[dkaile]

What is the cost of those Excel Rims, as going Tubeless is top on my priority list too? Were the same Ceat tyres fitted to these rims without tubes or were the tyres changed as well?

Cheers...

[ku69rd]

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

Regarding the windshield, did you experience any flapping because of the crosswinds?

Nopes, I have not experienced any flapping due to cross winds. Wish it was a couple of inches tall. But my friend who stands at 5'7" did not face much issues whilst riding.

Originally Posted by dkaile

What is the cost of those Excel Rims, as going Tubeless is top on my priority list too? Were the same Ceat tyres fitted to these rims without tubes or were the tyres changed as well?

Cheers...

No Sir, the ceat tires are tube tires and you will have to invest on new tires if you plan to go tubeless. Just spoke to him and believe he has paid around 85K for all the mods including the handlebars.
The works was done by Big Bear Customs shop in KH Road, Bangalore.

But having ridden his bike with the mods, it becomes very nimble. The rims are very light when compared to the stock ones.

[ArizonaJim]

As most of you know, tubeless tires require the use of an alloy or spoke-less rim if they are to be used without inner tubes. (Tubeless tyres work fine with inner tubes inside them.)

While tubeless tyres have the advantage of being easily repaired if the damage is just a puncture, the use of alloy rims on an adventure or off road motorcycle has a few negatives that must be considered.

Although the aluminum alloys used for some wheels is fairly high quality with high strength, a number of cast rims available use the most inexpensive, low strength aluminum alloys available.

These low strength rims work quite nicely on paved roads (unless the tyre hits a pot hole hard) so for cruiser, "ride to work" slowly on the local roads, show bike or highway motorcycles they are adequate. (Notice I didn't say good.)

For an adventure motorcycle that will be ridden on roads with changing degrees of roughness, rough dirt roads or cross country riding, their weaknesses will rapidly be noticed.

Bent, cracked or broken rims can leave you stranded just as quickly as a punctured inner tube.

Has anyone here noticed that almost all "off road", dirt bikes and motocross bikes around the world have spoked rims (and the tube type tyres that go with them)?

There is a reason.

Spoked wheels are almost always made from steel.

Steel has from 1 to 4 times the strength of aluminum alloys.
Steel is over 3 times more resistant to bending than aluminum alloys.

Even the steel spokes offer advantages.

They are as light weight if not lighter than the alloy rims.

Cross winds have little effect on the wheels so while riding on a highway, a gust of wind won't blow you off course.

The steel spokes also serve as a type of spring.

Many people think the motorcycles is sitting on the spokes at the bottom of the wheel with the spokes acting like a bunch of little sticks on end supporting the weight.
That is not the way it works.

Actually the weight of the motorcycle is hanging from the top of the rim with the spokes acting as tight threads or strings would. This places the spokes in tension and as steel can stretch and then return to its original length if the load changes (like the wheel hits a pot hole), the spokes, acting like incredibly strong rubber bands, soften the impact felt by the motorcycle frame.

Also, not to be forgotten, when the wheel hits a pot hole or rock, because the load must be transmitted to the upper half of the wheel where the supporting spokes are doing their job the flexing of the steel rim between the bottom zone and the top zone softens the impact and its flexing removes some of the shock energy from the blow.

For the most part, alloy rims support the weight of the motorcycle from the bottom. They have very little or almost no "flex" so they don't dampen the shock from hitting things.
The cast alloy can be brittle and easily broken from severe shocks and as I mentioned, often they are made from the cheapest (weakest) grades of aluminum possible so the likelihood of them being damaged is quite high.

I mention all of this because those of you who are considering changing the spoked wheels to a cast alloy need to consider how these things work and how it may effect the performance of the motorcycle.

If your only going to ride on smooth, paved roads, alloy rims and tubeless tyres may be fine.

If your going to use the Himalayan for its intended purpose, perhaps the spoked rims and tube tyres are worth keeping.

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by ArizonaJim

If your going to use the Himalayan for its intended purpose, perhaps the spoked rims and tube tyres are worth keeping.

Thanks ArizonaJim for a great insight. So, any tips as to how to handle a tube type puncture on the Himalayan in a remote location? Would be helpful adding to my own experience on the same.

Cheers...

PS - I don't think this Ceat tyre is currently available in the local market. What tubes are available currently which can be easily carried along with these tyre sizes (90/90-21 & 120/90-17) ?

[Rajiv0909]

Originally Posted by dkaile

Thanks ArizonaJim for a great insight. So, any tips as to how to handle a tube type puncture on the Himalayan in a remote location? Would be helpful adding to my own experience on the same.

Cheers...

PS - I don't think this Ceat tyre is currently available in the local market. What tubes are available currently which can be easily carried along with these tyre sizes (90/90-21 & 120/90-17) ?

Something like this should be possible

http://youtu.be/Q89NTR2yNyc

You are right about the tubes, I have been following up with the dealer to get me a pair from the RE stock, this is the second week since I broached the subject and have had no confirmation yet. Meanwhile been using slime to avoid punctures

[ArizonaJim]

Originally Posted by dkaile

Thanks ArizonaJim for a great insight. So, any tips as to how to handle a tube type puncture on the Himalayan in a remote location? Would be helpful adding to my own experience on the same.

Cheers...

You could use Slime in your tubes.

It really doesn't do much besides make a mess if the puncture is large but for very small punctures it will keep the inner tube inflated long enough to get you home.

It may seal the leak well enough that you don't even notice it for a while but if the tyre pressure goes down it is best to have the tube removed and patched properly.

If you do decide to use Slime be aware: It comes in several flavors. There is one type that is made specifically for inner tubes. A totally different type is made for tubeless tyres.
The tubeless tyre type will not seal a punctured inner tube and likewise, the type made for inner tubes works poorly or not at all on tubeless tyres.
Read the information on the package before buying it.

As for dismounting the tyre and repairing the tube itself on the spot, that can be a challenge.

I don't know what Royal Enfield is supplying for tyre irons (metal bars used to pry the tyre off of the rim) but the ones they supply with the Royal Enfield UCE's are not worth much. They tend to bend easily when they are used.

There are replacement tyre irons available made from hardened steel to prevent bending. Unfortunately, most of them are to large to store easily on a motorcycle and they can be expensive.

There are tyre patch kits for repairing inner tubes available in the US and I assume they are also available in India and although they work well when new, the rubber contact cement in the little tube tends to dry out over the period of a year or so.
This makes it necessary to replace the kit at least that often even if it was never used.

Then, there is the problem of inflating the now, flat tyre.
Although there are hand pumps available, storage can be a problem.
Very small electric powered pumps are available and the Royal Enfield battery can power these if it is fully charged. Again, there is the problem of storage.

At one time, BMW supplied a small package with a pair of CO2 cartridges with their motorcycles. Included was a device to attach it to the valve stem and release the gas. They were intended to be used with the tubeless tyres on the bike but they would work equally as well on an inner tube.
The small package was easily stored.
The big problem with these is (as you might guess), they were very expensive.

There are a number of these inflaters shown on the web and it may be worth the trouble to see if they are available in India.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...reinflators-20

One thing to keep in mind if you buy one of these.
They are made for inflating bicycle tyres, not motorcycle tyres so you will need to have an extra CO2 cartridge along with you to get the tyre up to a ride-able pressure.

Also note, these 16 gram CO2 cartridges are not the unthreaded small ones intended for making seltzer water.
They require a threaded end to screw onto the body of the device.
Most places that sell these units also sell replacement CO2 cartridges.

------------------
As for trying to seal regular spoked wheels to allow the use of tubeless tyres without inner tubes, be aware, this can be dangerous.

Tubeless tyres need a special design rim to mate with the tyre bead to provide a proper seal. The rims that are made for use with inner tubes don't have these design features.
This can cause a fully inflated tubeless tyre to suddenly loose all of its air pressure which will result in an inconvenience at best or a crash at worst.

[Haroon]

ArizonaJim has wonderfully explained in great detail about the spoke & tube type wheels. And like he rightly said for real dirt duty, the spoke wheel with inner tubes are the best choice on such bikes. Even if you hit a pothole hard and the rim has some small bend, you can still take a hammer and beat the rim into shape and get going. Whereas with alloy wheels, you have to take it to a professional wheel straightener to get the job done (Oh yes, I had to undergo that ordeal on my 1200GS alloys and had them straightened from a professional in Bangalore).

Adding to his explanation, I will chip in here on tubeless spoke wheels - I think it was in late 80s or early 90s that BMW first started the trend of using spoke wheels that mounted TUBELESS tires thru a trick design where the spokes are terminated on the edge of the rim rather than in the middle of the rim. Soon Aprillia & Moto-Guzzi followed, while some years later Yamaha & Triumph also did it albeit with a trick design terminating the spokes in the middle of the Rim but the spokes not going thru the rim. These are only found in their hugely popular mamoth Adventure Touring bikes like the R1200GS, Caponord, Tiger Explorer, Super Tenere 1200 and the recent Ducati MS 1200 Enduro. Atleast in the case of BMW I understand these trick spoke wheels and alloy wheels are almost the same weight, while I am not sure about the comparative weight of Triumph, MG, Yamaha, Ducati wheels. In the meanwhile KTM was the only manufacturer that still mounted the old fashioned tube type spoke wheel rims on their big Adventure Touring bikes, but with their latest 1290 Adventure they have now shifted to a patented airtight rim beds that are like traditional spoke wheels but mount tubeless tires.

Coming to the Airtight Rim Beds, there are specialists doing this in Europe & US on regular spoke wheels for many years now putting some kind of a band in the rim to seal the spoke holes and mount tubeless tires, but IMPORTANT, these can only be done on rims that have a safety bead near the lip of the rim. So I am not sure if the rims on Mahesh's friends Himalayan are one of those, as they look on the outside like regular spoke/tube type wheels. Its great to have tubeless tires, but if the airtight job is not done properly, like ArizonaJim said, it could end in disaster!

I always prefer tubeless tire bikes for the ease of fixing a puncture on the roadside. Btw, if you are using one of those electric air pumps, its better to start the engine and run the pump or you could have full tire and a flat battery!! Also some of the regular Aux power outlets on bikes may not be able to take the load of the pump, so its better to hook the pump directly to the battery terminals.

During the initial Himalayan test ride, one of the suggestions I gave was to offer optional alloy wheels and making ABS and EFI standard. Hope RE gives it some consideration.

[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by ArizonaJim

As most of you know, tubeless tires require the use of an alloy or spoke-less rim if they are to be used without inner tubes. (Tubeless tyres work fine with inner tubes inside them.)

While tubeless tyres have the advantage of being easily repaired if the damage is just a puncture, the use of alloy rims on an adventure or off road motorcycle has a few negatives that must be considered.

Although the aluminum alloys used for some wheels is fairly high quality with high strength, a number of cast rims available use the most inexpensive, low strength aluminum alloys available.

These low strength rims work quite nicely on paved roads (unless the tyre hits a pot hole hard) so for cruiser, "ride to work" slowly on the local roads, show bike or highway motorcycles they are adequate. (Notice I didn't say good.)

For an adventure motorcycle that will be ridden on roads with changing degrees of roughness, rough dirt roads or cross country riding, their weaknesses will rapidly be noticed.

Bent, cracked or broken rims can leave you stranded just as quickly as a punctured inner tube.

...

I mention all of this because those of you who are considering changing the spoked wheels to a cast alloy need to consider how these things work and how it may effect the performance of the motorcycle.

If your only going to ride on smooth, paved roads, alloy rims and tubeless tyres may be fine.

If your going to use the Himalayan for its intended purpose, perhaps the spoked rims and tube tyres are worth keeping.

AJ,
if I'm not mistaken, Excel rims are made from aluminium extrusions that are rolled into circles and resistance butt welded. This type of rim is stronger than cast alloy rims and importantly for off road applications, far less brittle. The combination of an excel aluminium rim & steel wire spokes offer a better strength to weight compromise than steel rims and spokes.

As for tubeless tyres on wire spoked rims, both BMW and Yamaha offer externally terminated spokes on their high end models. Both designs mimic one piece rims to ensure airtightness since the spoke nipples don't enter the air chamber.
Apparently both designs are patented and both companies prefer offering them only on their high end models for marketing reasons.

[ShellZee]

Congrats ku69rd on the Himalayan.
The review you've put across is thorough and resultantly a perfect insight for a prospective buyer. Having owned almost all models of RE through the years, starting with the Standard in 1998, Electra, Classic 350, 500 TB 350 and finally the TB 500 that I currently own my trust and passion for the brand has only increased with time so much so that I asked my wife to book the Himalayan even before I'd seen it let alone taken a test ride. I had booked a Granite Himalayan and after an excruciating wait of over two months I am now likely to get the bike by mid June. The Snow being more in demand is available earlier but somehow I have always liked my cars and bikes black.
Through this forum and the others focused on this tourer I have been able to prepare myself on what to expect and also stock up on accessories. As an example the Cramster saddle bad from my TB shall not probably be the best fit and neither would the tank bag which is quite wide so I've almost decided on a new saddle bag and tank bag. Also the new protective gear from RE, though expensive is top notch quality so I'm saving up for the jacket at least.
Hope to get my hands on the adventure tourer ASAP.

[maker_of_things]

@ku69rd: Can you share with me a PDI checklist for the Himalayan? Will be doing the PDI tomorrow, so it'd be handy if I get one.

Thanks
Nikhil

[ku69rd]

Hi Folks,
Sorry was unable to post an update. Work was a bit hectic and could not respond.

Too much discussions on the wire wheels which are fantastic for all off-roading purposes.

@ Dheeraj,
Sorry for my wrong information, they are not alloys as told to you earlier. They are Aluminum rims. Hence the cost coupled with tubeless solution is a tad expensive

@ShellZee,
Congrats on your bike and wish you miles of smiles with the granite bike.

@Nikhil,
Congrats on your bike but I have not made the PDI list. All that I did was to take a plain simple no-nonsensical approach. Anything that seemed to be a deviation I have asked the queries. Just ensure that there are no physical scratches to the bike. The Engine Oil is fresh, odometer is not disconnected. Check for all the lights, tires(their manufacturing date), battery.
Particular to Himalayan ensure that the clutch is setup well.

Whoops just seen that you would have taken the delivery of the bike.

[ku69rd]

Hello All,
With all the air around the 'silent' recall for initial lot of Himalayans, I took my bike to the service station on the saturday afternoon. The service advisor asked me to come back on the monday after inspecting my chassis number.

So apparently its the initial lot of bikes that seems to be affected by the rocker arm which causes excessive tappet noise and clutch assembly for the hard gears. Have left the vehicle for the parts to be replaced and will post an update once it is done. Off course will share my feedback post the parts getting replaced.

Otherwise, the bike is behaving pretty well. Was able to complete a near 800 kms loop in of the previous weekends. The route was fantastic and very pristine. Malnad at its rainy best. Always rekindles my biking urge.
Dosa at Preethi Canteen, Birur are still worth the long deal.

[Red Liner]

Hi, congrats on the bike and the fun you seem to be having. Could you please post the route you took for the 800k sojourn?

[ku69rd]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Hi, congrats on the bike and the fun you seem to be having. Could you please post the route you took for the 800k sojourn?

Hello Redliner,

This is a half true map since a few places are not on google. Basically I took a few roads which are village roads and few were not even tarred.

https://goo.gl/pNNSqf

Do have a good time if you are planning to do this route.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by ku69rd

Hello Redliner,

This is a half true map since a few places are not on google. Basically I took a few roads which are village roads and few were not even tarred.

https://goo.gl/pNNSqf

Do have a good time if you are planning to do this route.

Many thanks ku69rd. Will study the map and pm you if I have any questions. Might do this in a couple of weeks. Best season to be exploring malnad!