[joslicx]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

.
The risk of getting the charger stolen remained, though.

Yes, the charger or the cable getting stolen is a risk. It has to be plugged for hours for the battery to charge. You cannot be by the vehicle all the while is being charged.

And the extension cable can be used by people upto certain number of floors. It won't be feasible if you are on 20th or 30th floor or something like that. I think better solution is to allow for design whereby the battery can be removed from the vehicle and taken home. Then it can be recharged at home. There's no need to install any elaborate charging infrastructure.

[Bh.P]

Originally Posted by joslicx

I think better solution is to allow for design whereby the battery can be removed from the vehicle and taken home. Then it can be recharged at home. There's no need to install any elaborate charging infrastructure.

The battery in the Ather weighs 19 kgs I think. Not sure if many would like to lug that around on a regular basis; I won't. Longer ranges - heavier batteries (till the technology evolves). So this idea may not fly for many.

[aim120]

Removable battery also means easier to steal for thieves and the battery cost is very high. Good thing about ather is that it's connected to the internet with addition of gyro, accelerometer sensors and GPS which all of these combined will make it impossible to steal.

[fordday]

I visited their experience center yesterday and took a test ride. Here are my observations and I won't repeat what others have already mentioned


- The scooter starts to roll without any fuss and with least effort of the wrist.

- The suspension is little firm. The ride in an Activa, with a only the rider is harsh but with a pillion it gets very comfortable. The S450 ride lies in between these two, with or without a pillion.

- The indicators are auto cutoff, like in cars.

- The rear view mirror position can be adjusted in two places. Apart from the normal process as in other scooters, it can also be adjusted at the base of the connecting rod.

- Could not test on a down slope, but I think it won't run away. The regenerative braking feature should be able to take care of that.

- Two belt drives are there, motor to pulley and pulley to rear wheel. Both do not have auto tensioner. Will it slip if it gets a little loose or in wet conditions? No idea.

- Braking is too sharp. Brembo brand is what the guy told me. Could not confirm.

- MRF tyres felt good and grippy.

- Front telescopic shocks are of Gabriel make.

- Rear mono shock is not adjustable.

- Plastic panels quality, their touch and feel and their fit and finish are okay. Nothing great.

Overall it was totally different experience.


Will I buy? Not now, I will wait for sometime to let them iron out the real world issues when they start to pour in.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by Bh.P

The battery in the Ather weighs 19 kgs I think. Not sure if many would like to lug that around on a regular basis; I won't. Longer ranges - heavier batteries (till the technology evolves). So this idea may not fly for many.

Yes, 19KG battery is not going to be portable. So charging cable and extension cables are the only option.

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by fordday

- The indicators are auto cutoff, like in cars.

Really? I missed that. That's a good feature to have.

- The rear view mirror position can be adjusted in two places. Apart from the normal process as in other scooters, it can also be adjusted at the base of the connecting rod.

This must have been the reason behind this point. The adjustment should take care of it

Originally Posted by dreamseller

Things I didn't:

• The mirrors look beautiful, but absolutely useless. I could only see my paunch in them

- Could not test on a down slope, but I think it won't run away. The regenerative braking feature should be able to take care of that.

I checked that, it does take care. but the regenerative braking is not too strong compared to that of the E2O

- Braking is too sharp. Brembo brand is what the guy told me. Could not confirm.

Yes it's Bybre -A brembo brand dedicated to motorbikes and scooters
Trivia: Bybre means By Brembo

- Plastic panels quality, their touch and feel and their fit and finish are okay. Nothing great.

True In a video review someone told that it's premium. I couldn't relate to it.

[Bhatman510]

Originally Posted by fordday

- The suspension is little firm. The ride in an Activa, with a only the rider is harsh but with a pillion it gets very comfortable. The S450 ride lies in between these two, with or without a pillion.


- Two belt drives are there, motor to pulley and pulley to rear wheel. Both do not have auto tensioner. Will it slip if it gets a little loose or in wet conditions? No idea.

Suspension is also probably a little firm due to the extra weight of the battery pack, your CG point is lower on the scoot and with a battery pack living there, have to compensate.

Belt drives usually dont need an auto tensioner. As long as the sprockets are toothed correctly for the belt, motor belts usually dont slip. Zero's use a belt drive similar to HD and there tensioned from factory in a similar way as a chain drive. Ive ridden in the rain with belt drive, never an issue.

[avanishphatak]

A few things that came on my mind.
1. The need for a centre stand and side step for women wearing saree. Hope they have designed the ports in the chassis for the accessories to be added later.
2. Range anxiety handling with reserve power
3. Does it have hooks in the footwell to hang bags like most of our activas do?
4. People meddling with the display and miscreants scratching or ruining it when parked. Quite possible in our Indian conditions. Newbike Curiosity-Jealosy
5. Structural strength with aluminium chassis on impact. (I'm sure they would have tested it, but this to quell our apprehensions)
6. Availability of replacement parts. "Sir no stock" is something we quite often hear. I've even gone through this with Maruti and Honda-bikes with basic things like wiper blades and silencer cowls
7. One important point is the headlight brightness during night drive. Honda Activa wasn't so great, whereas TVS Jupiter excels in this area.

[hrman]

I think the brightness of the headlamp at night should be ok, considering it is an LED. If not, it will be a pain considering in the IC scooters it is easy to fit brighter halogen bulbs and it doesnt cost a bomb.
I would also like it to have an add on front storage(Like TVS wego).This may cause the knee to hit the front earlier, considering the disc brakes. But its nice to have option along with the hook to keep bags.

[NPV]

Originally Posted by avanishphatak

4. People meddling with the display and miscreants scratching or ruining it when parked. Quite possible in our Indian conditions. Newbike Curiosity-Jealosy

Very valid point, our roads are so full of sadistic vandals, I just hope the console on these Ather scooters doesn't become a soft target

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by hrman

I think the brightness of the headlamp at night should be ok, considering it is an LED.

No guarentee, just because its an LED unit.

Case in point - Yamaha FZ25. The headlights are pathetic, even though LEDs. Just about matches halogens and reduces to zero illumination at the slightest hint of rain.

The only real impressive LED setup is on the Dominar 400 IMO. Yet to see how this Ather illuminates the road.

[hemanth.anand]

An update. I had got a call from Ather on Thursday. They wanted to study my apartment parking lot and the location where I would park the scooter. This was for installing the charging station. They took the appointment for today at 10am and the electrician from Ather came home today on the dot.

I showed him the parking slot location and the meter location. With a laser scale, he took measurements and noted down that it'll need a total of around 40 metres of cabling. This study of the houses is done area wise it seems. He told that they started with areas around Indiranagar and now South Bangalore. Upon asking he told that actual installation will start from July before the deliveries that'll start in August as per our order date as confirmed by the sales team.

Originally Posted by avanishphatak

A few things that came on my mind.

All Valid thoughts.

1. The need for a centre stand and side step for women wearing saree. Hope they have designed the ports in the chassis for the accessories to be added later.

Yes i hope so too that they've designed mounting points to add these accessories.

2. Range anxiety handling with reserve power

maybe like E2O it can be done on the app. The public couldn't see the app during the test ride, it was only reserved for media riders could see it i guess

3. Does it have hooks in the footwell to hang bags like most of our activas do?

this one is present

4. People meddling with the display and miscreants scratching or ruining it when parked. Quite possible in our Indian conditions. Newbike Curiosity-Jealosy

Yes early buyers should be careful about this.

7. One important point is the headlight brightness during night drive. Honda Activa wasn't so great, whereas TVS Jupiter excels in this area.

True, also the light us white colour. What I've found is yellow light penetrates better and illuminates better than white

[fordday]

Originally Posted by avanishphatak

A few things that came on my mind.

5. Structural strength with aluminium chassis on impact. (I'm sure they would have tested it, but this to quell our apprehensions)

7. One important point is the headlight brightness during night drive. Honda Activa wasn't so great, whereas TVS Jupiter excels in this area.

Very valid points.

Hemanth has answered a few. I would also want to add.

I don't know about the Structural strength of the frame but would not worry much. Because it is a city ride with less top speed. I am not sure whether a normal scooter or bike chassis are designed to absorb impact on crashes. Being a two wheeler it will fall off, at the slightest impact with another vehicle.


Headlight brightness of Ather didn't inspire any confidence in me. I checked it out under very overcast conditions and there was no beam visible when I rode. When parked, it hardly lit up the potted plants and bushes at 2 feet distance.

[avanishphatak]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

They took the appointment for today at 10am and the electrician from Ather came home today on the dot.

That is Great. Executing the scheduled appointments on time and not making the customer wait is so much important in today's world.

Is the extra length of the wiring done on chargeable basis ?

Few more points to add.

1.If the existing mechanical switches can also help in navigating and selecting menu in the touch screen as an alternative will be great.

2.It will be good If they have support for connecting to Helmets which has indicators integrated. (Have seen some videos for other bikes )

[PetaWatt]

Took a test ride of Ather S450 last evening. It was scheduled to happen on 4th of July, but got a walk-in invite over the email.

Here is the list of things I like:

• Pickup
• Claimed usable battery life of 50000 kms
• Battery pricing at Rs 40k
• Reverse mode

Things I didn't like:

• CBS or whatever braking system it is
• 50 kmph+ dynamics
• Hard to reach turn indicator switch
• Suspension
• Location information being monitored

Not to compare a motorcycle with a scooter but just to give an idea of my expectations, I ride Yamaha R3 on a daily basis. In the test ride, the second thing I wanted to test was the acceleration. I found that acceleration was way more than what is needed for a scooter with tiny wheels. The first thing I test on any vehicle before I ride is brake. I found that the front and rear brakes of S450 behave differently. Front brake works gradually in a linear manner as per the expectation, but the rear brake engages suddenly with little movement on the brake lever. It was a difficult task for me to apply both the brakes simultaneously with massive difference in the brake levers movement. During the ride I found an empty stretch, so I tried to touch 80 kmph. But I lost the confidence at 60kmph and I stopped accelerating. I rode it on a bad stretch with potholes and found suspension to be on the stiffer side.I was able to feel even small stones lying over the road. Before taking my first left turn, I got distracted as my thumb was not able to find the turn indicator switch. Had to stretch my thumb a bit to reach and move the switch towards left. Thank God there was no right turn, I am pretty sure I will need 2X size thumb to push the turn indicator switch to the right. I ask the cost of replacing the battery, I was told, Rs 40k as on today but might be more 5 years down the line due to inflation and other factors. So, if we are getting battery replaced at 50000 kms, around a rupee per km should be added to the running cost.

If we want to use the scooter in the city on a daily basis without breaking any law (50 kmph speed limit for 2 wheeler), we can ignore and live with the things I mentioned I didn't like.


I am curious to know following things:

• I was told only 5% of energy is recovered using the regenerative braking and it will be optimized based on the rider's riding pattern over the time. What is the max energy recovery they can achieve from regenerative braking? In city driving, higher % of regenerative braking is needed to extend the range.
• How far a fully charged scooter will go if I ride constantly at its top speed of 80 or so kmph?
• If I hit a stationary car at 50 kmph, will it cause any damage to battery resulting in an explosion or fire?
• The motor contains permanent magnets, so performance of motor is expected to decline over the time. After how many years performance of motor will drop to 90%?