ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

[Soccerfan]

What would be the best Diesel engine oil (Synthetic) in grade 5w-40 available in India? Is Mobil1 available in Diesel specific specs?

[khoj]

Originally Posted by nitrous

These expensive fully synthetic lubricants have expensive, well performing additives blended in.
Call it a "built in" engine flush.

The engine will be in its pink of health only when its clean and it is necessary to be spick and span inside. Using synthetics will guarantee this and so I never recommend anyone the flush when they're gonna fill the engine up with fully synthetic oil.

Some engine flushes create more damage(wear & tear) than if the engine stayed dirty.
Food for thought.

Welcome to the club.

Originally Posted by asitkde

However, I have some confusion theoretically. I decided on the 5W-40 and if I am not too mistaken when I talked to Suman-da, he mentioned this grade. But at the shop, they actually put in 0W-40 which I am a bit weary off. I asked him if it will withstand the Kolkata heat (upto about 40 degrees in the summer). He nodded positively.

So there I am with the Petronas Syntium 5000 0W-40 in the car. As I said so far the car is running beautifully and smoother than ever before. But I have some doubts in my mind about the grade and its feasibility in our conditions (right now the temperatures are beautiful with nights starting to get cooler).

Should I be worried that 0W-40 went in my car? I have some idea about some of the numbers in the file, but not all.

Regards.

In the pdf attached by you look at the viscosity values for various grades. You will notice that at the two temperatures of 40 degree C and 100 degree C the viscosities across the various grades are in a very tight band of values between 12.9 & 14.1 centi Stokes except for the 5W 50 grade @17.5 cSt. However the 50 grade is meant for environments with sustained ambient temperatures in the high 40s (46 degrees and beyond). BTW the temperatures in our engines are way above the ambient and as the chart shows on the higher reaches all oils retain more or less the same viscosity, what with the higher digit for the different grades being 40 across the board which is the relevant spec in ambients like ours. So whether the grade of oil is 0W 40, 5W 40 or even 15W 40 it really does not make a difference. Further see the flash points for all grades, it is tightly wound around the 200 degree Celsius mark (showing similar stability in different grades at higher temperatures).

It is the lower number on the grade chart i.e 0 and 5 etc which make the real difference in terms of the oil remaining in liquid state at below freezing temperatures. This variation can be seen in the pour point temperatures varying from -27 to -60 degree C (defined by the 0, 5, and 15W etc) but then this is totally irrelevant for our conditions.

What will make a difference is whether the oil is mineral, semi or fully synthetic, which manufacturer's advert influences you more, whose packaging catches your fancy, the price point, what your pals on Tbhp or otherwise are pouring and finally what is easily available in your neighbourhood.

[asitkde]

Thanks khoj for the explanations.

I forgot to mention in my last post that the engine was not flushed at all. I raised the issue, but the garage did not want to do it. After 3 days, I do not see absolutely any change in the color of the oil which is remarkably transparent in appearance.

I had to buy a 4 liter can of the Petronas Syntium 5000 0W-40 at Rs 800 per liter, although the requirement was 3.1 liter. So I have the 900 ml oil left over. The manufacturing date was sometime in end of 2009 and the date of import was summer of 2010.

A few remarks on my compilation of the table (pdf file) in my last post. A small part of the data needs to be rechecked, although I got them all from the company websites. It was very difficult to get the technical spec of the Shell Helix Ultra. After a lot of search, I found 2 documents which were not the same for the same name with the same grade. I realized that one was an earlier data. In my table I have used the apparently most recent of the two. But still, I am not sure, because it surprises me that the Helix Ultra 5W-40 would be a API SL ( and not SM). If someone knows better, please let me know and I shall update my table.

The other inconsistency in the table is the flash point temperature of the Hyundai Servo premium (only 135 deg C which is surprisingly low). But that's what the IOC Servo data shows. It may be a typo on their part.

Any comments on the TBN numbers in my table?

Regards.

[nitrous]

Originally Posted by asitkde

The other inconsistency in the table is the flash point temperature of the Hyundai Servo premium (only 135 deg C which is surprisingly low). But that's what the IOC Servo data shows. It may be a typo on their part.

I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't a typo.
And neither should you.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by asitkde

Thanks khoj for the explanations.

It was very difficult to get the technical spec of the Shell Helix Ultra. , because it surprises me that the Helix Ultra 5W-40 would be a API SL ( and not SM). If someone knows better, please let me know and I shall update my table. .

Shell Helix Ultra is 5w-40 API SM. You can read the specs here - Shell Helix Ultra - India

I also confirm that the can (new packaging) I purchased for my car's oil change in Sept read API SM.

This is my 2nd fill with SHU and all I can say is SHU rocks.

Not sure how it compares with Mobil1 as I can't get the required fully synth grade (5w-40) in that brand for an apples to apples comparison. I may try Mobil1 0w-40 after the car's warranty expires.

Regards,

[asitkde]

Hi R2D2,
I have no doubt that the Shell Helix Ultra is a very very good oil. Suman-da of Alok Automobiles also highly recommended it. I got the Petronas because it was readily available at the garage (for the SHU I had to drive to a very congested area of Kolkata where parking is a huge problem).

The problem of the page you have linked in your post is that it does not give any of the specs I was looking for like the viscosity index etc (I have gone to that page a number of times myself). It, however, mentions the oil as API SM and no less. I could not find any page with the oil being a SM and at the same time giving us the other specs. The file I have used is also obtained from the Shell website (their global site I guess) is attached below and I am sure it is NOT the current spec. Anybody aware of the current specs, kindly let me know.

Regards.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by asitkde

Hi R2D2,
Anybody aware of the current specs, kindly let me know.

Regards.

The file you attached dates back to Dec 2001. Here's the Feb 2008 version, the latest I could find. Hope this helps.

[asitkde]

Thanks R2D2 for providing a more recent document for the SHU oils. Now the problem is that the "edit" button has disappeared on my previous post which contained the attached table (probably because stipulated time to edit a post has expired) and as a result I cannot update the table. Anyway the purpose has been served and a more recent data on the Shell synthetics are here with us.

Regards.

[rock75]

Originally Posted by guptavis

@rock75: which shop did you get the petronas oil from?

I bought it from Ganga motors, authorized dealer for petronas in Phase 7 Mohali market, near ICICI/HDFC bank showrooms. It was old print got it around Rs 900/4litre pack(Petronas syntium 800 API SM 15W50) ou can get it in Sec 48 mototr market too.

[MutantX]

guys, my i10 is due for second service. Oil change is recommended by Hyundai and I have done close to 2k kms. Which oil do you guys suggest i10 kappa (gen I)? and should I go in for a flush followed by filling in new oil? Thanks in advance.

[rock75]

Why you want to do engine flush after only 2k kms? If at all you want to do flush wait till you cover 20k kms. Just ensure to change your engine oil after recommended intervals and as for engine oil consult your owner's manual, you should try to get a higher API grade like SL or SM.

[sgiitk]

I have nevr had reason to flush my engine in 42 years of driving. The dealers (esp. Hyundai) always want to flush the engine and radiator, and also decoke the engine to make some extra moolah. Just say sorry politely and firmly.

[HappyWheels]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I have nevr had reason to flush my engine in 42 years of driving. The dealers (esp. Hyundai) always want to flush the engine and radiator, and also decoke the engine to make some extra moolah. Just say sorry politely and firmly.

Sgiitk,

IMO, I feel engine flush and dental care are similar.

It is not that you do engine flush on a fairly new engine (like what all service centers would suggest) but to do it when you know that it will make a difference, more so for a vehicle that would have covered a very fair amount of distance. That is when you get the benefit.

So, never done it in 42 years (engine flushing), might not be the best example.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by HappyWheels

Sgiitk,

IMO, I feel engine flush and dental care are similar.

It is not that you do engine flush on a fairly new engine (like what all service centers would suggest) but to do it when you know that it will make a difference, more so for a vehicle that would have covered a very fair amount of distance. That is when you get the benefit.

So, never done it in 42 years (engine flushing), might not be the best example.

sgiitk is right, if you change your engine oil at recommended intervals and use the grade & brand of oil that meets or exceeds mfr specs, you would never need to flush over hundreds of thousands of kms which modern engines are capable of running.

I have the 9th gen Toyota Corolla US workshop manuals and they do not specify engine flushes as a matter of routine maintenance even after the 100,000 mile (160K kms) mark.

We need to take such service station recommendations with a pinch of salt. They are only trying to make more money. Unfortunately my father fell for this con game when he sent his Fiat Palio 1.6 to the authorised service station (Tata!) for routine maintenance. Believe me, that Bardahl engine flush hasn't done an iota of good to the car's engine.

Cheers!

[guptavis]

Originally Posted by rock75

I bought it from Ganga motors, authorized dealer for petronas in Phase 7 Mohali market, near ICICI/HDFC bank showrooms. It was old print got it around Rs 900/4litre pack(Petronas syntium 800 API SM 15W50) ou can get it in Sec 48 mototr market too.

Thanks rock!

Will check it out. Im looking for the Petronas syntium 800 10W40 though. Hope they have that grade too