[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by jkdas

HH maintanence costly? Quote an example. I bet you grew up seeing and drooling HH bikes and HH Sleek, HH Puch and sort. And I bet you are happy with P150 cos you are happy with its m i l e a g e more than anything.

HH reliability and quality cant be beaten. I too own a Bajaj and I am fed up waiting for parts for my bike's parts.

And what happened to P200 and P220? Pulled off from market coz of quality issues.

and lastly, how can you put up that so called monthly sales figures?

maybe you need to modify it like

Pulsars (includes p150, p180,p200 etc): 40,000+

Apache : 4000+

Unicorn : 2500+

Achiever : ????

CBZ X-treme : NA

My friend's karizma's clutch gave away after a 15 sec burnout and the replacement costed him 1800 Rs compared to 600 Rs for the same task for a pulsar even if u replace the pressure plate. The chain sprocket set was changed at 13k's kms for a whopping 2600 Rs!!!
The brake pads for the front disc are close to 700 rs compared to 100 rs for the pulsar!
I hope you are aware of the cam tensioner issue with the karizma and the bloody thing costs 1350 Rs.
The plastic quality on karizma absolutely sucks... i have seen mudguards broken in half as they could not take the abuse on bad roads, the side panels bolt mounting points break even under normal use, the side panels cost 700 rs a piece, the big front fairing 2500rs for one side (I am not sure of this, correct me if i am wrong)
The HH bikes are reliable for sure but heck they cost too much even carrying out normal maintenance.
Else how would they sponser all those zillion bollywood events throughout the year, support half of the indian cricket team ,sponser almost all the major cricket series india and abroad, hire the costliest bolywood star for a stupid commercial and pay royality to Honda for technology... it has to come from somewhere and its from your pocket!

Talking of numbers, p200 and p180 combined would be contributing less than 8k's (even this is an ambitious figure) bikes per month, the sales figure for P150 is still more than sales of all the other 150cc in the market combined... this is not blind faith nor its sheer good luck.... give credit where its due!

[BUSA]

Pulsars (includes p150, p180,p200 etc): 40,000+

85% Pulsars sold are 150's, so still the Pulsar 150 selles 6 times more then the other best seller in the segment

[benbsb29]

I standby jkdas's views regarding the parts problem faced when owning a Bajaj. Agreed that common parts are always easily available, but if some specific part goes kaput, then keep waiting, as is the case with me now.
I love the Pulsar, so any thoughts that this post has come from the enemy camp may be laid to rest in peace.

My bike had the worm (something of that sort is what they told me) connecting the speedo cable to the front wheel going kaput, and its been running with no speedo since the past 2 months now. Well, atleast when i decide to seel my bike it will appear to have run thousands of kilometers less than what the odo shows.

[saurabh711]

The 200/220 are facing some issues on the quality front. You can check out the threads on these things at How many bhp? xBhp!

150 and 180 would still be alright as they have gone thru much refinement.

Also, how about considering a Karizma or a Apache?

[krish3]

Pulsars are worth buying. 90% of the buyers will attest to that. There will be people who have faced issues with the bikes, but then which product doesnt???

Regarding the issues with P200 as seen in threads in XBHP(of which I too am a member), it seems to be true for a few people. But do keep in mind that there are far many who are happy with the product!!!

My view is that every bike has its pros and cons. And there is no bike in market which is not worth its price, simply coz there are customers who are happy with the product

[flipsyde]

i've been riding a pulsar 150 dts-i for the last 30k kms/3years. the gearbox is ABSOLUTE RUBBISH! the seat makes my rear hurt and the rear suspension is good enough to break backs! th steering feels heavy and the starter sounds likes an activist every time you push the button.

but on the bright side its cheap to maintain, economical to ride and provides good service backup(at least in chennai and bangalore they do).

the ZMA isn't exactly a brainchild of technology either. the cam tensioner problem is really annoying and the plastics....oophhh.....they are really brittle. i dont if i should blame the quality of plastics used or the design which makes it break and crack everywhere! its a B O M B to maintain! likely to give a heart attack during every service interval. and mileage is a scary 25-30 kpl.

it handles like a butterly, feels muchhhhhhhh lighter and the engine and gearbox refinements are gr8.

end of the day if i'm heading to the track or a long ride i'd jump onto the ZMA......but to live with everyday definitely the Pulsar 180/150.

[rider60]

man i remember someone saying that pulsar is not a bad bike its just that the bajaj have just too many defective pulsars rolling out of their assembly lines and the non defective ones are really rocking so i guess this accounts for the mixed responses that exists around!

i agree that the pulsar is cheaper on the maintainance but dont we just end up changing the parts too often compared to hondas and the hh bikes even if the honda's and the hh's parts are costly we change the pulsar's parts more often which means sort of endless visits to the mecanic and all those tedious hours of sitting down till the jobs are done? leave the Karizma out here because i have seen the hh mecanics themselves admit that the bike has a chain sproket problem and wearsout at about 6k kms for many bikes atleast and dont know whats wrong with hh providing a bad timing belt tensioning system i think the total gearing of the bike needs a good dose of review to be put in and proper upgrades or solutions to be provided to these problems of Zma!

well let me tell you pulsar fans i myself am a honda fan but eyed the p200 and was crazy about the looks and was about to buy it but the broken barrel of the p200 scared me real bad and so i settled for a honda unicorn! i hope bajaj wont do such blunders and improves & maintains the quality of the bike and keeps the name!

off late it made me think that bajaj doesnot really care for the QC of its bike and hence a blunder such as the p200 fork barrel rolled out of the line! may be this is due to the high sales they have that has made them overlook!

although even if honda and hh bikes are sold less in numbers they have the QE maintained on their bikes (excuse the Zma here for it has its set of flaws to be rectified and needs a good upgrade or solutions for the whole bike's gearing altogether).

and i have always noticed that one needs to wait atleast for a week or around10days to get a honda where as the bajaj bikes are readily avaliable this is something that has made think again that honda produces only the numbers necessary not like the bajajs that are surplusly made! and more over never heard of Easy finance schemes avaliable for any honda or a hh bike like the 1000bucks down payment and own a bajaj! doing this honda is puting in some efforts in making a buyer understand what actually a honda is and is AIMING AT THE LONGTERM ROYALTY! bajaj just wants to make the quick buck thats the feel bajaj is giving me! and more over sine bajaj made the upgrades of mags first doesnt mean they are going to hold the market for really long just wait and watch honda takeover when bajaj falls a sleep. i am saying this because the bajaj doesnt put in enough money into the R&D like the honda does! their royalty currently is the boom and the every 6months feeble upgrades. the useless i mean the quality less digital speedo gets screwed if the bike is left in rain for a night or it the bike has a minor fall from the parked side stand.

finally i would say bajaj has left many hearts throbing for the looks,racy feel of the bike,lower (or should i low quality too)maintainance costs, and mileage.
but the big question? where is QUALITY CONTORL? and when is it going to really invest on the R&D?

on the other hand i wouldnt say hondas are the best. they are trying to gain the big bucks too by providing their third world technologies to India even after owning the technologies like the TPFC of the CBZ classic seen in 1999 itself that is used on the race cars for the quick acceleration and the deacceleration! but atleast they are better for providing good quality where it matters like the engine and stuff and bad boys for bad plastic quality!

[zenx]

Hmm, from what I hear - Bajaj has acted very swiftly on this, made changes at both their and the vendor's end , and will be rolling them out on all P200s. The new batches already have the fixes, apparently.

As usual, their PR sucks. Most manufacturers have a few such instances, and manage to even generate +ve publicity around them or at least do a decent job of damage control. For some reason BAL has chosen the quiet route - unless they're just waiting 'for the right moment' - I don't understand how they think.

Visit Chakan once, you'll see what the production//QC is there for yourself. I'm in no way in love with BAL - and honestly think 98% of their service guys suck bigtime - they screwed up my first bike royally.

In terms of R&D effort and spend - the pecking order in India would really be
* TVS
* BAL
* R&D - whats that ??

Yes BAL needs to respond to this failure and show they've grown up as a bike manufacturer - but thats no reason to give credit where credit is due. The current Pulsars are 2 generations ahead of the first iteration - huge leaps - and all this at a very low increase in cost. They have figured how to produce very well rounded packages (all factors considered) around small capacity engines, and some biggies are talking to them about the same!

[krish3]

@zenx -: well said. Bajaj's worth can be understood from the fact that some of the biggies do consider tying up with it.

My personal experience with a pulsar has been good. Unlike what has been told, I personally never faced any quality issues with the bike, though the service guys really mess things up big time!!!

Pulsars are VFM at least upto the Pulsar 180. P200 once its issues are solved will also be good VFM for the stats it produces.

But Bajaj has tranished its reputation because of the broken barrels issue. Something which never should have happened has happened. It'll be tough for them to regain the faith of their prospective customers for P200.

[Technocrat]

@flipsyde:very nicely put I agree

[mithun]

rider60 : Unicorn is not a maintenance free bike. It has got lots of engine issues and the spares were damn costly. That's one of the main reasons for it's failure(sales-wise) apart from it's bland looks & poor A.S.S.

Honda is still unable to fix the rear rattling even in the new Unicorns. So what quality factor are you talking about ?

If you are having any doubts regarding the build quality of Pulsar w.r.t Uni, then you can compare yourselves with the same generations of both the bikes ?

[greatmana2000]

I believe the yamaha gladiator has a better engine , Lower wear and tear and the bike is kind of maintenance free . My bike has done around 15000 kms and I havent yet serviced the bike even once at an authorised workshot . I just change the oil ,that too oil from containers that cost 80 rs a litre . The bike returns a constant 50 kms which is awesome for my style of riding and I did get the valves checked at 12000 kms because I felt there was pinging noise .

This is my 4th yamaha and I would always swear by a yamaha when it comes to ease of driving ,maintenance free . The only problem I feel with the bike it its got plastic all around and that naturally makes the bike expensive . I would have preferred a no frills bike for a much cheaper price ,so that its functional and not that expensive to maintain .

Also ,it dosent make sense to buy a bulky pulsar or a apache especially when you know to drive in the city . I always felt any bike would be the same on a crowded road .

[rider60]

Originally Posted by mithun

rider60 : Unicorn is not a maintenance free bike. It has got lots of engine issues and the spares were damn costly. That's one of the main reasons for it's failure(sales-wise) apart from it's bland looks & poor A.S.S.

Honda is still unable to fix the rear rattling even in the new Unicorns. So what quality factor are you talking about ?

If you are having any doubts regarding the build quality of Pulsar w.r.t Uni, then you can compare yourselves with the same generations of both the bikes ?

Mithun
i do agree that unicorn is not a completely maintainance free bike and also the rear has the rattling noise and so does the front flairing after one crosses 80kmph mark.incomparision pulsar costs more on maintaince, get you calculations right here! the oil drains much faster l.e. at around the 2000-2500 kms mark be it 20w40 or 20w50 oil this is due to the very poor AIRFILTER provided BY THE WAY did you ever check the AIRFilter on both the bikes EVER? and another good REASON for this is THE pulsar's ENGINE is a overstressed or OVERREVVED one!

but what i mean by they providing QUALITY WHERE IT MATTERS IS, you will anyday have lesser visits to the mecanics, changing the spares less often!! we FORGET to calculate this MOST OF THE TIME BECAUSE WE END UP FEELING HAPPY ABOUT THE PARTS BEING CHEAP TO CHANGE LIKE FOR EXAMPLE THE CLUTCH PLATES ARE THE ONES THAT NEED FREQUENT CHANGING FOR THEY SORT OF JAM THE GB AFTER EVERY 6000KMS for kind of driveing style of around60kmph in city! AND COST ONLY AROUND 700BUCKS FOR THE CHANGE!, and honda the bike doesnt get screwed up as easily as pulsar does, atleast on the engine and gearbox criteria! well hondas dont have such issues of the parts wearing off so soon!!!!!! for they are understressed ENGINES!

IF THE MILEAGES ARE COMPARED UNI GIVES A CONSTANT GRAPH UNLIKE THE PULSAR!

FINALLY i would if all the things calculated in the long run the pulsar has lots of maintainance in comparision to a UNI.for the changing intervals are more in reality unlike the one mentioned in the BAJAJ'S manual otherwise the bike gets purely screwed! as for the the quality the pulsar needs to improve from the AIRFILTER UPGRADE ONWARDS! for its the main engine and the gearbox buster!!!!!!

a little off topic that puts light on the both the bike's maintainance! one really important thing is all the bikes above 100 segment, need to use 20w50 oils in the summer as per the manufacturer's recommendation, and i would personally recommend that in winter too for the rough riders or the ones who do constantantly around or above 60kmph because this oil factor really defines the life of the clutch plates(because these bikes come with the wet plates) and the engine as a whole.

and i have often the BAL and putting in the 20w40 some cheap brand that comes in the barrels in the service stations FOR PULSAR THIS IS CRITICAL THEY ARE OVERREVVED ENGINES UNLIKE THE HONDAS AND THE HH, AND THE LIFE OF THE ENGINE OIL IN PULSAR IS MUCH LESS WHEN COMPARED TO HONDAS AND HH.

THE SAME MISTAKE IS DONE HERE IN HONDA TOO!for the oil is provided by the honda itself under honda brand! and this oil i never found it to be ABOVE THE 20w40 MARK! which they use at their service stations too!

i always recommend the 20w50 oil (avaliable in castrol brand) for our country is not dust free and the heat is not on the lesse side either!

[diesel_headrock]

To be honest i think the first original pulsar still stands out to be the best.from the experience of my brothers pulsar 150(first batch).The DTS-I's din't really do a great trick with their so called dual spark plug.Infact not to many people's knowldge the first batch of pulsar dts-i's was been called back because of the problems in the twin spark plugs.also not to mention the level of temper the original dts-i owners must hav reached when in a couple of months bajaj came up with the dts-i with mag wheels.also i already spotted 2 new pulsar dts-i's with their LCD screens not working or to be precise showing 0 kmph even when the guy was riding it over 60kmph.not to mention the call back of the DTS-Fi and the big design flaws in it such as scrapping of the side stand while cornering.

coming back to good models in pulsar's,like i said the original was really good,especially the feel from the accelerator which is too smooth and remote from the dts-i onwards models.If you can live with the notchy gearbox this is a good bike comes at a decent price also.Another good model has to be the new 200cc dts-i with no big frills like the DTS-Fi.good useable features such as the oil cooler,clip on's and the sweet lookin O-ring chain.
Cheers!!!

[veyron1]

Ok. Lemme clarify a few points.

About the ZMA's clutch; the guy who did the burnout could've smoked his clutch ONLY under the foll conditions;

A) There was little or no engine oil.
B) The odo had clocked more than 15K kms.

There's no other way. The clutch, irrespective of bike, takes lesser load while doing a burnout, than it does under full throttle at 120kmph.

Secondly- HH's plastics are far better than Bajaj's. I have seen 50K run ZMA's with no rattles/squeaks, whereas my very own DTSi used to creak at 8K...

As for the cam tensioner- that's because of inadequate lubrication and incorrect cam gear ratios. The engine (originally 6-speed Honda CRF 230) is de-tuned, remember? And for the chain/sprocket; there's such a thing as too much torque. Try pulling the ZMA from 30 kmph in 5th, and you'll find out. The gearing has to be taller. This's the only Indian bike that redlines in 5th. But the joke is, Pulsar has shorter ratios. And yet...

TPFC of the CBZ classic seen in 1999 itself that is used on the race cars for the quick acceleration and the deacceleration!

Transient Power Fuel Control was a classic misnomer for a stupid fuel pump which's useless in a 150. Especially with the given carburetion. Disconnection of TPFC made little or no change to the bike whatsoever...trust me, I've seen & tried..

And guys, no matter which brand, every production line/floor is imperfect. No engine goes through blueprinting or NDT off the assembly line, so there are bound to be flaws.