[Parm]

the ONLY reason why people buy diesel engine cars in india, is the diesel being cheaper compared to the price of petrol in india!

that too because its subsidised by the govt for Agriculture sector! suppose the govt decides to provide diesel only to tractor, truck and taxi owners and restrict private car owners from diesel, then what?

my argument is that when people are loaded with money and they buy MB, BMW etc in diesel, i never understand it!

if diesel engine was so good and great, M3, R8, SLKs, Golf GTi, McLaren Ferrari, Lambo, etc would have been diesel and not petrol!

[simply_sunny001]

Diesel is a cleaner burning fuel and people around the world are moving towards Diesel, another reason is that in most of countries like UK/US, diesel and petrol are priced similarly unlike india and diesel cars give more or eual mileage.

And gone are those days when diesel technology was considered inferior to Petrol, so the people who are talking about BMW diesel either havnt driven the latest diesel cars or they are not updated on latest technology.

[Parm]

Originally Posted by simply_sunny001

Diesel is a cleaner burning fuel and people around the world are moving towards Diesel, another reason is that in most of countries like UK/US, diesel and petrol are priced similarly unlike india and diesel cars give more or eual mileage.

And gone are those days when diesel technology was considered inferior to Petrol, so the people who are talking about BMW diesel either havnt driven the latest diesel cars or they are not updated on latest technology.

why commercial vehicles like Delhi Transport buses have been converted to CNG from Diesel?

so much for diesel being cleaner!!

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by simply_sunny001

Diesel is a cleaner burning fuel and people around the world are moving towards Diesel, another reason is that in most of countries like UK/US, diesel and petrol are priced similarly unlike india and diesel cars give more or eual mileage.

And gone are those days when diesel technology was considered inferior to Petrol, so the people who are talking about BMW diesel either havnt driven the latest diesel cars or they are not updated on latest technology.

Since you bought in the point of BMW Diesels, I test drove the 530i and 530D back to back and to be honest, there was still a lot to be desired even from a BMW diesel compared to its petrol brethren. There was distinctly more NVH in the diesel, the car felt more front heavy, there was visible turbo lag and when acceleration always came a while after than when I wanted it.

In comparison, the petrol was heaven. Power was there whenever I wanted it, the car felt more nimble and maintaining high revs without being bothered about noise and vibration was never an issue. At idle, it was dead silent and it was so rev happy, maintaining 7k+ rpm was child's play.

The only reason why anyone would buy a 530D over a 530i appears to be fuel economy. I can't think of any other reason. Also to be honest if you are such a penny pincher, why buy a bimmer in the first place! Totally ridiculous.

[rubin2006]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Since you bought in the point of BMW Diesels, I test drove the 530i and 530D back to back and to be honest, there was still a lot to be desired even from a BMW diesel compared to its petrol brethren. There was distinctly more NVH in the diesel, the car felt more front heavy, there was visible turbo lag and when acceleration always came a while after than when I wanted it.

In comparison, the petrol was heaven. Power was there whenever I wanted it, the car felt more nimble and maintaining high revs without being bothered about noise and vibration was never an issue. At idle, it was dead silent and it was so rev happy, maintaining 7k+ rpm was child's play.

The only reason why anyone would buy a 530D over a 530i appears to be fuel economy. I can't think of any other reason. Also to be honest if you are such a penny pincher, why buy a bimmer in the first place! Totally ridiculous.

oh so you mean all those who have diesels ( luxury sedans on the forum are penny pincher's ) i know now you will not accept what u just said , and u might have 100 reasons to justify what you said

But thanks for enhancing my knowledge about luxury diesels , it seems
me and many others on the forum were living on fools paradise
who already bought or were buying 3 , 5 series X5 Q7 ,Q5 montero Toureg
Mercedes S320 CDI E 280 cdi Ect ect

Your test drive suggests that BMW and Merc and Audi should immediately stop selling diesels as they are good for generators only ( because buying diesels is totally ridiculos according to you )

And what should i say about all they auto journalists who charge us money for a magazines and tell us to buy diesel i suppose they also know nothing

And last but not the least those who buy BIMMERS or Mercs understands money better than most this is my presumptions , I might be wrong again

Its just that if you get same or better performance with more economy there is nothing to be " penny pincher " about it

some cars are diesel but genuinely as good or better than there petrol counter parts

[rubin2006]

This was posted on bimmer forum from a test report between petrol and diesel

You would expect this high-pressure turbodiesel to win the fuel consumption contest. It does, hands down, achieving 37.2mpg in the EC Urban cycle, 10mpg better than the petrol model (and the advantage is even greater on long cruises): allegedly, the 13.9-gallon tank can get you from Calais to Nice with almost two gallons to spare.

You might also expect the 320d to produce lower emissions; it does that handsomely and also soundly beats its German rivals in the process.

If you expected the petrol model to be the victor in outright performance, you would be disappointed, apart from a nominal 1mph advantage in top speed. It is slower in the ritual sprint to 60mph, but above all loses out in the mid-range, the crucial factor in the real world. Faced with a series of uphill, tight bends, the 320d requires far fewer gearchanges and is quicker overall.

The key to the 320d's impressive performance is that thumping torque, which trumps even Volkswagen's impressive new TDi.

And now this is true i dont think any one's buying a diesel would a doing a ridiculous thing ( according to you ) buying a diesel just because he is " Penny pincher "

[simply_sunny001]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Since you bought in the point of BMW Diesels, I test drove the 530i and 530D back to back and to be honest, there was still a lot to be desired even from a BMW diesel compared to its petrol brethren. There was distinctly more NVH in the diesel, the car felt more front heavy, there was visible turbo lag and when acceleration always came a while after than when I wanted it.

I still respect your judgement of the above said cars based on your TD but that puts lot of existing beemer owners who have bought the diesels into a different perspective.

There can be reasons for this :
Either they dint TD both,
Either they were less knowledgeable,
Either they all were penny pichers,

i am a bit confused here as everyday i see a huge flurry of beemers and mercs around me in streets (though i dont own any), still i see more diesels compared to petrol and buddy so many people cant be wrong.

Originally Posted by Parm

why commercial vehicles like Delhi Transport buses have been converted to CNG from Diesel?

so much for diesel being cleaner!!

Oh yaar Parm,

Dont be so harsh in comparing the diesel engines used and their characteristics in buses and beemers.

Its not a public transport thread and there are a lot of differences. so lets talk about diesel beemers please.

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by simply_sunny001

I still respect your judgement of the above said cars based on your TD but that puts lot of existing beemer owners who have bought the diesels into a different perspective.

There can be reasons for this :
Either they dint TD both,
Either they were less knowledgeable,
Either they all were penny pichers,

i am a bit confused here as everyday i see a huge flurry of beemers and mercs around me in streets (though i dont own any), still i see more diesels compared to petrol and buddy so many people cant be wrong.

I asked the very same question to the sales person who was insisting that I consider the diesel after both the test drives. I asked her why should I consider since clearly I was so much more impressed by the petrol over the diesel and the fact that the petrol was cheaper than the diesel by around 75k (56.7lacs vs 57.5lacs). Her only justification were fuel costs, resale value and the fact that 95% of people who buy BMWs in India get a diesel. None of these made any kind of sense to me!

Why lose the refinement, the instantaneous power delivery and the rev happy engine for just a few rupees of fuel costs!

[fiery enzyme]

Originally Posted by ThE Godfather

Even if it is a "show off" why should not he? Its a proud for a youngster of 24 to earn 2lacs per month on his own. How many you know are earning even 50k per month?

I did not say anything on this thread , but then you just had to go ahead and say that don't you?

Do you know how many people make less than 10 rupees a day in this country?

I don't even want to get into this conversation with you, but simply put hopw much I make is not something I would use as a benchmark to judge myself by or take pride in of.

India has more than a billion people, and it has a lot of people who have made it on their own.

[ThE Godfather]

Agreed Buddy. But my point was people were taking this thread to some other direction. It was'nt a show off at all. As I wrote in previous replies, thats its easy for anyone to spend one time, but spending again and again wont be economic for everyone. So was the reason I put up the question this way, so before someone jumps in with a suggestion, he should know that how much he can spend.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by Parm

why commercial vehicles like Delhi Transport buses have been converted to CNG from Diesel?

so much for diesel being cleaner!!

This was trying to reduce particulate emissions an CNG is even cleaner.

Just to remind all a Delhi based NGO approached the courts to ban all diesel vehicles since they were more polluting than petrols. The courts ruled that the govt. can specify the specs and not the technology. the switch from ?? to CNG for public transport came out of the same litigation.

There is another twist to this. By some who may know it was part of the Maruti - Tata tussle since the PIL was filed suspiciously at the time of the launch of the Indica!

It is true that Diesel technology is now at leat as good as petrol. The emissions are different - SPM and NOx in diesels, CO etc. in petrols.

[amitk26]

Diesel or petrol it all depends on what kind of performance you want for a race track may be petrol + nitro boost , but on real world crowded streets you need a lot of torque for stop and go traffic and there Diesel scores.

About the test drive if you drive a Diesel car like petrol you will never enjoy it does not need to be revved up so much.

Your perception for Diesel is for penny pincher will go for a toss if you look at European market. Even in India initial high cost of Diesel car ( more tax in lieu of subsidy of fuel by government ) offset the total cost of fuel during ownership until you drive it like a taxi.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

I asked her why should I consider since clearly I was so much more impressed by the petrol over the diesel and the fact that the petrol was cheaper than the diesel by around 75k (56.7lacs vs 57.5lacs). Her only justification were fuel costs, resale value and the fact that 95% of people who buy BMWs in India get a diesel. None of these made any kind of sense to me!

She was giving you sound advice.

1. European diesels are way more fuel efficient than the petrols. Think of 60 - 100% more fuel efficiency with Mercs & BMWs

2. They are quicker : The 320d is faster than the 320i, and the 530d to the 530i, E280CDI to the E280 petrol and teh C220 to the C200K.

3. With all that torque, driveability is far superior too.

4. Way more robust : European diesels are way more reliable in the longer-term than Euro petrols.

5. Euro diesels run just as well on regular diesel. Some Euro petrols require high octane fuel.

6. Resale : Any difference in acquisition price is more than taken care of at the time of resale. Example : A 2 year old 37 lakh rupee 325i goes for 18 lakh rupees in the used market, compared to 23 lakhs for the 320d.

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by GTO

She was giving you sound advice.

1. European diesels are way more fuel efficient than the petrols. Think of 60 - 100% more fuel efficiency with Mercs & BMWs

2. They are quicker : The 320d is faster than the 320i, and the 530d to the 530i, E280CDI to the E280 petrol and teh C220 to the C200K.

3. With all that torque, driveability is far superior too.

4. Way more robust : European diesels are way more reliable in the longer-term than Euro petrols.

5. Euro diesels run just as well on regular diesel. Some Euro petrols require high octane fuel.

6. Resale : Any difference in acquisition price is more than taken care of at the time of resale. Example : A 2 year old 37 lakh rupee 325i goes for 18 lakh rupees in the used market, compared to 23 lakhs for the 320d.

I totally agree on resale, fuel efficiency bits with you. I also agree that the 320i is way slower than the 320d. But then the price of the 320d is closer to the 325i than the 320i. (38lacs OTR for 320d vs 40lacs OTR for 325i and 33.3 lacs for 320i with scope for massive discounts).

Also having driven the 530i and 530d back to back, there's no way in hell that the 530d is faster than the 530i. The diesel definitely has a stronger midrange and the torque wave when it hits is insane, however either in a straight line drag or around corners, the petrol will leave the diesel in the dust.

The official figures of the 530i are 6.7 sec to 100, 26.4 sec to 1000m and 250kph(electronically limited) top speed. The corresponding figures for the 530d are 6.8 sec, 27.1 sec and 248kph.

Also where does one get a 325i for 18lacs? Thats a steal . So far I've only come across a early 2008 car done 22k here for 29 which is definitely not worth it IMHO.

[Sahil]

Reignofchaos- the 530i gets no where close to the figured claimed on our fuel. I have smoked a friend in a 530i on multiple occasions with my 525d. So rest assured the 530d would blow it out the water.