[hikozaru]

Any particular reason why it is not preferable to just use and swap out a few OEM chains and buy fancy chains

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by b16h22

Was it the cone set that made the steering heavy?
It is preferable but not necessary to replace the fork oil under 20k. If you are feeling that the forks are a bit mushy, do it .

I don't really know for sure. Bhpian @sukiwa took my son to Dream Suzuki where the technician said it was. I spoke to him on the phone and explained the sequence of events. That only the lower fork leg pinch bolts and axle had been touched. Could he redo them properly and see if it made a difference. I know he redid the pinch bolts with my son sitting on the bike and the bike perfectly vertical. I don't know if he removed the axle and redid that or not. Bottom line, it made no difference. They have a 15 day wait order tome for the relevant parts, so they suggested that he gets it replaced at Dhone Suzuki itself (where we bought the bike from). So that's the current plan.My sonn is waiting for his main guy to return to work from leave, before he takes his bike there.

I am assuming when the cone is replaced (he was given an estimate of 900 bucks) they would obviously also look at both top and bottom T clamps. Will ask them to redo the axle and pinch bolts as well just to cross everything off the list.

Cheers, Doc

[b16h22]

Sorry for hijacking Neil's thread. Didn't want to create a separate ownership thread so I'm writing down some of my DIY experiments on my Gixxer 250 here. Thought it would be better if all the info about the 250 twins were available in one place.

O2 Sensor update

Removed the o2 sensor from the exhaust to have a look. Didn't look particularly dirty or damaged. Cleaning the tip was a futile exercise as it made no difference to the fuelling when I plugged it back. So I decided to run the bike without the sensor until I get a new one. It has been about 1000kms of running without the sensor and the bike feels nice to ride. It was a feeling I missed ever since I picked it up back in April 23. The bike still has a buzz when you get into the upper ranges of the revs but its nothing like before. But it pulls so clean all the way to the top and I absolutely love the power delivery. In fact I've been having a lot of fun with this thing inside the city premises. The only drawback is the constant check engine light and F1 error (or is it FI) warning on the dash not letting me see the ODO



Is it made by Denso? Can't seem to find any manufacturer name on it except a logo that says D.

New brake pads and fluids

Went to the local dealer to pick up the Gixxer 250 front brake pads. They did not have it in stock as expected (250s are rare here). Got the V Strom 250 brake pads. 700INR for them. They were not 100% identical and the parts number was also different. But it is a straight fit. There was a backing plate sort of thing missing on the Strom pads I bought. Initially I thought these lacked the bite of the previous pads but they had matching bite after bedding in for a couple of 100kms.



Cleaned up the brake dust and pushed the pistons back with old pads as a spacer. Cleaned the sliding pins and greased them.



Front brakes were decent but the lever travel was too much. Rear brakes basically had no bite from the day I bought the bike from the previous owner. I don't use the rear a lot but it is nice to have it working properly. Fluid in the rear brake fluid reservoir started to smell bad as well. Bled both front and rear brakes with new Bajaj Dot4 fluid. Front brakes felt good for 4 days but the dreaded spongy feel came back again



Fork oil replacement and dialing in the fork sag

Gixxers have good suspension from factory. Not overly stiff and sporty but just enough to have good support for spirited street riding. Bike has run 18k and the forks were starting to feel a little soggy. And I had this long standing issue of a mis-aligned front end which was robbing the fun of riding. It was the perfect opportunity to replace the fork oil and make some changes to dial the forks to my liking.

The initial travel of the forks always felt too soft to me and this didn't give me much confidence. There was too much sag. These forks are basic damper rod units and they don't have any kind of adjustability to them to set ideal preload at least. There are no specific preload adjustable fork caps available for these bikes. So I got these 35mm OD, 5mm thick washers to add more preload onto the stock preload spacers.



Taking apart the front end took longer than expected because somebody decided to go king kong while tightening the right fork cap . The left cap looked pristine compared to the right one so someone was here before. In the end, used the lower clamp as a vice and put all my effort into it to get it off.



Suzuki recommends endurance fork oil in the Spanish service manual I have. There is no mention of any weight grade. The Suzuki ecstar bottle doesn't have any weight grade on it either. But I found out from a Japanese blog that the G10 Ecstar fork oil they are using in the 250s is a 10w oil. I decided to stick with Suzuki's stuff as I didn't find the compression or rebound damping to be poor.



Pepsi blue aka Ecstar fork oil going in


Stock fork oil quantity for the Gixxer naked is 438ml
Stock fork oil quantity for the Gixxer SF is 463ml

Stock fork oil height for the Gixxer naked is 108mm
Stock fork oil height for the Gixxer SF is 112mm

This was news to me. I was under the impression that the forks were identical for the Naked and SF. It seems that there is a difference in tuning. It is probably due to the difference in fork tube length as the SF forks extend almost 2cms over the top clamp to fit the clipons. I had already decided to up the oil height in my forks.

Fork oil height determines the height of the air column inside the forks. The shorter the air column is, the stiffer the combined spring rate. It makes a non linear change in the effective stiffness of the forks (springs + air spring) especially in the second half of the stroke. Found a few articles and a neat graph which explained the effects of oil height.

Fork oil height is measured from top with springs out and the inner fork tube fully compressed. I decided to increase the fork oil height by about 1.5cms from stock as an experiment (108-15=93mm).



Made this contraption to measure the fork oil height. It worked pretty accurately for the use case. Measuring the height of the oil is a better method compared to measuring the quantity as the quantity of oil that comes out of each fork leg might not be identical when we drain it without full disassembly.

Springs, washers and stock preload spacers were put back in. The 5mm extra preload spacer went in over the stock spacer. It was a snug fit inside the fork tube. I started out with a conservative 5mm spacer and might add another 5mm if necessary.



When you fit the forks back, the height on the clamps is different to both SF and the Naked 250.

For the Naked - 2mm measured from the bottom of the fork cap.



For the SF - 21mm measured from the bottom of the fork cap.




Greasing the steering stem bearings aka cone set

This was not a planned job. While the forks were out to get the front end alignment correct, I noticed the steering was heavy on both extremes of its sweep. And there was a notchy feeling in the center. Removed the clamps and to my surprise 3-4 loose ball bearings fell down. I was not expecting Suzuki to use loose ball bearings in the cone set. The bikes I have owned before used a caged bearing setup. It is much easier to take apart and assemble. Anyway carefully collected the bearings that fell down and left inside the race. They were in okay condition. There was not enough grease and some rust was starting to settle. Ideally I should've replaced the bearings but it was evening and the SVC was closed. And finding spares for the 250s can be a frustrating process. So I cleaned up everything and greased the bearings and then put it back. So far it seems to have fixed the notchy steering. I'll replace the bearings in near future to be sure.


Observations on the new fork setup

So far I have done about 500kms after the change and I can confirm that the forks are much improved for my weight (90kgs) . They don't dive too much and I get increased feedback and support from the front end. They have stiffened up a bit more but not enough to make the ride any harsher.

I measured the rider sag by Motorcyclistonline's method and it was 45mm. I weigh around 90 kgs. It is a little outside the ideal 30-40mm range but I'll take it. Penske shocks say 35-45mm for street riding but MCN and a few other sources say 30-40mm for a fork with almost 120mm travel. Unfortunately I forgot to measure the sag before the mod. Probably was much worse before.

A short ride to the twisties

Was my first 100+kms ride after a tail bone injury back in 2022 Jan. Bike worked flawlessly and I was able to ride 120-130kms with a heavy pillion after taking constant breaks. The pain didn't play spoilsport too much but it reared it's head by the end of it. Gixxer handled the twisties very well with a pillion onboard. Rear preload was on 4th notch but it felt inadequate. Rear shock is a bit of a pogo stick with two heavy persons on it. But then I'm asking too much from a budget naked. It works well with a solo rider



Spongy brakes again

After the ride, the front brake got spongy again. Bike stopped adequately but there was too much lever travel and it felt spongy. I assumed that the air has gotten into the system somehow while taking apart the forks and handle bar. Bled the front brake again but this time with Bosch DOT4 fluid. Double checked to make sure there was no air in the system. Worked fine for 2 days and the same story again. My friend who owns a V Strom 250 was complaining of the same issue after 4000kms. He bled the system and it felt good for 2-3 days. At this point it reminds me of my first gen 390's master cylinder. It has probably gone weak which is a Bybre trait from my experience. I'll consider the options to improve or upgrade the stock MC in the future.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by b16h22

Sorry for hijacking Neil's thread. Didn't want to create a separate ownership thread so I'm writing down some of my DIY experiments on my Gixxer 250 here. Thought it would be better if all the info about the 250 twins were available in one place.

Brilliant post! Thank you so much.

One question. Don't know if you've explained it somewhere.

What made you move from a 44 bhp Gen 1 to a 26 bhp naked, which is definitely sporty and fast and fun in its own right, but not a Gen 1 390 for sure.

Cheers, Doc

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Brilliant post! Thank you so much.

One question. Don't know if you've explained it somewhere.

What made you move from a 44 bhp Gen 1 to a 26 bhp naked, which is definitely sporty and fast and fun in its own right, but not a Gen 1 390 for sure.

Cheers, Doc

After my tail bone injury and inflammation back at the start of 2022, got into a bit of depression and a financial dip. My motorcycle riding chapter closed for a good 7-8 months. Future prospects of riding a bike again was bleak as the recovery was very slow.

By the end of 2022, I could get on my Duke and ride around the neighborhood. I really didn't want to let go of the 390 prior to this but at this point I had to make a decision due to the financial situation and responsibilities. 390 was showing it's age and parts were getting harder to source in KL. The plan was to sell it off and get a newer but smaller bike for that money, that is easier on the wallet. Budget was tight so the options were pre-owned FZ25, CBR250R or MT15. Gixxer came into the picture later as my efforts to hunt down good CBRs were in vain. The FZ25 was the most practical option and I could work on that bike all on my own and Yamaha had a better parts support here. Gixxers had really poor resale in KL but being a two year old bike the asking prices were still outside my budget. Then one day I came across this ad, asking a price that was right inside my budget. Didn't hesitate and picked it up soon. It was the best value I could get inside the budget. It doesn't not match the Duke for sheer fun and thrills but you don't compromise too much like lets say, an FZ25 .

It was not all smooth sailing as it had it's niggles which took some months to troubleshoot and fix. I want to go back to a KTM when things improve but new bike prices are through the roof considering I got a near mint 390 back in 2015 for 1.5L+

[shadowrider]

Have you thought about replacing the front brake hose with a steel braided one? When I had my Gixxer 155 that was the first thing I did to get rid of the spongy front brake lever. It worked well for 7 years of ownership and the front brake lever feeling was solid even during hill runs at Kuttikanam, Vagamon, and Ponmudi. The steel braided hose of Pulsar 220 or 200 ns might fit yours. I opted for a different one from online back then.

Also, you moved from the Duke to Gixxer, and in my case, it's the opposite.

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by shadowrider

Have you thought about replacing the front brake hose with a steel braided one? When I had my Gixxer 155 that was the first thing I did to get rid of the spongy front brake lever. It worked well for 7 years of ownership and the front brake lever feeling was solid even during hill runs at Kuttikanam, Vagamon, and Ponmudi. The steel braided hose of Pulsar 220 or 200 ns might fit yours. I opted for a different one from online back then.

Also, you moved from the Duke to Gixxer, and in my case, it's the opposite.

I assume your old Gixxer 150 was a non abs bike, so the Pulsar brake lines were a viable option. Gixxer 250 has an abs system and related circuit of extra brake lines. And honestly, the sponginess in my case is not from the lines, it is the MC going weak. I'll be switching it soon.

[ebonho]

We finally got the Gixxer front end opened up top to bottom to check what the issue was.

The cone balls were fully rusty and pitted. The races to my eye looked fine, but apparently the service guys don't get balls seperately, and since the whole assembly was just 350 bucks (the labor was 400) I couldn't be fussed anyways.

Bike feels great now. Light. Predictable. Holds its line with no hands perfectly. No sudden dipping. Son seemed happy as well. Came back from the test ride saying "its too light". I told him that's the brand new front tyre finally showing itself, with new cone and bearings. The service guy said exactly the same when asked.

Suzuki charges 250 bucks for chain cleaning and lubing. I've been seriously spoiled by KTM.

Cheers, Doc

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by ebonho

The cone balls were fully rusty and pitted. The races to my eye looked fine, but apparently the service guys don't get balls seperately, and since the whole assembly was just 350 bucks (the labor was 400) I couldn't be fussed anyways.

Bike feels great now. Light. Predictable. Holds its line with no hands perfectly. No sudden dipping. Son seemed happy as well. Came back from the test ride saying "its too light". I told him that's the brand new front tyre finally showing itself, with new cone and bearings. The service guy said exactly the same when asked.

Cheers, Doc

Good to know Doc I had very similar symptoms but to a smaller degree which is why I suspected the bad steering stem bearings on your bike. These bikes come with either poor bearings or they are poorly greased from the factory. After taking apart and greasing the bearings, I still seem to have a minor head shake at 90+ speeds. It is really minor but has been bugging me for a while. I'll also go with a new set of bearings soon to eliminate the possible culprits.

[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by ebonho

...

The cone balls were fully rusty and pitted. ...

Originally Posted by b16h22

... These bikes come with either poor bearings or they are poorly greased from the factory..

A big contributor to this problem that is often overlooked is jet washing. When the jet is directed at the bearing races, the water has so much energy that the grease gets washed away. Service centres don't have properly trained washing operators and that is the root cause.

The only way to avoid this happening is to decline washing during servicing. Hand washing or a supervised jet washing is the way to go.

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

A big contributor to this problem that is often overlooked is jet washing. When the jet is directed at the bearing races, the water has so much energy that the grease gets washed away. Service centres don't have properly trained washing operators and that is the root cause.

The only way to avoid this happening is to decline washing during servicing. Hand washing or a supervised jet washing is the way to go.

You are right. The previous owner had a pressure washer and I can see the detrimental effects on all parts of the bike. Like bent oil cooler fins, rusty cone set, rust inside parts way earlier than usual. I'm a big advocate for hand washing bikes.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by b16h22

You are right. The previous owner had a pressure washer and I can see the detrimental effects on all parts of the bike. Like bent oil cooler fins, rusty cone set, rust inside parts way earlier than usual. I'm a big advocate for hand washing bikes.

But when you leave the bike at the service center for a service or other work, they wash it in your absence. I absolutely hate pressure washing myself. Only used it when the bike is really muddy, like big gobs of mud stuck in the swingarm etc. Never otherwise. A garden hose pinched between thumb and forefinger max. Otherwise my trusty bucket and suds and microfibre.

Cheers, Doc

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by ebonho

But when you leave the bike at the service center for a service or other work, they waah it in your absence. I absolutely hate pressure washing myself. Only used it when the bike is really muddy, like big gobs of bud stuck in the swingarm etc. Never otherwise. A garden hose pinched between thumb and forefinger max. Otherwise my trusty bucket and suds and microfibre.

Cheers, Doc

Well my bike doesn't see service centers Doc I agree that you can't keep a eye on it always. And occasional pressure washing shouldn't be an issue. But when you own a pressure washer like the previous owner of my bike, you tend to be very enthusiastic about washing the bike with it always. It took me half a day to bend back 75% of the fins on my oil cooler .

[b16h22]

I was looking for a short windscreen for my Gixxer naked, purely for aesthetic purposes. When I bought the bike it already came with a retrofitted Burgman windscreen that was quite big. It was a clean install and I rode with it for a while. But it was creating quite a bit of buffeting due to the size and the rather flat shape of it. It was never made for a naked motorcycle's air flow.



The Burgman screen

I was looking for possible solutions to replace the big screen with a smaller one so that the buffeting and dirty air was reduced and the front of the Gixxer didn't look so bare and boring. Came across this TVS OE screen for RTR 200s on amazon. Made some blind calculations on the size and ordered it. It was very affordable at 190INR and it was really well made.

https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B08...?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Had to make two extra holes that aligned with the holes on the number plate holder of the Gixxer.



Two long 40MM m6 bolts for extra support and holding the number plate.



Initially tried to piece the mounting hardware together with the stuff that came with the screen but later changed to these. Two M6 30mm SS bolts and nuts with two M6 10mm aluminium spacers and a few washers. These mount the screen through the holes on the side of the number plate holder. Two rubber bushes that came with earlier windscreen installation to dampen the number plate vibrations.



How it fits. The spacers were necessary as the windscreen was wider than the number plate holder by about 20+mm. This however is a sturdy setup.



How the screen looks after the installation. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. It looks like it was meant to be there and OE . I have been riding with it for two months now and it is very sturdy and has not vibrated loose. The only negative is the barely visible TVS branding that is noticeable at some lighting conditions.

Few more photos from different angles

[sukiwa]

Originally Posted by b16h22

Initially tried to piece the mounting hardware together with the stuff that came with the screen but later changed to these. Two M6 30mm SS bolts and nuts with two M6 10mm aluminium spacers and a few washers.

Spacers is a nice touch.

The only negative is the barely visible TVS branding that is noticeable at some lighting conditions.

Suzuki shouldn't mind TVS branding, they were partners in India couple of decades back :-).