends, office colleagues, all guilty. Thankfully none of the TBhp crowd does it.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

It is quite frustrating to see them do it again and again. And the problem with colleagues doing it - you can't really get angry with them.

What to do when the ones banging the doors are family?!

They still think its the old Zen! (which needed some serious push due to a rubber beading issue).

Originally Posted by Poitive

If you check the cold tyre pressure and then again after a few kms of moderate driving, you may often find a difference between 2-4psi. This may also vary between different tyres in the car (not too sure why this variation happens).

I would understand if the tire pressures went up evenly in all tires. But at times, when I have had the tire pressure checked a few days after filling up 34psi in all tires, it varied from 31 psi in one tire to 36 in another!

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by nileshch

I would understand if the tire pressures went up evenly in all tires. But at times, when I have had the tire pressure checked a few days after filling up 34psi in all tires, it varied from 31 psi in one tire to 36 in another!

Tyre pressure increasing with usage/heat is well known. Don't really think there is any doubt in that. With the increased temperature, the air inside expands (heat leads to expansion in most materials), which in turn increases tyre pressure.

I am not too convinced about the reasons for the variations between tyres myself. Some thoughts (or shall I say rant, to borrow from Ninja )about the same:

• Tyres pressure changes due to the heat generated.
• Also due to the leaks - punctures, valves.
• Heating could be different depending on how the brakes touch the disc. That could explain the difference between front and rear tyres (I presume the Vento has discs in front and drums in the rear, which may give an even better explanation for that variation)
• Cornering hard can also produce more heat in some tyres than others.
• A slight under-inflation to start with (or maybe as a result of a very slow puncture/leaking valve) may also lead to the tyre heating more. Under-inflated tyres get heated more easily.
• Very small leakages of air can also happen where the tyre meets the rim. This could vary from tyre to tyre.

Of course, there may be more reasons, which I haven't thought about.

Edit - OT:
In all this talk about the doors banging, the problem I face with the VVS (Optra) is that people shut them too lightly! Often have to slam them again.