ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Sawyer · 27th August 2009, 11:08

I get it from Hindustan Oil, their distributor near the Corporation, off JM road. He has a high turnover, so the stocks are fresh. Usually. Last month I got a 4l bottle of Magnatec for around Rs 1200, May 09 manufacture.

comfortablynumb · 27th August 2009, 11:18

Thanks. One last question - Will I need an engine flush to remove all traces of the previous VS MAX oil, before putting in the Mobil/Magnatec oil?

Sawyer · 27th August 2009, 11:28

Nope. I do not even recommend it for a switch to synthetic, because you want to minimize the number of unknowns you introduce into the heart of your car. And, your next worry would be, has the flush all been drained!
But it is important to ensure full drainage and that usually means hanging around! The trick is to get the sump nut off as soon as you get there, while the oil is hot, and drains easily. And to then stand there till the flow has come down to the slow drops phase, for up to ten minutes in that phase. And make sure that the same thing is done about the unscrewed filter opening. And then wait till the oil you bring is measured and poured out. It is usually by this time that I wander off.
If you do all this, you don't need to chance the flush. Also, if you are on a 6 monthly change regime, that minimizes the need for a flush too. Finally, use the money you save on that elsewhere!

DieselFan · 27th August 2009, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by comfortablynumb

Thanks. One last question - Will I need an engine flush to remove all traces of the previous VS MAX oil, before putting in the Mobil/Magnatec oil?

This again depends on how much your car has run on mineral oil. if it is more than 20 K kms then there would be a definite build up of carbon inside the engine and is advisable to flush the engine before moving into synthetic or semi-synthetic oil as these oils have more detergent than the mineral oils and will result in Mobil or Magnetec getting contaminated with carbon particles and force you to change the oil much before 10K kms.

amitwadhwa · 27th August 2009, 13:56

My Verna is at almost 18k kms now, and I have been reading up on this forum about synthetic oils used in the engine. I would like to go in for this.
I spoke to a "senior-most" service advisor of Advaith Hyundai on outer ring road in Bangalore. They said I will have to bring my own oil and they have no problems putting it in for me (they don't stock it). It will also not void my warranty. Or they can put "additives" alongwith the regular mineral oil to make it perform just like synthetic oil (That's rubbish isn't it ?). But I will not be allowed anywhere near my car during servicing (No exceptions).

1. Should I just give them 5.3 Litres of expensive synthetic oil and trust them to fill it in ?
2. The advisor said I need to bring 40W50 grade of oil. Is that alright ? If not, what grade should I be putting in ?

3. Would shell petrol bunks at BLR stock this synthetic oil ? Any particular shell oil to be put in ?

4. Will they have that flush oil available or is it recommended that I take my own ?

I still have a week before giving my car in for the 3rd free service, so any thoughts on this would be highly appreciated. Thanks a lot!

Oh.. and, its a Verna CRDi with ABS (Sep. 2008). I do about 15-1600 kms a month on this car of which about 300-400 is highways doing about 120-140kph.

Amit

Gansan · 27th August 2009, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by amitwadhwa

2. The advisor said I need to bring 40W50 grade of oil. Is that alright ? If not, what grade should I be putting in ?

40W50 grade? I think the Shell Helix Ultra is 10W50 and it is full synth. And you should be able to watch the oil change. Ensure the old oil is completely drained.

Sawyer · 27th August 2009, 15:37

40W50 cannot be correct, there is no such oil made anywhere in the world as far as I know, the numbers are too close to each other at that viscosity end to make a difference from a straight grade. Check the manual for the correct grade.
I am not too sure of what is a good commonly available synth for diesels in Blr, but I am sure you will hear about this here soon. I have stopped spending synth money for my diesel, and I do not subscribe to the flush use theory.
I also do not believe in additives to be added to the oil.
I don't think that the service station will cheat you about the oil you give them in a place like Blr. What is more likely is an overfill! If you ask politely to hang around till the oil change is done, they may still be ok. Or, get this done at an authorised Hyundai a.s.s location, they tend to be smaller and less formal.
Also, I have found that Hyundai uses pretty decent oils on the newer engines it has - do you know what oil they would use? For the i 20, they use Shell in SL grade. Mineral, but a very good oil all the same.

gpa · 27th August 2009, 16:11

40W50?? I've never heared of such a grade of oil. What is worrying me is the fact that a senior person at an A.S.S is making such comments.

Mobil Delvac Super is a fully synth oil formulated specifically for diesels. There is no reason why you can't be allowed to view the oil change. Most A.S.S are now open to allow customers to walk into the work area if their car is being worked on.

Just be sure you don't come in the way of any of the mechanics and hinder their work.

gpa · 27th August 2009, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawyer

For the i 20, they use Shell in SL grade. Mineral, but a very good oil all the same.

Sawyer,

Is this the Shell Helix Super 15W 40 mineral oil that you are referring to?

thanks,
gpa

Sawyer · 27th August 2009, 16:22

Gpa, yes. That's the one. formally endorsed by Hyundai now, based on the posters I saw in the service station.
Noticed your Santro - I think that for that engine, they still go with Servo, I am not sure of the grade. I did not know that they used Shell for the newer engines, I had carried Magnatec. Next time, I won't bother, the Shell is good enough and convenient too.

gpa · 27th August 2009, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Noticed your Santro - I think that for that engine, they still go with Servo, I am not sure of the grade. I did not know that they used Shell for the newer engines, I had carried Magnatec. Next time, I won't bother, the Shell is good enough and convenient too.

The HASS, I frequent changed to Shell sometime ago as well. I think the Shell's 15W40 is a really good oil, provided you change it every 5k kms or 6 months. Makes sense as both the changes will still be less than the price of a fully synth oil change.

sgiitk · 27th August 2009, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpa

40W50?? I've never heared of such a grade of oil.

Reminds me as a student in the UK in the early 1970's we were warned to watch out for grades like 30-50W. If the W is on the second figure it would be a single viscosity oil!!

amitwadhwa · 27th August 2009, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Reminds me as a student in the UK in the early 1970's we were warned to watch out for grades like 30-50W. If the W is on the second figure it would be a single viscosity oil!!

Thanks for the responses all of you.
He had said 40-50 (not 40 to 50, just 40 50), and I put the W in and asked him do you mean 40W50 (Cos' that sounded like funny..) ? He nodded his head and said yes..

So I guess then Shell Helix Ultra 10W50 should work for my car then ?
And what about the flush oil ? Do I need it ? and do I take my own or they would have it ?

I guess once I get these couple of answers, I should be ready to go...
Any idea on the cost of Shell Helix Ultra 10W50 ? I need 5.3 Litres...

Thanks again for all the knowledge sharing on this!

DieselFan · 27th August 2009, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by amitwadhwa

1. Should I just give them 5.3 Litres of expensive synthetic oil and trust them to fill it in ?
2. The advisor said I need to bring 40W50 grade of oil. Is that alright ? If not, what grade should I be putting in ?

3. Would shell petrol bunks at BLR stock this synthetic oil ? Any particular shell oil to be put in ?

4. Will they have that flush oil available or is it recommended that I take my own ?

I still have a week before giving my car in for the 3rd free service, so any thoughts on this would be highly appreciated. Thanks a lot!

Oh.. and, its a Verna CRDi with ABS (Sep. 2008). I do about 15-1600 kms a month on this car of which about 300-400 is highways doing about 120-140kph.

Amit

Hi Amit,

I would not waste money on Synthetic for Diesel engines. Absolutely not required when you are getting good diesel oil and sourcing Diesel Synthetic is very tough. Go for Mobil Delvac MX. This is a very good diesel engine mineral oil from Mobil.

To answer your questions -

1. HASS has to agree to your request of you viewing your car being serviced. Each service center is to have a customer viewing Window (made of glass which gives a clear view to the workshop floor). Ask them to carry out servicing close to the window and you can observe them.

2. I think the service advisor would have asked you to bring 15W40 oil. What he didn't mention is about diesel oil grade. A specific Diesel engine oil grade needs to be used. This will be in your car manual. Mobil Delvac MX is of Grade CI and can be used in lieu of CF, CG or CH requirement as this is a better grade.

3. As far as I know shell doesn't have a Diesel engine synth.

4. Flush not required if you are changing oil to Mobil Delvac MX.

Any oil additives are useless and sometimes detrimental. so beware of using them.

live2drive · 27th August 2009, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by amitwadhwa

1. Should I just give them 5.3 Litres of expensive synthetic oil and trust them to fill it in ?

Verna takes in around 4.8-4.9L of engine oil with a filter change.

27th August 2009, 11:08	#2011
Sawyer Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 2,666 Thanked: 1,793 Times	I get it from Hindustan Oil, their distributor near the Corporation, off JM road. He has a high turnover, so the stocks are fresh. Usually. Last month I got a 4l bottle of Magnatec for around Rs 1200, May 09 manufacture.
	() Thanks

27th August 2009, 11:18	#2012
comfortablynumb Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 2,068 Thanked: 3,627 Times	Thanks. One last question - Will I need an engine flush to remove all traces of the previous VS MAX oil, before putting in the Mobil/Magnatec oil?
	() Thanks

27th August 2009, 11:28	#2013
Sawyer Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 2,666 Thanked: 1,793 Times	Nope. I do not even recommend it for a switch to synthetic, because you want to minimize the number of unknowns you introduce into the heart of your car. And, your next worry would be, has the flush all been drained! But it is important to ensure full drainage and that usually means hanging around! The trick is to get the sump nut off as soon as you get there, while the oil is hot, and drains easily. And to then stand there till the flow has come down to the slow drops phase, for up to ten minutes in that phase. And make sure that the same thing is done about the unscrewed filter opening. And then wait till the oil you bring is measured and poured out. It is usually by this time that I wander off. If you do all this, you don't need to chance the flush. Also, if you are on a 6 monthly change regime, that minimizes the need for a flush too. Finally, use the money you save on that elsewhere!
	() Thanks

27th August 2009, 13:56	#2015
amitwadhwa BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: bangalore Posts: 74 Thanked: 57 Times	Synthetic Oil for Verna My Verna is at almost 18k kms now, and I have been reading up on this forum about synthetic oils used in the engine. I would like to go in for this. I spoke to a "senior-most" service advisor of Advaith Hyundai on outer ring road in Bangalore. They said I will have to bring my own oil and they have no problems putting it in for me (they don't stock it). It will also not void my warranty. Or they can put "additives" alongwith the regular mineral oil to make it perform just like synthetic oil (That's rubbish isn't it ?). But I will not be allowed anywhere near my car during servicing (No exceptions). 1. Should I just give them 5.3 Litres of expensive synthetic oil and trust them to fill it in ? 2. The advisor said I need to bring 40W50 grade of oil. Is that alright ? If not, what grade should I be putting in ? 3. Would shell petrol bunks at BLR stock this synthetic oil ? Any particular shell oil to be put in ? 4. Will they have that flush oil available or is it recommended that I take my own ? I still have a week before giving my car in for the 3rd free service, so any thoughts on this would be highly appreciated. Thanks a lot! Oh.. and, its a Verna CRDi with ABS (Sep. 2008). I do about 15-1600 kms a month on this car of which about 300-400 is highways doing about 120-140kph. Amit
	() Thanks

27th August 2009, 15:37	#2017
Sawyer Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 2,666 Thanked: 1,793 Times	40W50 cannot be correct, there is no such oil made anywhere in the world as far as I know, the numbers are too close to each other at that viscosity end to make a difference from a straight grade. Check the manual for the correct grade. I am not too sure of what is a good commonly available synth for diesels in Blr, but I am sure you will hear about this here soon. I have stopped spending synth money for my diesel, and I do not subscribe to the flush use theory. I also do not believe in additives to be added to the oil. I don't think that the service station will cheat you about the oil you give them in a place like Blr. What is more likely is an overfill! If you ask politely to hang around till the oil change is done, they may still be ok. Or, get this done at an authorised Hyundai a.s.s location, they tend to be smaller and less formal. Also, I have found that Hyundai uses pretty decent oils on the newer engines it has - do you know what oil they would use? For the i 20, they use Shell in SL grade. Mineral, but a very good oil all the same.
	() Thanks

27th August 2009, 16:11	#2018
gpa Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,795 Thanked: 362 Times	40W50?? I've never heared of such a grade of oil. What is worrying me is the fact that a senior person at an A.S.S is making such comments. Mobil Delvac Super is a fully synth oil formulated specifically for diesels. There is no reason why you can't be allowed to view the oil change. Most A.S.S are now open to allow customers to walk into the work area if their car is being worked on. Just be sure you don't come in the way of any of the mechanics and hinder their work.
	() Thanks

27th August 2009, 16:22	#2020
Sawyer Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 2,666 Thanked: 1,793 Times	Gpa, yes. That's the one. formally endorsed by Hyundai now, based on the posters I saw in the service station. Noticed your Santro - I think that for that engine, they still go with Servo, I am not sure of the grade. I did not know that they used Shell for the newer engines, I had carried Magnatec. Next time, I won't bother, the Shell is good enough and convenient too. Last edited by Sawyer : 27th August 2009 at 16:24.
	() Thanks