[no_fear]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

My Service Advisor informed me that their team had followed all the steps recommended by the central Suzuki technical team. I was asked to come check if the excess vibrations issue on the motorcycle was resolved.

As per the showroom manager and the service advisor, below are the steps that they were instructed to take
- Check suspension mounting and balancing
- Check swing arm alignment is correct on both sides
- Check front sprocket
- Check chain slack
- Perform wheel balancing for the rear (wasnt needed, as I had balanced the wheels at the tire change which was at 5K kms) and wheel bearing lubrication
- Torque everything as per OEM specification

@Neil - why are they checking suspension mounting, swing arm alignment, front sprocket and chain, when these individual items would not be the main contributors of the vibration at 3500-5000 rpm?

Reading your thread - the vibrations occur at a specific rpm band and crop up at a random interval, not linked to the mileage of the bike. That rules out swing arm, sprocket or chain, as they will be conducting vibration at any rpm, not the specific band.

Has any service person considered looking into the engine cam shaft?

A camshaft with a runout or a manufacturing defect will cause engine vibration. It's likely Suzuki has a bad batch of camshafts. Replacing them means opening each engine.

[shancz]

Agree with no_fear.
To me the list from "central Suzuki technical team" seems as if they're trying to wish away any/the issue with the engine and hoping that something else somehow fixes/masks it.

This reaffirms my hypothesis of a design flaw. Now I doubt its a premature failure as almost every bike has it, even new test bikes or under 2k kms run bikes have it too.

Now that they've tried everything else, they have to address the elephant in the room, fingers crossed and good luck

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by shancz

This reaffirms my hypothesis of a design flaw. Now I doubt its a premature failure as almost every bike has it, even new test bikes or under 2k kms run bikes have it too.

I am not sure how this reaffirms your hypothesis of a design flaw. no_fear mentions that this could be a 'manufacturing' defect, that is, a batch of engines could have got a 'bad' batch of camshafts.

It is not like the bike was launched yesterday. The export numbers of Gixxer 250 twins were in 1000-3000 range every month, from 2019, and if this was a 'design' flaw it would have been reported widely by now. The bike has a very good reputation overseas in Japan. It is only a sales dud here in India.

And Not every bike has this issue, like you stated. I extensively test rode a VStrom SX which had run 14000 kms (same engine as Gixxer 250), rented from Royal Brothers, Bangalore. There was no 'early' vibrations issue and the test ride bikes which I tested in showroom were also fine. I posted the details in my post in the VStrom thread back in October. Few others in team-bhp have also ridden the same bike.

This seems to be a manufacturing defect which Suzuki has tracked down poorly and seems many bikes were left out in the recall after lockdown (in Mid 2021), could be due the COVID pandemic at the time but that could never be an excuse.

Hope Suzuki rolls up its sleeve and addresses the issue and if this is indeed a camshaft defect in many bikes, Suzuki should replace the engines under warranty, like they have done for few others in this forum.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

For now, like everyone else who is glued to this thread, Im waiting and watching.
Once again, the ball is in Suzuki's court.

Originally Posted by shancz

This reaffirms my hypothesis of a design flaw. Now I doubt its a premature failure as almost every bike has it, even new test bikes or under 2k kms run bikes have it too.

Doesn't the VStrom 250 share the same engine? I just looked through the specs and both seems to be using the same engine. If its a design flaw or an engine batch manufacturing flaw some VStroms should be affected too? Any reported issues on the VStrom 250 motorcycles, past or present?

There is a happy ownership thread of the Vstrom (A STROM is brewing | 'Yalla', my Suzuki V-Strom 250 SX ownership review) which you probably know already. But if Vstroms are not affected what is different between the two; is it chassis and mounting point/type? Both have balancer shafts?

[shancz]

Originally Posted by tarmacnaut

- I am not sure how this reaffirms your hypothesis of a design flaw. no_fear mentions that this could be a 'manufacturing' defect, that is, a batch of engines could have got a 'bad' batch of camshafts.

…

- And Not every bike has this issue, like you stated.

- Apologies if it instigated anyone in the wrong way but like I mentioned it is still a hypothesis which is well short of even a theory, let alone a fact. Most likely I would be wrong like your counter cases suggest but I will let Suzuki establish the facts.
My first impression was that this was somehow missed in the recall but since the ASC denied that and the "central team" started on a different resolution path that forces me to leave that stream of thought.
Goes without saying, I am not informed enough to know the causes so its plainly guesswork driven by what has been done and what has been denied by the ASC/Suzuki themselves.

- I meant "every bike" that the post #30 mentioned, that was the context. I could have worded it better though, apologies for that.

Originally Posted by Sankar

Doesn't the VStrom 250 share the same engine? Any reported issues on the VStrom 250 motorcycles, past or present?

Please read post #30.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by shancz

Please read post #30.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

- Even the brand new Gixxer 250 in their showroom has similar vibrations.
- The VStrom 250s dont seem to have the issue. (Again, its a very low seller in Kerala, so sample size is negligible)

However, I remember finding vibrations in the brand new VStrom 250 test ride motorcycle. I went back to my post on the VStrom 250 thread (Suzuki V-Strom 250 SX, now launched at Rs. 2.12 lakhs) to see if I had made a mention of it. Sure enough, below is what I had written on the 2nd of June 2022.

Originally Posted by Mr.Bentley

My 2021MY Gixxer SF150 vibrates during 4500-5500RPM - felt on handlebars, fairing and footpegs. If there is a pillion with me, the vibrations are quite less, but there.

With the issue during specific RPM, and its un-noticing vibrations with pillion ON, I thought this was because of some resonance issue. I tried putting some weights and m-seal at few places. It didn't work.

The vibrations do not occur at usual city speeds (I shift just after I feel the vibrations). And in odd occasions where I rev up, vibrations go away after 5500-6000RPM and its smooth as before.

On Gixxer its @4500-5500RPM and on Vstrom its @6000RPM. It seems like resonance getting amplified at certain RPM bands due to the difference in the chassis/mountings between these two bikes. With a large enough damper (pillion) applying weight (50/60kg?) on the tail end of the chassis and the two foot pegs the vibrations seems to get dampened or cease beyond @6000RPM on the gixxer which is the vibration starting point on the vstrom. Pillion applied a large amount of weight over a wide area to minimise the vibes so to replicate that without knowing the amount of weight and where to apply it adding additional weights will not be an effective damper.

Thats why I asked whats the difference between these two bikes. Are chassis mounting points etc same? Rubber bush/solid mounts etc. Chassis type? Full cradle of engine as stressed member etc. Do both engines have balance shafts? Because in the past Suzuki has removed balance shafts from one of their 150cc engines sold here.

I think this same engine mounted in a different Suzuki other than gixxer and vstrom may produce vibes at some other RPM. I think it could be the engine+chassis combo that is cause. If balancer shaft is present and is timed correctly to the crank there is nothing much to be done there. If the problem was with the engine it should have been caught during the testing on the engine dyno. Just my thoughts.

Originally Posted by shancz

Sorry but I am not eligible to answer those questions, that's why I didn't quote this questions
Someone better informed can answer those.

Your guesses are better than mine though. Logically they make sense but again I am not aware of the facts.

No probs, I was probing the differences between both bikes in chassis since both seems to share same engine. Not close to the motorcycles since many years coz can't ride them now. So just thinking out loud.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Sankar

Thats why I asked whats the difference between these two bikes. Are chassis mounting points etc same? Rubber bush/solid mounts etc. Chassis type? Full cradle of engine as stressed member etc. Do both engines have balance shafts? Because in the past Suzuki has removed balance shafts from one of their 150cc engines sold here.

Sorry but I am not eligible to answer those questions, that's why I didn't quote these questions
Someone better informed can answer those.

Your guesses are better than mine though. Logically they make sense but again I am not aware of the facts.

[neil.jericho]

Here is the latest update
- After my motorcycle was left at the Suzuki SVC on the 7th of December, a technical team from the company (they happened to be in the state) visited the SVC, and provided the instructions to the team, which I listed in my update on post #30 (Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250). Yes, those were ridiculous instructions!
- Next, the quagmire that is Suzuki's "internal processes" reared their ugly head. It took the company exactly 15 days to courier the vibration test tool from Kozhikode to Kochi. I could have walked from Kochi to Kozhikode, collected the tool and walked back, in less than a week......
- Today, I received a call from the showroom manager, in which he confirmed that Suzuki has accepted the replacement of the balancer shaft, due to it being the cause of the excess vibrations (more on this, later in the post).
- Once again, before any conspiracy theorists start claiming that my motorcycle was part of the recall campaign of the 199 bikes identified by Suzuki, let me state that it isnt. However, the solution remains the same as what was recommended for those 199 motorcycles. You can draw your own conclusions on whether the recall only impacted 199 motorcycles (as announced) or if Suzuki has swept things under the carpet.
- The good news is that the Suzuki plant remains shut from the 20th of December, for year end maintenance. Hence, the part cannot be sourced from them. Why is that good news, you ask? It would have taken another 21 days for the part to reach Kochi from the plant. Dont ask ....
- The better news is that the part is available at a Suzuki SVC in Tamil Nadu. Efforts are being made to get it couriered from there on Monday, which means that the part should arrive in Cochin, before the year end.

I must make special mention of the complete lack of support from Suzuki, as a company, on multiple levels.
- On the 7th of December, I sent an email to the customer care ID that is listed on their website.
- After gathering some more details, the ticket number CAS-328536-R9P8S4 was registered on the 10th of December.
- Since then, I have sent 6 follow up emails, asking for an update from the company. The total number of replies from Suzuki - Zero
- Through multiple stakeholders, I requested the local Area Service Manager to get in touch with me, to discuss the issue. The total number of calls from the Suzuki ASM - Zero
- It is clear that neither the ASM nor the company were really putting in any effort to resolving this in a timely manner. God bless Suzuki owners in Kerala!
- The SVC folks were helpful and trying their best, but their hands were tied by Suzuki's backward thinking processes and lack of technical oversight / support. I dont find fault with the SVC folks, at all. They are as eager as me, to get the bike back in top condition, so that I can resume my touring on it.
- After escalating strongly to Suzuki folks who arent even related to the service side of things, there was some progress today (day 17). Without that, I would have gone at least another week, without any further developments. I shudder to think what other people will go through, when they face the same issue.

What could and should have been a fairly simple process, has been drawn out into a messy episode. I can confidently say that had this been a Royal Enfield motorcycle, the issue would have been sorted out, to my satisfaction, within a week. Sadly, Suzuki doesnt seem to care about customers, once the sale is made. Suzuki's systematic apathy to customers will not go unnoticed by the rider community. On one hand, their sales division is moving heaven and earth, to try and improve their numbers through different initiatives. On the other hand, their service management team is actively sabotaging all the hard work done by their counterparts in the sales side. The big loser in all this, is Suzuki, and nobody else.

Hopefully, Suzuki acknowledges the fact that this issue is widespread and does the needful for all its other Gixxer / SF 250 customers, who are facing this issue. While they are at it, maybe they can hire some interns to reply to emails from customers.....

[mac13]

I'm appalled at the widespread apathy among manufacturers when it comes to service. From shoddy service to outright dishonesty, there seems to be no end to this. Reading horror stories about the Triumph service would be enough to keep one away from the brand. And now it's even the more accessible better bikes which are being put into the avoid bracket because of a poor response from the manufacturer.

As a customer who trusted the brand and purchased a bike made by them, I'd expect the manufacturer to be supportive in sorting out problems but instead it's the other way round here, they are hell bent on making things worse for you and regret your purchase.

[amvj]

When it comes to service Maruti Suzuki is quite famous for their customer centric approach, but it seems Suzuki motorcycle division is exact opposite. No one will know about this without Team-bhp. I am sure still some Suzuki fan boys will come and try to defend it. On the other hand, we see even worse instances with Honda bigwing spare parts delays. That requires a separate thread itself.

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Here is the latest update
- After my motorcycle was left at the Suzuki SVC on the 7th of December, a technical team from the company (they happened to be in the state) visited the SVC, and provided the instructions to the team, which I listed in my update on post #30 (Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250). Yes, those were ridiculous instructions!

Sad that this is how SMIPL takes care of even customers of its premium products. Takes away the lustre from a great product.

That said, it doesn't appear that Suzuki's company technicians are taking an unsound approach to resolving your issue here. I've experienced this in my old suzuki. Handlebar and fork clamps, fuel tank, plastic panels, rear suspension bolts being loose and causing vibrations (all at different instances though). My bike is still extremely buzzy at the pillion seat, due to broken panel mounts under the seat.

Probably having eliminated those kinds of possibilities on yours, they may have gone on to deeper causes and identified it to the balancer shaft and are moving to replace it. (Or atleast by you documenting this in such a detailed manner, they can't afford to ignore the problem like they may have with other customers.) In any case, it appears to be the commonplace and commonsense approach to problem solving as far as vehicle issues, which is, when teh problem is unclear, start with smaller and more common causes and move onto bigger ones as you eliminate them.

But yes, it's totally unacceptable that they've been taking this long to sort this out. That seems to be a suzuki trait though because even here in KA, in the past, I've had to wait for more than a month without a vehicle to ride for getting a simple job as a fuel tank replacement under warranty done.

Hope things get sorted out for good on your bike.

[edunata]

Originally Posted by amvj

When it comes to service Maruti Suzuki is quite famous for their customer centric approach

This is a myth, which may be last for some more years. Myself, as a an owner of a Maruti Suzuki product, like to disagree with the haloed "customer centric approach of Maruti".
They are like any other service center. During the last service I have faced all type of problems with them. Like, adding many unnecessary items in the bill, People unware about the spare parts, unavailability of correct spares, no value for customers time, adding plain corporation water in battery and as a diluter of coolant, washing cars with dirty water. During last service when I pointed out some problems, they simply said "customers are not allowed in the Service Area".
So, after that day I bowed out from the service center and never returned there.

[carthick1000]

One more brand added to my no-go list. Thanks for sharing.

[no_fear]

@Neil, dropping one of Costanza's pearls of wisdom..this sums up Suzuki's attitude to customer service.

I know you are a Seinfeld fan. Could not resist..

[scorpian]

Originally Posted by carthick1000

One more brand added to my no-go list. Thanks for sharing.

Just to add, i own a Suzuki access, serviced at showroom and maintained by them from day 1 of purchase.
I face a oil drinking issue which started at 12000kms, i use the bike very carefully and till date i haven't been able to get clarity as to why it started drinking oil despite being maintained by Suzuki themselves. So no more Suzuki two wheelers for me.
On the other hand my 2005 karizma runs like a dream, gives good mileage has run a tad over 77000 kms and has no issues whatsoever, only money spent is on periodic replacement of oil and air filter. Cheapest till date to maintain. Truly fill it and ride it bike.