[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by sandeepmdas

I am under the impression that this drawback can be eliminated by installing high-end air filters like K&N or Green Cotton? Appreciate your thoughts on this.

it depends on the car and the fuel being used. but yes, installing a performance filter does reduce it to a certain extent by adding more air, while the tuning box ads more fuel. combustion happens more efficiently.

[Amartya]

Guys, in my humble opinion, steering clear of tuning boxes is the way to go. Manufacturer's test their car (and engines) over a million miles and although they are conservative when it comes to tuning, it is with good reason.

Just think about it, if more power was this easy, why would any manufacturer go about it the hard way and redesign engines? I also think that the smoke issue one reads about (whether it is fixed by adding a different filter is immaterial) but I am sure it expels more particulate matter from the exhaust. That, has to be bad for the environment too, and I am not sure whether the cars remain emissions compliant or not.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by Amartya

Guys, in my humble opinion, steering clear of tuning boxes is the way to go. Manufacturer's test their car (and engines) over a million miles and although they are conservative when it comes to tuning, it is with good reason.

Just think about it, if more power was this easy, why would any manufacturer go about it the hard way and redesign engines? I also think that the smoke issue one reads about (whether it is fixed by adding a different filter is immaterial) but I am sure it expels more particulate matter from the exhaust. That, has to be bad for the environment too, and I am not sure whether the cars remain emissions compliant or not.

You are right. If extracting higher BHP & torque were so easy, Ferrari/ Lambo won't design 12 cylinder 6000 cc engines. I think extractions from small engines, especially 1.3 L engines DO take a heavy toll on the life of the engines. And all that extra torque? Won't it burn clutch plates and chew up drive-shafts which were designed for lesser BHP/torque ratings? Also I always wonder about the guys who spend a few lakhs on stock cars on performance mods which result in saving just 3/4 seconds on a dash to 100 kph or increasing the top speed by 20-25 kph. Is it worth it? Isn't it better to buy a powerfull car upfront rather than do all these mods on a smaller car?

[CPH]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

You are right. If extracting higher BHP & torque were so easy, Ferrari/ Lambo won't design 12 cylinder 6000 cc engines. I think extractions from small engines, especially 1.3 L engines DO take a heavy toll on the life of the engines. And all that extra torque? Won't it burn clutch plates and chew up drive-shafts which were designed for lesser BHP/torque ratings? Also I always wonder about the guys who spend a few lakhs on stock cars on performance mods which result in saving just 3/4 seconds on a dash to 100 kph or increasing the top speed by 20-25 kph. Is it worth it? Isn't it better to buy a powerfull car upfront rather than do all these mods on a smaller car?

I agrre that the tuning boxes aren't the way to go. Just plonking in a tuning box is not performance tuning.

Smoking is bad no matter how little it is. If excessive smoking is experienced then this means long term turbo failure because the bearings will be killed eventually.

On the wear rate of the more powerful variants I can speak from experience with many cars. The 1.3MJD engine comes in different configrations. The lowest power is 70bhp. Otherwise they come as 75, 90, 95 and 105bhp. And Fiat has got a turbo for it on the shelf getting the power around 120bhp out of the box. The engine is capable of quite a bit more.

The T-Jet engine from the Fiat is rated at 120bhp, but all engines have been producing from 130bhp up. The Abarth engines are 135, 155, 180 and over 200bhp. Much more power can be extracted safely from the units.

The reason why manufacturers limit the power has many reasons, which have been covered in other threads.

Any Diesel engine we have modified in whatever way (the only thing I wouldn't do is a tuning box) have used less fuel despite the power increase. We have done thosands.

Proper tuning does not affect emission laws (otherwise companies like Ruf, Abt, Hamann, Schnitzer to name a few would not exist by law). Neither does it affect life expectancy and usually improves fel consumption.

But proper tuning requires proper mapping, which the tuning box is never capable of.

[.anshuman]

^^ Unfortunately we do not have any reliable diesel tuners here in the North. Despite my love for the more and more Torque i have to live with the stock tune in my GP. When i bought the car i was sure about getting a tuning box but seeing so many instances of turbo failures in Swifts and Palios, i never got one for me.

@CPH: Is there is any other reliable method to get a diesel car tuned? Consider the fact that we cannot get customised tuning on a dyno here.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

^^ Unfortunately we do not have any reliable diesel tuners here in the North. Despite my love for the more and more Torque i have to live with the stock tune in my GP. When i bought the car i was sure about getting a tuning box but seeing so many instances of turbo failures in Swifts and Palios, i never got one for me.

@CPH: Is there is any other reliable method to get a diesel car tuned? Consider the fact that we cannot get customised tuning on a dyno here.

I am working on the solution.

[manjo]

Originally Posted by CPH

I am working on the solution.

Do let me know too..
I am also looking for a performance upgrade as my punto has already crossed 15K. And somehow i dont like Pete's..
Till now completely stock.

[MihirC]

Could anyone tell me what is this 2nd setting on petes box?? how does it work. I guess the greates ttadvantage of petes would be the abillity to be removed and installed iin minutes. How easy is remapping petrol/diesel engines. Does the ECU need to be flushed back to stock mapping while giving for service?

[CPH]

Originally Posted by MihirC

Could anyone tell me what is this 2nd setting on petes box?? how does it work. I guess the greates ttadvantage of petes would be the abillity to be removed and installed iin minutes. How easy is remapping petrol/diesel engines. Does the ECU need to be flushed back to stock mapping while giving for service?

When going for a service the ECU doesn't need to be flashed back to stock. Usually the dealers aren't interested in discovering re-maps and modifications as they want to keep their customers, but this is not what your question was about.

The advantage of a custom re-map is that the setting is optimised and not fixed to several generic maps, which usually have some draw backs. Excessive smoking will kill long term the turbo. Where the limit is can not be determined on the settings of the box as every engine reacts different despite the fact that they might have been produced within the same hour on the same machine.

It now gets even worse when DPFs are fitted, which do not let detect any smoking after the turbo.

[.anshuman]

Recently a fellow BHPian's car suffered a premature engine failure, he had a tuning box installed in his Elantra. The Engine died a premature death at just 75000kms, extremely rare for an Elantra, whose Detroit Diesel sourced engine is believed to have a Engine life upwards of 2lac kms. Engine overhaul in a Diesel car is very expensive job, he got an estimate of Rs.2,80,000.

[Vajra]

Comrades,

I just picked up a Linea MJD thats done 10k and is 9 months old.

It has the 4 year warranty.

I plan to drive it down from Pune to Delhi at month end.

Should I pete it before the drive? should I pete it at all?

If so, where in Pune is recommended. Any peted linea stories I should know?

I invite your suggestions...

[Akshay1234]

Pete it before your drive, that way you will enjoy the car much more on your drive. Speak to Pete's and if they have a remap for the car that would be a better option.

But ive had the Pete's box on my Innova for 70k kms now and its still running just fine.

Just remove the box before a service, its a 5 min job and the service people will never know your box was there. So your warranty will not be void.

Get a green stock replacement filter too.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by Vajra

Comrades,

I just picked up a Linea MJD thats done 10k and is 9 months old.

It has the 4 year warranty.

I plan to drive it down from Pune to Delhi at month end.

Should I pete it before the drive? should I pete it at all?

If so, where in Pune is recommended. Any peted linea stories I should know?

I invite your suggestions...

Thr re-map is the professional way. The tuning box will never be as good as a re-map. If you consider further upgrades then you need a re-map.

I would not drive with the tuning box or any modification other then what is on the car already. If you run into problems on your first ride then it could be made worse with the modification. Get to know your car first.

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Pete it before your drive, that way you will enjoy the car much more on your drive. Speak to Pete's and if they have a remap for the car that would be a better option.

But ive had the Pete's box on my Innova for 70k kms now and its still running just fine.

Just remove the box before a service, its a 5 min job and the service people will never know your box was there. So your warranty will not be void.

Get a green stock replacement filter too.

First of all the dealer is not the manufacturer. Dealers do not bother whether you have modifications unless they are manufacturer's own.

A tuning box can be detected when a professional examiner is used by the manufacturer. It is not as simple as most people think.

The ECU has got a data logger, which gives clues. And the examiners are not stupid either.

Either be prepared to lose the warranty or do not modify in the warranty period.

[Vajra]

CPH and Akshay,

Couldn't ask for better inputs!

Though totally divergent

many thanks for your time. Will take your advice CPH and fiddle with the car a few months down the line.

Does anyone know if I add an amp and change the stock speakers, would the warranty hold?

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by CPH

First of all the dealer is not the manufacturer. Dealers do not bother whether you have modifications unless they are manufacturer's own.

A tuning box can be detected when a professional examiner is used by the manufacturer. It is not as simple as most people think.

The ECU has got a data logger, which gives clues. And the examiners are not stupid either.

Either be prepared to lose the warranty or do not modify in the warranty period.

Ah but most Dealers here tell customers the warranty is void with tiny things like an aftermarket stereo.

Agreed it can be detected. But then again, I dont think a professional examiner will be used by the manufacturer unless something really, really serious goes wrong.

I dont think warranty would be lost. A good part of it depends on your relationship with the dealer.

As for tuning box vs remap. I know youve been in this business since before I was born, so I respect your views completely and have learnt from your posts. So I would take a remap over a box, but if a remap is not available (im not implying its not available in this case) I dont think I would hesitate to take a box, considering my experience with one.