[Gansan]

^^180 kg is by no means light. Relative to the other RE bikes, it is light that is all. I felt the weight during the test ride, especially while taking a U turn at a signal. As I said earlier, I was test riding it for my son and I usually ride a Splendor, though I am no stranger to Bullets and RD 350s in the past. For a city bike, the Hunter is almost double the weight of the Splendor. But I did not feel the weight while test riding the FZ 250. I felt otherwise the Hunter is packaged well,will appeal to people who take all the nitty gritties of any Enfield as "legacy/heritage" and sell very well. It does.

Btw my son felt the weight too, didn't like it and opted for the Apache RTR 200 4v.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by tarmacnaut

Ronin is a TVS jugaad which still uses the bored out, modified 'Suzuki' Fiero's engine from the 2000s. The bike looks like a toy, put together by kids.

I wouldn't say that. I checked out the Ronin too and liked what I saw. I voted for Hunter as it was the best package overall in my eyes. I will not buy the Hunter. But I have half a mind to buy the Ronin though I think it may feel a bit small for me. As far as "technology" goes, the Hunter has nothing to write home about either. I actually feel the Ronin has an edge in that department. Ronin engine's base may be the old Fiero engine, but it has been worked upon a lot over the years. TVS has racing lineage, remember? Their track experience is carried over to their road bikes.

A 75 year old former colleague of mine got bitten by the motorbike bug after more than three and a half decades, recently bought the Ronin and toured solo by it from Alwar (Rajasthan) to Chennai and back, taking different routes both ways, covering a total of 6000 km. The bike performed flawlessly and proved extremely reliable. I had posted the details and photos in the Ronin thread.

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by Gansan

I wouldn't say that. I checked out the Ronin too and liked what I saw. Ronin engine's base may be the old Fiero engine, but it has been worked upon a lot over the years. TVS has racing lineage, remember? Their track experience is carried over to their road bikes.

Agreed Sir, Looks are subjective. Actually I referred to the 'toy'ish looks of the Ronin and not how it rides. Others in this forum and outside too, also feel the bike has a confusing design and does not follow a single philosophy. It is supposed to be a production version of the 'Zeppelin' concept, which I really liked. But Ronin is no where elegant as the 'Zeppelin'.

The Zeppelin


The Ronin

Originally Posted by Gansan

Ronin engine's base may be the old Fiero engine, but it has been worked upon a lot over the years. TVS has racing lineage, remember?

TVS lineage is hard to miss. But what happened to their BMW partnership? It has been almost a decade and TVS still cannot develop their own higher capacity engine from grounds up. As much as I don't like Royal Enfield for their reliability and over-marketing, they have all new engines now built from ground up, they even have a 650cc twin. That was the disappointment I had with TVS.

BTW, I am definitely not for the Hunter 350. It feels too small, heavy and cramped. The major issue I have with the Hunter is the poor ground clearance for city usage, I have already witnessed few Hunters scraping the speed breakers hard, here in Bangalore. Hunter is being heavily marketed through all possible media like youtube, instagram and RE marketing team deserves award for making this compromised bike a success.

[mac13]

The Hunter seems to be a decent bike though with nothing special about it. But it's appeal to the mass market shows in the sales figures. It could be more to do with it being an RE product than with the actual bike itself.

Originally Posted by tarmacnaut

Suzuki VStrom is a proper ADV and a global product which oozes quality. It is a true BIG bike that punches above its segment when it comes to road presence, comfort and touring capability.

When you say the VStrom 250 punches above its segment does it mean the KTM390 ADV or the 650cc segment?
I haven’t ridden the bike yet but the poor front suspension travel makes me wonder if it can be taken off the tarmac without worries.
Also, I wonder how it compares against its direct rival, the KTM259 ADV.

[mh09ad5578]

I'm surprised at reactions to the Hunter 350, it is currently the lightest bike that RE manufactures. They did a brilliant job of making a modern looking bike while using most parts of the 350 classic platform ( yes it does look like a Triumph clone) . We see lakhs of 350 classics being used as daily drivers then what's issue with this? It gives more choice to the consumer who may not want a mass produced retro modern bike. Royal Enfield has come a long way in fit and finish and factory customization and come what may the purists say this is going to be another cash cow for them with minimal investments in platform sharing. If you watch the reviews abroad (mostly UK ones) people seem pretty excited about these too. I think RE did a brilliant job and this will checkmate the Honda highness too as it gives one more modern option to the buyer of this category. I do think this will do well and hence see that logic running in the poll too.

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by mac13

When you say the VStrom 250 punches above its segment does it mean the KTM390 ADV or the 650cc segment?

Bigger ADVs in general, but ONLY in terms of the 3 parameters I mentioned, not in terms of performance

Road Presence - Its dimensions and seat height are closer to VStrom 650 and has the unmistakable ADV styling. The seat height is commanding at 835mm and you sit much taller than the Himalayan (800mm) and Yezdi ADV (810mm), but KTMs are at 855mm, so they should be commanding as well.

Comfort - The bike has outstanding comfort for both rider and pillion. I have ridden 1000+kms now, the seat is much better than its segment rivals like KTM 250, Himalyan and I feel like sitting on a bigger bike.

Touring - This is only in Indian context. It has more than enough top end for our Indian highways to tour across the country. FalconRiders, an youtuber had switched from his Versys 650 to VStrom SX and toured Ladakh. Below is his video,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4QzpuZwFM0

Originally Posted by mac13

I haven’t ridden the bike yet but the poor front suspension travel makes me wonder if it can be taken off the tarmac without worries.

Take a test ride, the suspension setup is more than sufficient for off the tarmac duties, like broken roads and dirt roads and with the hefty ground clearance, I no longer worry about unscientific speed breakers or bumps.

Originally Posted by mac13

Also, I wonder how it compares against its direct rival, the KTM259 ADV.

I felt the KTM ADV 250 to be impractical for City Usage as the suspension way more stiffer than VStrom SX at lower city speeds, but out on the highways it could be slightly better.
For a detailed comparison, you can check this video posted by an ADV 250 owner on how the VStrom SX compares to KTM ADV 250

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLh8Lm76I7k

[bf1983]

Originally Posted by tarmacnaut

I own the V-Strom SX and have completed 1000 kms.

There is no magic 'threshold' like 120mm travel is road bike, if the suspension is tuned well with let's say heavier fork oil, it can handle bad roads. KTM ADV 250 has more travel than VStrom, but it is much stiff at lower city speeds and you can feel every bump. In the end I found the VStrom suspension to be much better.

You are right that there isn't a threshold or anything but all the Indian ADV bikes have higher suspension travel and 120mm suspension travel is found on almost every street naked available.

Originally Posted by tarmacnaut

Looking at the global ADV market, ADVs should be mandatorily tourers but the offroading part is optional. The VStrom 650, Versys 650, Multistrada etc. are all road biased, that does not mean these are not ADVs.

Correct but all of the above have much higher suspension travel to better tackle bad roads.

Originally Posted by tarmacnaut

Going by this, V-Strom SX is a true ADV in every sense with the ergonomics, seat height, dimesions and ground clearance closer to ADVs from upper segment

Coming to the Gixxer 250 comparison, Did you take a test ride? The difference between Gixxer and VStrom is Night and Day.

Below are the differences between the Gixxer 250 and the VStrom apart from the only difference of "ground clearance" you mentioned. I had researched this when choosing the VStrom against Gixxer

1. The suspension setup is NOT the same, the rear unit is entirely different with 145 mm of travel and the front has different internals with 20% more travel, Gixxer has only 100mm of travel, this was measured by Shinyo from Japan who did a scrambler build on Gixxer 250. The bike can handle bad roads and dirt roads just fine.

2. The sub frame is completely different from Gixxer 250 and is reinforced to minimize movement of luggage in rough roads and has a much wider/comfortable seat for both rider and pillion. Infact this bike has the most comfortable seats and I have written about this in my other post.

3. The swing arm is different and is a whopping 10cms longer than Gixxer 250

4. The front is raked out which along with the longer swingarm results in longer wheelbase translating to better stability off road and in the open highways

5. The front has a 19" inch wheel and both wheels come with dual purpose tyres and provide plenty grip on bad roads and the bike is pretty confidence inspiring even on roads ridden with gravel.

6. The brakes are new and bigger compared to Gixxer 250

7. The Ground clearance is 205mm which is same as many bigger ADVs and higher than even VStrom 650

8. It comes factory fitted with an usable windscreen and a luggage carrier.

9. The seating position is much more upright and relaxed.

10. The footpegs are set forward and are offroad ready with removable rubber pads. The footpegs are also made of steel and are welded to avoid breakage off road, unlike the Gixxer with aluminium footpegs.

10. The bike is a proper 'BIG' Bike and the dimensions are closer to 650/800 cc ADVs and the seat height of 835 mm gives you a true commanding view while Gixxer is a sports bike

And why do you think the engine should be different? Gixxer 250 engine is a gem with loads of torque low down.

Suzuki hasn't disclosed the rear suspension travel so we don't really know how much it is. I was happy with the comfort of the SX but I was pretty disappointed with the suspension which has probably clouded my judgement of this bike as to me personally I think of ADV bikes as having plush suspension with generous amounts of suspension travel. That's why I was never a fan of the KTM adventure bikes either

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by bf1983

You are right that there isn't a threshold or anything but all the Indian ADV bikes have higher suspension travel and 120mm suspension travel is found on almost every street naked available.

The street naked Gixxer 250 has only 100mm of travel. And it is not just the travel, the damping and rebound has to be good. Travel is just only part, if the damping is poor, you will lose all of the travel just by sitting on it. VStrom has good damping and does not bottom out.

Originally Posted by bf1983

Correct but all of the above have much higher suspension travel to better tackle bad roads.

What about the weight? VStrom 650 has only 149mm travel, which is not that high for its weight of 216 kgs.
Kawasaki Versys 300, which weighs 184kgs and is a direct competitor to VStrom SX overseas has just 130mm travel in front.
VStrom SX has more than enough travel for its featherweight of 167 kgs, to tackle bad roads and I am using it for my daily commute in the broken roads of bangalore.

Originally Posted by bf1983

Suzuki hasn't disclosed the rear suspension travel so we don't really know how much it is.

You can find in the manual, this was shared by Sebring in his ownership thread. Rear travel is 143mm.

Originally Posted by bf1983

I was happy with the comfort of the SX but I was pretty disappointed with the suspension which has probably clouded my judgement of this bike as to me personally I think of ADV bikes as having plush suspension with generous amounts of suspension travel. That's why I was never a fan of the KTM adventure bikes either

To each his own, IMO the VStrom SX has more than enough suspension travel and damping, to handle bad roads and along with the dual purpose tyres it provides plenty grip over loose rocks and gravel. It is pretty confidence inspiring in my experience and I ride it every day.

Unless you want to do off-road rally or 10 feet jumps the suspension will be just fine. It does exactly what it was marketed, handles unpaved roads and flat dirt roads without any drama.

[bhansali_hardik]

Hi,

While I'm sure this is not the right thread to ask this question, but here I'm hoping to get some traction here. For the issues of buying a 2 wheeler in Bangalore right now. (Not sure of other states and cities)

I have owned a fair share of two wheelers in a decade, Honda Dio, Suzuki Access, Classic 350 and a Dominar but never came across this situation.

I'm in the market again to buy another gearless 2 wheeler for the folks at home and even though I would want an Ather the recharging hassles and compliance required for it in my apartment complex with the additional clause for Tenants made me give up on Ather for time being.

So narrowed it down to the ntorq and I'm baffled at the charges which the dealer is "Demanding" if I need a two wheeler and they are confidently telling that go to any dealer you will have to pay them
1) Handling Charges
2) Mandatory accessories (Which is a service charge and there are no actual accessories which they provide)

It's not a huge amount but it's not fair and it's not legal as well. I cannot put off my purchase forever, I will have to buy one.

But I need advice, how do I go about this? I've always played by the rule and I understand the things around/system does not support people like myself and it's just 3.5~4 thousand INR pay and move on would not be an acceptable answer for me!

There are 2 ways in which I think I can address this :

1) Reach out the company and fight for my rights.
I have already tweeted and dropped a mail to TVS, but honestly I do not think they are going to help. It's one 2 wheeler sale vs their rapport with the dealer and to top it off, there is no way dealers are pulling this off without the companies knowledge.

2) Buy it and then sue the dealer.
I'm ready to take this up and fight for my rights, this will have multiple road blocks but I will have the patience and energy to take this through.
However, will need inputs on what documents and invoices should I be taking from the Dealer to have a strong case against them. (The mandatory accessories which they are asking money for will have obvious no actual invoice as the dealer told it's actually a service charge but we show it as accessories )

Third and the most easy way out for me would be, if any of the folks on this forum can help me procure one and I get to pay what I'm legally supposed to and move on with the system "chalta hai" but at least I'm not a part of it!

Thanks in Advance if you have any pointers to get this moving for me!

[The_Medic]

Originally Posted by mh09ad5578

I'm surprised at reactions to the Hunter 350, it is currently the lightest bike that RE manufactures. .

The lightest bike by RE is heavier by a decent margin than the heaviest bike by KTM. It's a very very poor achievement when compared to where others manufacturers have been for a very long time now.

[KPR]

RE hunter has very good J series engine. No doubt. But considering my riding experience,
1. It has very very hard clutch lever. The lever itself is bulky to hold with fingers.
2. Heaviness of bike is felt while riding around in traffic.
3. Rear set foot pegs (problem for me as I'm driving a TB500)
4. Although many praise the exhaust note I find it a bit irritating after some continuous driving.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by The_Medic

The lightest bike by RE is heavier by a decent margin than the heaviest bike by KTM. It's a very very poor achievement when compared to where others manufacturers have been for a very long time now.

Different design ethos buddy. Apples and oranges!

I doubt RE wants to manufacture as lightweight and expensive a bike like KTM does. Forget RE - Even Bajaj doesn't, even for products with derived engines!

Reason - Lightweight and sturdy materials end up pushing the prices high. European brands (Not just KTM, others like Triumph and Ducati too) tend to be lighter in weight and higher in prices. Even the Japanese bikes are usually heavier than these Europeans, not because of a lack of technical know-how, but tradeoffs for other priorities. Some brands even don't want that lightweight and edgy feel on purpose.

Its not without reason that a 349cc from RE starts at 1.5L whereas a 373cc from KTM costs 2.96!

[The_Medic]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Different design ethos buddy. Apples and oranges!

I doubt RE wants to manufacture as lightweight and expensive bike like KTM does. Forget RE - Even Bajaj doesn't, even for products with derived engines!

I fully understand the different design ethos, buddy. And that is precisely what I am trying to convey. Hunter is an apple labelled by RE as an orange. It is not a city bike. It is a heavy, poorly suspended for city use motorcycle with pathetic brakes.

P.S. Dominar is the only bike with KTM derived engine and its goal was to be a power cruiser replica. Can it do better with less weight? Of course yes. Which bike won't? But is it diminishing what the bike is supposed to be? Absolutely not.

Reason - Lightweight and sturdy materials end up pushing the prices high. European brands (Not just KTM, others like Triumph and Ducati too) tend to be lighter in weight and higher in prices. Even the Japanese bikes are usually heavier than these Europeans, not because of a lack of technical know-how, but tradeoffs for other priorities.

Its not without reason that a 349cc from RE starts at 1.5L whereas a 373cc from KTM costs 2.96!

Errrr, no. KTM RC 125 weighs in at 160kgs and makes less power than Yamaha R15 V4 that makes more power and weighs in at only 142 kgs. While being priced even better. Your European vs Japanese philosophy doesn't fly here.

And coming to the Hunter. It is promoted as a city bike but the xpulse accelerates just as well, brakes better, handles city roads in a far more superior fashion with a ridiculously good FE while undercutting the hunter by a good margin in n both price and weight. And it isn't supposed to be a city bike. It handles highway duties decently and absolutely nails the intent of being an off road micro ADV.

I don't know about the 200T 4v as i have not ridden it but given the experience on the xpulse, i can safely assume it'll be even better in the city considering that is it's intent where the tubeless tyre advantage of hunter will be taken away as well. For all practical purposes, a far better city bike. You don't need the torque surfing character of the hunter for city use. A peppy engine is better. Hero's 200 mill makes the bike just as quick as the hunter even with a 150cc disadvantage. (Again, disproving your materials/ manufacturing theory). It is because Hero has has designed the bike very well. The only thing going for RE hunter is that sticker and a good looking face. A honey trap for consumers to buy a comparatively cheaper RE product.

P.s again.. i am not going to compare it to TVS Ronin. That has been done to death.

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by The_Medic

Errrr, no. KTM RC 125 weighs in at 160kgs and makes less power than Yamaha R15 V4 that makes more power and weighs in at only 142 kgs. While being priced even better. Your European vs Japanese philosophy doesn't fly here.

True, the Japanese bikes from Honda and Suzuki that compete with KTM are also lighter, this logic definitely does not fly.

KTM Duke 250 (170 kgs) => Honda CB300f (153 kgs), Suzuki Gixxer 250 (156 kgs)

KTM Adventure 250 (177 kgs) => Suzuki V-Strom SX (167 kgs)

This is just another attempt to somehow justify the 'heaviness' of the Hunter by bringing in the price factor.

BTW, even if you consider the price, 1.49 lakh is only the starting price of the base Retro variant. The Metro and Rebel variants, which people actually buy, cost 1.67 and 1.72 lakhs. This is ex-showroom price, on road will touch 2.17 lakh for Metro Rebel in Bangalore. So, not that cheap.