[subincb]

Originally Posted by ambarkhan

The Dakar bikes for TVS is a Sherco bike with TVS sticker and the Hero bike is a evolution of BMW 450 made by SpeedBrain. Sherco can start selling the bikes in India utilising their TVS partnership if they want. But these are very low volume products (check what happened with KX/KLX or RMZs).
The bikes of the motorsports division are not coming to India anytime soon. Heck not all factory riders get to race on those 450s, it a distant dream for us mango people.

Hero bike is an evolution from speedbrain but they are going alone now and they must use the tech. The sxf, exc and all got better from ktm rally tech. Hero is just wasting what they gained and time is ticking for petrol bikes. 450s are a must and will gain popularity. Bikes only for just commuting purpose has long changed in india. Soon more and more people will move towards mx, enduro and rally. These bikes may not sell like commuter bikes but more like RE twins if priced right.

KX and RMZ is low volume mainly due to the price. And can you get number plate on them? The price difference between xpulse and them is so huge. Another reason is places to ride them are so far away from cities in India which needs pickup truck. And I doubt RTOs will permit trailers and dirt bike carriers on vehicles in india. RE or hero will have plates, for sure they will be cheaper than japanese ones.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Please help me understand why they did not go 500 CC and give an alternative to the Honda 500X. That should be superb VFM right! What's the limitation in just 50CC more?

It's the holy grail for offroaders, 450 is the engine capacity limit dictated for Paris Dakkar. It's a popular and hot segment globally, especially the European markets.

That's precisely what it comes down to, dealer feedback from RE's export markets. The Himalayan is slowly becoming a solid brand in itself. Mind you the global market got a far more reliable product post the Indian beta testing phase. The Himalayan is a low priced, cheerful and rugged option where the only other alternatives are cheap chinese clones or expensive Japs.

Now RE wants to move upmarket. Indian rivals apart from the pricier KTMs do not have the domestic/international market presence or the volumes. The chinese have no brand recall and the Japs cannot compete on price. Where the Himalayan is positioned it's an open goal post with little competition.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by amol4184

I wish RE does not follow Bajaj's strategy of creating a new segment every 20ccs and just retire old 411 Himalayan completely.
But that leaves Scram with 411 engine and it is too new a product to receive such major upgrade.
May be that was the plan all along? Move Himalayan to higher segment and create a confusing product like Scram 411 to fill in the space left by old Himalayan.

While in cc terms it looks like a Bajaj jump, the new 450cc liquid cooled engine will be a different beast altogether. It will have an almost 80% power hike over the current low revving 411cc air cooled unit.

I think the current Himalayan will need to co exist. The more powerful and lighter 450 will be noticeably more expensive. The current 411 will be the entry level Himalayan.

[mercedised]

Expecting any figure more than 35 bhp for this will be too optimistic. That would threaten Duke. KTM with its high compression ratio has been able to achieve 43 BHP with Duke.

I think this bike will produce anywhere between 31-35 bhp and not more than that.

[NTab]

Originally Posted by mercedised

I think this bike will produce anywhere between 31-35 bhp and not more than that.

Absolutely agree with your speculation. RE is churning out only 47PS from their flagship 650 twins. So expecting anything more than 35PS from 450 is just wishful thinking (fingers crossed though). It seems they are never interested in extracting more BHP out of their machines. Torque is different story though. RE will always be Torque biased, at least they are till now.

Ride Safe

[shancz]

Originally Posted by mercedised

Expecting any figure more than 35 bhp for this will be too optimistic.

I hope they don't repeat the mistake of launching a new bike and keeping it underpowered and overweight.

Originally Posted by NTab

It seems they are never interested in extracting more BHP out of their machines.

Also a function of the rpms the engine operates at. That's why the CB350 makes similar power as the Classic 350 since it revs to similar rpms. The difference though is in the refinement and feel.

Although and I hope that the Himalayan 450 relates to the last bike shown in video, in essense at least
Will let this guy explain it better rather than my limited knowledge :
Credits to Providers :

FortNine : Indian

[iron.head]

Sorry to be a spoilsport but RE can never come close to something as supremely simple, as supremely reliable, and as supremely fantastic as the DR650 and yet Suzuki will not launch it in India or revise it as per the latest norms.

[NTab]

Originally Posted by shancz

I hope they don't repeat the mistake of launching a new bike and keeping it underpowered and overweight.


Also a function of the rpms the engine operates at. That's why the CB350 makes similar power as the Classic 350 since it revs to similar rpms. The difference though is in the refinement and feel.

We all love Ryan .
The tragedy of RE is low power to weight ratio. Let’s hope RE delivers a good adv.

Slowly but steadily, RE is making their bikes more refined. Still a long way to reach the refinement of Japanese bikes, but then again, they have a different feel. At least RE is adapting to modern engineering, albeit very slowly. I just hope they stop making test subjects out of their buyers

[shancz]

Originally Posted by iron.head

Sorry to be a spoilsport but RE can never come close to something as supremely simple, as supremely reliable, and as supremely fantastic as the DR650 and yet Suzuki will not launch it in India or revise it as per the latest norms.

They won't but neither would Suzuki.
IMO the market for such a motorcycle is too small and not feasible in India at least.
The majority of buyers would expect much more from their motorcycle as the times, roads and traffic has changed drastically from when such bikes were launched.

In India most ADV buyers would ride their bikes at least 80% on the highways and long distances which would make refinement, stability, comfort and range to be primary factors along with off road capability. All of this needs to come with a competitive and reasonable price tag which would mean that the bike would have to be manufactured (not assembled) in India. Like the 390 Adventure has already proven.

Suzuki already have such a bike, the VStrom 650XT but since its imported the price tag is unreasonable.

Originally Posted by NTab

athe tragedy of RE is low power to weight ratio. Let’s hope RE delivers a good adv.

I would say that's their characteristic.
Majority of their sales are of the Classic 350, one of the least powerful bikes in their lineup. So they're responding to the market.

But thankfully with the Himalayan and the 650 twins their rpms have gone up along with their sales so I am hopeful for the 450's engine but I am still doubtful of the the weight.

Like I have said before, both me and the Himalayan can gain some muscle and lose some weight

[NTab]

https://youtu.be/oQELrtVsS_0

Why does it seems like this video is made by an Himalayan fanboy(ahem ahem, like me). Seems too good to be true. Also bikewale seems to be quite reasonable with pricing, at just ~₹2.7L. I personally doubt so. With all those goodies, it will definitely touch ₹3L mark.
Just when I was confused between Scram411 and Himalayan to buy, RE dropped this bomb, and made it all the more confusing

[ManneAtWheelz]

More speculated details about the upcoming Himalayan 450.

• 450CC liquid cooled single cylinder
• Specifications come close to 40hp and 45nm
• 6 speed transmission with slipper clutch assist
• 3 riding modes namely road, rain and offroad
• Swichable ABS
• 20 litre fuel tank
• USD Forks
• 21" front and 17" rear wheels, tyres come from CEAT

All this for a sweet price of 2.7L ex-showroom.

Now the waiting became more painful

[NTab]

Originally Posted by ManneAtWheelz

Now the waiting became more painful

That’s the problem with RE. We have to wait for 2nd Generation Himalayan 450, if we need a solid product. It will hopefully launch in Q3/Q4 of 2023. Expect one year more for 2nd generation, if they decide to improve on the feedbacks. If they turn a blind eye like 650 twins, then that’s a different story. But still, late 2024/early 2025 will be the right time to buy the 450. Hopefully all the niggles will be known by then, and if RE turns a deaf ear to the feedbacks, there will at least be a lot of aftermarket solutions.

Ride Safe

[subincb]

Almost all the 450s like Yamaha wr's yz's, KTM sx exc Husky fe, Honda crf, Suzuki rmz etc all produce over 50 bhp closer to 60bhp. 40 itself is very low if RE is planning to compete with them. It may not work out for them and service interval for those bikes are in every 10-15 hours if used on trails.

It has taken years for the japs and austrians companies to perfect the bikes. I have a ktm 2001 520 exc which is basically a 450 with only bigger cylinder and compared to the newer ones its a nightmare to work on the engines. almost all 450s has been around since the 90 and upgraded every year if not every few years with small upgrades making them more reliable. So first few years better to forget them if it is to be used for pure offroad.

[DesertLynx34]

There it is! I knew RE had Dakar aspirations when the 450 number popped up.

Even the specs these guys are mentioning (with some confidence and all) seem pretty decent progress over the current variant, which, by the way, has surely grown into a global brand.

Even Hero was scooped to be bringing similar figures for its own X-Pulse+. I hope this news would serve Hero to ante up their development at least.

[Venkatesh]

Upcoming Royal Enfield Himalayan 450 has been spied again.







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