ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

[KSM-Vtec]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

oil and other stuffs are always costly at fuel bunks. mostly they sell @mrp.
in city you will find hell lot of shops which sell only oils. the profit margin in oil is very high. also the prices keeps on changing.

if you buy at fuel bunk they wont spare their profit margin for you. but these small shops do as they are keen on clearing their stocks.

Agree with you 100%. Its the same here in mumbai.

[shabahmad]

It was 4th service for my WagonR and time to change the Oil. So went to newly opened MASS in Hadapsar. He suggested using MGA oil which is 20W30. Which i strongly opposed and they allowed to provide oil of my choice. Went to city to search Shell Helix Super but no found no body stocks Shell oil now a day. Found helix ultra but its cost is high, every shop ia trying to give Castrol Magantec or GTX to me, at last went to Shell Pump and purchase Helix Super 15W40 @ 915/4 ltr from them.

Below is the update on some oil stocks and shops selling them for 4ltr.
Mobil1: Gyani Oil (Near Modern Bakery) Nana Peth: 3500 Rs.
Shell Helix Ultra(5W50): M S Oil Coorporation, laxmi Road, Nana peth: 2800 Rs.
Syntium 5000: (Not remembering the shop name) Its below Maruti Spares shop, Near Ornella High School, Nana Peth: 2900 Rs.

These are asking prices; as I am not interested to buy Synthetic so didn’t bargain.

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by shabahmad

It was 4th service for my WagonR and time to change the Oil. So went to newly opened MASS in Hadapsar. He suggested using MGA oil which is 20W30. Which i strongly opposed and they allowed to provide oil of my choice. Went to city to search Shell Helix Super but no found no body stocks Shell oil now a day. Found helix ultra but its cost is high, every shop ia trying to give Castrol Magantec or GTX to me, at last went to Shell Pump and purchase Helix Super 15W40 @ 915/4 ltr from them.

Below is the update on some oil stocks and shops selling them for 4ltr.
Mobil1: Gyani Oil (Near Modern Bakery) Nana Peth: 3500 Rs.
Shell Helix Ultra(5W50): M S Oil Coorporation, laxmi Road, Nana peth: 2800 Rs.
Syntium 5000: (Not remembering the shop name) Its below Maruti Spares shop, Near Ornella High School, Nana Peth: 2900 Rs.

These are asking prices; as I am not interested to buy Synthetic so didn’t bargain.

my car, the MASS at wakad puts on shell oil. 20W40.
MOBIL1 at gyani was 3200rs when i got my petronas can from him on this Thursday. syntium prices have increased enormously. god know what they are upto. earlier mrp of syn 5000 was 2950. now its 3450rs.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by shabahmad

every shop ia trying to give Castrol Magantec or GTX to me, at last went to Shell Pump and purchase Helix Super 15W40 @ 915/4 ltr from them.

Just curious, why did you not want the Castrol oils? I know that Magnatec would cost around Rs 1200/4litres, but it is also higher specced than the Shell. The GTX is probably of the same spec, same price as the one you bought. What made you opt for Shell?

[sandeep108]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I appreciate the compliment! It truly is one because if you had really cared to read all that I have said on this thread, you will find that I am making a strong case for either following manufacturer recommendations religiously - including the inconvenient parts such as severe service conditions for more frequent oil changes - or exceeding these, based on decades long experience, for longer reliable engine life. Even for the referred Honda car, I can assure you, based on personal experience, that if you went and asked for a change to a Honda supplied oil - synth these days - at 1000kms, you will not be told that this change will void the warranty. And this, even for a Japan built CBU, like the one I had. All Honda wants is that you use their oil! And if the manufacturer recommended synth, I would use it, and throw it away in 6 months, if my environment was severe - as in, the usual stop start cycle that most Indians have to suffer in the cities. The high cost of doing this is part of the high cost of buying an expensive car.
@the dipstick comment - I disagree, the dipstick is the most reliable measurement, if taken in the manner in the manual. Usually done on a hot engine, 10 minutes after shut down to allow the oil to first drain back fully into the sump. Please see my extensive posts on this excess engine oil subject in another post. The only thing that you may want to check about the dipstick on a onetime basis is if your engine has been installed with a wrong dipstick - has been known to happen. Easy to check, compare it with that on another car with the same engine and if it has the same length, that error factor is ruled out. The reason for overfilling is because the old oil has not been fully drained out, or the garage adding that little bit more for good luck! More on this issue on the other thread.

On one hand you say to follow mfr's recommendations, then turn around and say you should ignore that and change to mfr approved oil, no matter what make of engine car at 1k km so that because they want you to? So no matter what make of car or engine, everybody must change oil at 1k km? I think you are living in old age of premier padmini. You are really confusing.

If honda says not to change first oil before 5k km due to special additives, I should ignore them follow your advice and put in normal honda oil? So nobody will say anything in case of premature engine failure or poor FE because it has not sett properly? Then why not castrol or shell oil? Are they inferior oils to idemitsu? Have you chemically tested the first engine oil to back up what you say?

All I suggest is follow mfr recommendations, unless your driving / conditions are very abnormal.

Also changing oil before it is really required is a tremendous strain on the environment. More and more modern cars are being fitted with oil change calculation systems based on time/engine rpms/load, etc. to ensure oil is now changed at optimised intervals rather than general intervals of 5k / 10k km, etc.

[Sawyer]

With respect, you are confused because you are seeing my posts in isolation. I can't help you if you choose to do that. I also realize that the format of forum encourages you to do what you are doing.

[Jaggu]

Honda doesnt have any special additives in oil, they use plain mineral oil from Idemetsu. You can safely change oil and filter at 1k kms for best results. Currently Honda has started offering synthetic oils at dealership, though am not sure which brand it is.

Ideally shift to synthetics by 5k kms for a petrol engine, to help the engine running in.

[sgiitk]

@Sawyer: Firstly Magnatec is API/SM and is a semi synthetic, while the Shell oil is mineral and API/SL.

Also, any meddling with the oil change interval should only be done after the warranty period is over, not before.

This is why I say, "Is the current 2+2 extended warranty a benefit scheme for the dealer ships? How many cars have you seen having breakdowns in the drive train in under 80,000 km (virtually none)". The 'Extended Warranty' normally covers only the drive train. The Extended warranty forces you to follow their schedule for four years.

[Sawyer]

It is not semi synthetic, Castrol just says it is made with synthetic technology. Which to my marketing mind is just hot air. Quite honestly, I do not know what semi synthetic means, btw. Do you? It would be nice to know.
PS: It also claims to have intelligent molecules. The Nobel prize for the first physicist to discover an intelligent molecule is still to be given!!!

[sandeep108]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Honda doesnt have any special additives in oil, they use plain mineral oil from Idemetsu. You can safely change oil and filter at 1k kms for best results. Currently Honda has started offering synthetic oils at dealership, though am not sure which brand it is.

Ideally shift to synthetics by 5k kms for a petrol engine, to help the engine running in.

My only point is that generally it would be better to follow mfr recommendations.
@Jaggu: Honda manual specifically states that first engine oil contains special additives to help complete the reduced friction of the pistons, enables proper set in of the engine components and should not be changed before 5k km. Now you and Sawyer are advising changing the oil with normal idemitsu at 1k km, which is against mfr recommendation. I feel this is not right. Since you are a mod you ought to know better and read the context of the posts. Of course I know the normal idemitsu does not contain special additives.

Anyway each to his/her own, I will not respond further.

[Sawyer]

Jaggu, I knew you would be pushing a hot button with your post! Sandeep, you are on a thread that is devoted to how to exceed manufacturer recommendations, in case you hadn't realized it already!!
PS: And Sandeep, I wish you would read what people are saying before shooting off posts. Where have I advised using mineral oil at 1k in a car that is now supposed to come with a synth as factory fill?

[shabahmad]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

MOBIL1 at gyani was 3200rs when i got my petronas can from him on this Thursday. syntium prices have increased enormously. god know what they are upto. earlier mrp of syn 5000 was 2950. now its 3450rs.

I also went to gyani on Friday evening, Initally he quoted 3800 rs for Mobil1 and then came down to 3500. He didnt have syntium 3000 (also gave your reference) The other shop which has syntium 5000 is of 2900Rs MRP. As i didnt want syntetic so didn't bargain.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Just curious, why did you not want the Castrol oils?

Nothing against Castrol

What made you opt for Shell?

Its My trust with Shell products from last 1 year.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by shabahmad

Nothing against Castrol

Its My trust with Shell products from last 1 year.

Thanks! A classic example of how brands exploit human nature. Both products are essentially the same, and yet, you prefer Shell. Just as some others would swear by Castrol! For no scientific reason, and building these preferences is how marketers earn a living. Now if that is a living honestly earned or not is a subject not for TBHP!

[Seeler_Rebeiro]

Hi all,
I have a planned maintenance service on my Palio Stile 1.6 (Petrol) ,and I intend to move from mineral to fully synthetic oil.
1) Any brand recommendations ?
2) Any thing I need to be aware of while this is being done - besides flush + oil filter change

Lastly (anyone, but perhaps Sawyer can best help), I was at a petrol station about 4 weeks ago, and was in queue to fill up my petrol tank. The guy at the station offered to check oil levels. The engine was hot but was shut down for about 5 mins, and he showed me the dipstick showing less oil. He then convinced me to top up by 1/2 a litre, which I did. A few days ago, I read the article about excess engine oil and I went down and checked my oil level (cold engine). It was above the max level on the dipstick.
Should I be very concerned ? Should I straight away head for the oil change ?

[Sawyer]

@ Seeler - When I was into synthetics, I stuck to Mobil 1. No scientific reasons, just brand recognition. Some posts earlier here would suggest Shell to be better value. Just be sure it is not spurious is what I would say of any of the synthetics, at those price points, it is a temptation for that "industry". And if they are genuine, I would think that for your application, all would serve just as well.
If your old oil is drained in the right way, to get the last drop out, I do not believe that you need a flush either.
The way to check the oil level usually is the way you checked it at the petrol station, but I would wait for ten full minutes after turning the ignition off to be sure that all of it drains backs into the sump before checking the level on the stick. But the authority on this finally is what is written in your manual. If the method recommended by the manual reveals excess oil, head for the oil change right away.
PS: My experience on all my cars in the last ten years has been that they never needed topping up between changes. Of course, I change the oil every 6 months, regardless of distance covered.