[HondaSport]

Thinking of fitting a throttle tuning box on my Honda City 1.5 L NA petrol. Very spirited discussion on this thread almost 7-8 years back and requesting suggestions from team bhp community in 2024

[HondaSport]

Folks, some context for my previous post on throttle tuning box. My City is Stage 1 remapped and I guess that needs to be considered whether throttle tuning will add on to the responsiveness.

[Bsilver]

Originally Posted by HondaSport

Folks, some context for my previous post on throttle tuning box. My City is Stage 1 remapped and I guess that needs to be considered whether throttle tuning will add on to the responsiveness.

If it is already remapped, being a NA, the tuner would not have boost parameter to play around with, so they would have definitely done something to the throttle. So I guess it already has the best responsiveness as of now. Usually many people tune their NA for a better throttle response, and hence another tune on top of a tune is not needed at all. Just tell your tuner to improve the response even more, if you really feel the need to do so.

Happy Motoring!

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I’ve experimented... found that the simplest of ECU upgrades... lot cheaper...

...throttle response... These boxes won’t fix that, a simple ECU tune will.

....dealers won’t touch your car if you bring it in with a modification. You will have to pay them to undo the modification before they will even look at your car!

I remain sceptical of pedal-tuning devices, because theoretically I can't see how they do what is being claimed - BUT so many other formerly sceptical people in enthusiast forums are claiming great results - often in terms of response AND economy (which sounds impossible) that I suspect I've just been missing some key on the side of technical understanding.

A friend /bhpian in Bangalore has just ordered one in from Australia for his Thar CRDe, and if he gets convincing results (should know by next week), will probably order one for myself.

First point: For ₹6500 (loads cheaper there than from Indian re-branders), it is certainly a few times less then what any tuner in India will charge for the simplest remap afaik, am seeing pricing around ₹30k generally.

Secondly, I would say that when a factory map has deliberately slowed down the max throttle input speed to reduce emissions and/or increase smoothness, then if this device actually boosts the speed of the output signal ramp-up to ECU, it should have similar effect as a remap, just sort of "paddling from the other side of the pond" so to speak:

A remap is taking correct, unaltered input data (in volts generally) from stock sensors and is telling the ECU to do different things from stock with the outputs, in terms of injector pulse width, boost level, etc, under various speeds/ loads/ conditions.

Whereas these plug-n-play/ piggyback things are NOT altering ECU outputs, but rather inputs (sensor outputs), in order to trick the ECU into thinking (for example) fuel rail pressure is lower than actual, such that injector pulse-width must be increased to compensate. Which because the fuel rail pressure in reality is NOT low, ultimately adds more fuel/ generates more power.

Does the pedal-tuner, as some here suggested, only make the ECU think the pedal is down further than it really is (which on my Bosch system I could more easily/cheaply manage by just rotating the sensor in its mounting slots!)?

OR is it actually generating/ introducing a more sophisticated curve/map - for example, one that would sense the speed at which operator was applying throttle, and generate a more aggressive/ quick-ramp voltage output curve in order to perk up response when pedal action was quick, and perhaps to flatten/moderate that curve when applied slow, for the sake of economy (users ARE claiming FE improvements on some of these)?

I am assuming the latter, judging by the results many people see to have and vague inferences in product literature.

Your last paragraph to me actually weighs in favor of these piggy-backs, as the modifications are not hard-programmed as in a remap, and can be undone/ removed literally with a few minutes and the snap of a few connectors pre-service.

I also like the easy user tuneability, whether via provided keypad controls or a phone app, something no remap can provide; AND the fact that in many/most cases such a device could be removed and installed on one's next vehicle - if any re-flash required, at any rate much cheaper than a full-ECU remap, and with no down-time for your vehicle.

What I'd really like to see would be 4-5 channel piggyback tuning boxes which could read engine speed and alter the signals from MAF/Boost/Throttle position, rail pressure sensors and perhaps output to turbo controller, such that a lot more tuning could be tweaked/optimized, especially by user trial and error. Granted this would be more expensive than the typical 1-2 channel ones, but it would have the potential for so much greater /more customized and still reversible results.

I asked by message to a couple of the well-known Indian remappers whether they actually dyno-test and tune according to specific customer requirements, or whether they only flash widely available predefined perfomance maps into ECU's. I didn't get an answer on that point from either - which I think makes the answer clear enough.

Even if they WERE putting in the time/effort for custom dyno tunes, I am sure they have no means of testing for fuel efficiency, which to me at this stage is very important.

Most guys going for tunes only want more power, and honestly for that the one-channel fuel rail trick can yield impressive enough results, on a CRD anyway.

-Eric